Guest Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 We don't have a "history" section, so I thought this was the best place to ask this... I am currently reading "Hitler's Willing Executioners-Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" and came across this sentence this morning: Schools had become so rife with the words and symbols of anti-Semitism, on the part of both teachers and pupils, that between 1919 and 1922 the ministries of culture of a number of German states issued prohibitions against the dissemination of anti-Semitic literature and the wearing of the swastika and other anti-Semitic symbols. Now my question is that I thought Hitler was responsible for taking the swastika and turning it from an ancient symbol of good luck into one of anti-Semitism, but 1919-1922 is too early for Hitler's influence, right? If that's so, how long was the swastika a symbol of hate then, and who is responsible for changing it's meaning? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I think the Swastika was adopted by the nazi party in 1920 but had been used by other German nationalist groups before hand. I understand it was chosen because it was an aryan/indian symbol and hence aryan/germanic. At the time it was more or less just a racial identifier thing as opposed to an outright anti-semetic symbol but then considering the racial theories prevelnt at the time it would certainly be seen as an us vs every other race type symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 Swatstikas abound in India, I even have a picture of a Swastik cafe around somewhere that I took while there. It's supposed to be the sun. The Germans stole it and changed its meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 It's supposed to be the sun. The Germans stole it and changed its meaning. The ancient Scandinavians (possibly my Germanic ancestors too, would need to look it up) saw the Swastika as sunwheel too. Superimpose two Sowulo runes at a 90 ° angle and you get a swastika. For those not much into runes, Sowulo's main meanings are "sun" and "victory". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 I guess my mistake is in thinking Hitler founded the Nazi party. I've read a fair amount about the Nazi's over the years yet I never seem to remember the Nazi's existed before Hitler took power. BTW, if Arian is blonde hair. blue eyes, how on earth did the Indians get mixed in with the Aryans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted June 2, 2009 Share Posted June 2, 2009 The Nazi party was very small before Hitler. He was actually supposed to infiltrate it on behalf of the Army as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 BTW, if Arian is blonde hair. blue eyes, how on earth did the Indians get mixed in with the Aryans? Ssssssh! Thinking about the bullshit will... ummm... you know what I mean! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 The Nazi party was very small before Hitler. He was actually supposed to infiltrate it on behalf of the Army as I recall. True. The bastard was more of an opportunist than one is inclined to think today. Very shortly after the end of WW1 he got elected into a soldiers' council. Yup he belonged to the extreme left back then. After that he sided with the conservatives, took over the small DAP (German workers' party), and became the far-right fuckface as that we know it today. Lies and hypocrisy from beginning to the bitter end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Casey Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 So far as I know, the Swastika had been around in Germany since the late 19th Century at least. It was one of the emblems of the Thule Gesellschaft or Thule Society. That was set up by German aristocrats as a reaction against what they saw as the evils of German Industrialisation at the time, (or so they said). The Thule Society was racist and anti-Semitic, insisting that its members could prove their "Aryan" roots back to the late 1700's. (As the SS was later to do with its officers, although its Other Ranks only had to prove Aryan ancestry to 1850). I believe Madam Blavatsky of occult fame had a lot to do with the "research" that "proved" the Swastika was of Aryan origin. The Thule Society would have been just another bunch of crackpots if it hadn't been for Germany's defeat in the Great War. After that, those who controlled Thule desired a Party which would appeal to the ordinary working man. Thus the NASDAP was set up under Anton Drexler, and that was the Party Hitler joined in 1919 I think it was. And yes, Hitler did infiltrate the NASDAP at the behest of the Army by whom he was then still employed. NASDAP is the acronym resulting from "Nazional Sozialist Deutsche Arbeiter Partei" It's from the first two words we get the abbreviation "Nazi". Whether the KPD (Kommunist Partei Deutschland) would have been any less extreme had they got into power is debatable; however, both Parties took a Socialist outlook. I'm only guessing, but I should say if the KPD had been successful I think their ideals too would have been twisted around. East Germany as it was after the Second World War wasn't all that nice a place to live in either as it happens. The Swastika (when considered as a piece of heraldry) could be dextrogyrate or sinister. IE it could appear to spin clockwise or anticlockwise as you looked at it. For what it's worth, in the Occult if a rotating symbol spins clockwise or "deosil" (with the sun) that is considered good, a symbol that spins widdershins (anticlockwise) is considered evil. Casey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 The Swastika (when considered as a piece of heraldry) could be dextrogyrate or sinister. IE it could appear to spin clockwise or anticlockwise as you looked at it. For what it's worth, in the Occult if a rotating symbol spins clockwise or "deosil" (with the sun) that is considered good, a symbol that spins widdershins (anticlockwise) is considered evil.Casey So does it spin toward the direction the arms point (like a cutting motion), or the other way (like a sprinkler)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 BTW, if Arian is blonde hair. blue eyes, how on earth did the Indians get mixed in with the Aryans? "Aryan" is derived from the Sanskrit for "Arya" which means "farmer" and referred to the inhabitants of northern India. Also, Iran means "Land of the Aryans"; the name was changed from Persia to "Iran" to suck up to Nazi Germany. Indo-Europeans originate from that neck of the woods. Some of them went south further into Iran and India, others of them went north and west. The earliest Europeans would've looked like Greeks and southern Italians. Also, Gypsies are technically Aryan--they came from the same area that Indo-Europeans are from and are of the same original stock, though they didn't go west into Europe until about the 12th century AD--which confounded the Nazis. So to get around that, they gave the Gypsies the black triangle, which meant "asocial." There was also a famous case of an Indian guy who fought in the American army during World War I. He tried to get U.S. citizenship, arguing that he was technically "Aryan." But the Supreme Court struck it down because he wasn't "white" in any way that Joe American would recognize. At any rate, I believe the southern Indians are "Dravidian" as opposed to "Aryan." They are darker, oftentimes much so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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