Vigile Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Many times on this board and in life I've seen the question "How can one choose moral values without god?" or something to the same effect. Today on BBC I was watching news about Muslim riots in Greece over claims that a Greek policeman tore up and stepped on the Koran. I don't have the quote online, but a Muslim interviewed made the following statement: "You can kill my wife, you can kill my sons and daughters, but this is the limit..." How can a person who holds religious relics and ideologies up to higher value than human life, moreover the lives of his/her very loved ones, ever be truly moral? This is distorted morality. So I would ask "how can one truly choose moral values with god? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 ...to which you would get the goo' ol' combo as "reply": evasions, silence, or insults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Vigile, I agree with you (as usual). I truly think that religion as it works today corrupts morality rather than help it. In a sense I do believe religion did help basic morality to work in the past, but now, in our time, when we have a better understanding of the world and individual rights, religion seems to hold us back and constantly erode the work people do to improve life. I just can't accept this prejudice, hateful, mind-numbing preaching from old dusty books anymore. Something has to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
godlessgrrl Posted May 23, 2009 Share Posted May 23, 2009 Frankly I think divine endorsement for one's actions creates a vile morality indeed. I've dealt with Christians who like to believe that atheism is morally bankrupt and who will cite the whole "if there is no god, then all things are permitted" thing; but they fail to realize that with the addition of a deity, all things are permitted provided you can convince enough people that it's what god wants. Religion provides not only the possibility for all sorts of actions, but a justification for them that isn't easily refuted. What's also frightening is that the very fact that god allegedly wants something to happen puts a moral blessing on it, for a lot of believers. It's as if the thing that makes something okay is simply god's desire for that thing. So if god orders the genocide of an entire people, god's will is what makes it morally good. I think these things enable atrocities in a way that a lack of religious conviction can't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Net Eng Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 Frankly I think divine endorsement for one's actions creates a vile morality indeed. I've dealt with Christians who like to believe that atheism is morally bankrupt and who will cite the whole "if there is no god, then all things are permitted" thing; but they fail to realize that with the addition of a deity, all things are permitted provided you can convince enough people that it's what god wants. This reminds of this clip from Kingdom of Heaven. Granted this is a work of fiction but the scene illustrates the point. A christian co-worker of mine started a conversation concerning the origins of morality. To him morality must come from a higher source than us mere humans. He further stated: "If I didn't think God was watching my every move and that He would hold me to account someday I think I'd be a criminal." Since he had converted in his twenties I asked if was a criminal in his younger days. No was the reply. Hmmmm. I told him that he had been acting moral without God and that his conversion just added a layer of divine guilt and anxiety. That set off a bit of a firestorm. I won't bore you with the rest the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted May 24, 2009 Share Posted May 24, 2009 What's also frightening is that the very fact that god allegedly wants something to happen puts a moral blessing on it, for a lot of believers. It's as if the thing that makes something okay is simply god's desire for that thing. So if god orders the genocide of an entire people, god's will is what makes it morally good. See the crusades... "Deus vult!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted May 24, 2009 Author Share Posted May 24, 2009 I think these things enable atrocities in a way that a lack of religious conviction can't. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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