Is College Really Worth It?

[Ramen666]

Third year in college, not doing so hot this year then one of my professors got me thinking yesterday(I have been thinking about this for a long time), and kind pissed but anyway in the end is going through college, jumping through the hoops worth it?

 

The whole point of college is just to get more money with the degree, there really is no other point, people pay thousands and thousands dollars (luckily i got grants) for what? Debt? Is going through it worth it because I know there is PLENTY of jobs you can get that are good without college and many people have been successful without completing college (Bill Gates).

 

This idea and thought is based off this story on MSN which got me thinking:

 

 

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2009/05/college-d...tead.html#posts

 

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Colle...thTheMoney.aspx

[Vixentrox]

I think a lot of college is a scam and completly uneeded for many career choices. Colleges make you take classes that are completly useless for your chosen field, paying thousands of dollars into thier coffers. I work with a number of people that have degrees and I make more or equal to all of them. I never bothered to finish my Associate and don't really see the need to. I wouldn't get paid any extra for it. Technical schools make way more sense for many jobs too as opposed to some college degree.

[Ramen666]

I think a lot of college is a scam and completly uneeded for many career choices. Colleges make you take classes that are completly useless for your chosen field, paying thousands of dollars into thier coffers. I work with a number of people that have degrees and I make more or equal to all of them. I never bothered to finish my Associate and don't really see the need to. I wouldn't get paid any extra for it. Technical schools make way more sense for many jobs too as opposed to some college degree.

 

Tell me about useless classes ...that is where our school gets extra money, we have these classes called "theme" classes and they are just more junk classes added on that we have to take when no other university has them.

 

Take a look at this article it does support this highly:

http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/

[Vixentrox]

This isn't to say I'm anti-education. I just think the way colleges, at least American ones operate, they are more geared to milking your money than providing you with things to be successful. Many classes one is forced to take will end up rewarding you with answers to Jepordy questions and little more and indeed, you'll memory dump all that uneeded learning as soon as finals are over.

[woodsmoke]

My sister spent four years in school getting a BA in history. She currently works as an accountant. My cousin spent four years getting a BS in accounting. She currently works as an accountant. My roommate never went to college. He's an engineer with a local valve construction company. He makes more than both of them.

 

Fortunately, my student loan debt is pretty minimal compared to others. I've been out of school for a year and a half now and owe just under $3k. Sometimes I think I should go back and at least finish up my associates one of these days, but then I remember the facts of the above paragraph.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say college is a waste of time, but significant parts of it are most certainly a racket.

[Ramen666]

This isn't to say I'm anti-education. I just think the way colleges, at least American ones operate, they are more geared to milking your money than providing you with things to be successful. Many classes one is forced to take will end up rewarding you with answers to Jerpordy questions and little more and indeed, you'll memory dump all that uneeded learning as soon as finals are over.

 

My school also what makes it unpleasant is filled with crappy professors who should not be teaching and right now I am on the brink of failing/passing because of that.

 

It is just been real unpleasant for me this year and now I am looking to other options that are available and my history made a good point (she goes off topic sometimes) that people that graduate will soon see that their degree may not be worth it (because things are changing) they may not get the job they want.,ect. It just left a bitter taste in my mouth because many ways that is true already just taking the college or no college scenarios. I am starting to see it may not actually be worth it, but I agree (at least how I have seen my school operate) it appears they are doing it to milk it for all its worth.

[Ramen666]

My sister spent four years in school getting a BA in history. She currently works as an accountant. My cousin spent four years getting a BS in accounting. She currently works as an accountant. My roommate never went to college. He's an engineer with a local valve construction company. He makes more than both of them.

 

Fortunately, my student loan debt is pretty minimal compared to others. I've been out of school for a year and a half now and owe just under $3k. Sometimes I think I should go back and at least finish up my associates one of these days, but then I remember the facts of the above paragraph.

 

I wouldn't necessarily say college is a waste of time, but significant parts of it are most certainly a racket.

 

Accountant?

 

Do they actually enjoy it? I don't see how anyone can enjoy that line of work, I was required to take two of those classes and that wow.... totally destroyed any motivation that I had before those classes.

[woodsmoke]

Also, speaking from experience here, if you're going to college to further your education, you'd be better served and save a hell of a lot by simply making prolific use of your local public library. Part of the reason I became disillusioned with college was I found it to be much the same as high school in that respect (though the academic atmosphere of the former is far superior) - even the interesting classes require you to learn a bunch of useless information and do a metric fuck-ton of unnecessary minutia busywork homework, which you retain until the test then infodump as it no longer has any relevance. Despite being probably the most active and engaged participant in class discussions and being told by all three professors that was the only reason I wasn't passing at or near the top of the class I failed Islamic civ, philosophy and polsci (three subjects which fascinate me, and upon which I can expound at length) simply because I didn't have the patience to slog through all the homework.

[Vigile]

Yes college is worth it and there is no such thing as useless information.

 

*Forest Gump voice* That's all I have to say about that.

 

Ok, I'll say more. Without college I would still be working in a grocery store or would have already slit my wrists. As it stands, I am now living abroad as an exile and loving it and was just appointed to the board of directors of an online stock brokerage in Moscow. The $4k per year I spent in tuition was the best emotionally and financially profitable investment I have ever made. And I don't regret for a second the fact that I studied many subjects that I will never use in my career life. They [hopefully] contributed to me being a well rounded human being.

 

Be cool, stay in school. Or at least take a year or two and get your head straight and taste a big ol' nasty chunk of the real world and then go back.

[Yrth]

The college textbook market is straight up 21st century highway robbery. Change a few words here, a few words there, and presto!, Generic History version 8.5.6 this year costing you 120$, tyvm.

 

Its my impression that non-technical degrees require graduate school to succeed. But then I think of people I know with PhDs in English/Poetry/Philosophy and I feel tempted to retract that last bit.

[Vigile]

The college textbook market is straight up 21st century highway robbery. Change a few words here, a few words there, and presto!, Generic History version 8.5.6 this year costing you 120$, tyvm.

 

Yeah, that was always something that pissed me off as a student. Nothing like gouging the poorest of the poor on something they are required to spend their last beer nickel on.

[florduh]

It's been a long damn time since I set foot inside a college classroom. It was tough to be accepted by an accredited institution of higher learning way back then, but today it seems anyone with the tuition money can get in. I have friends whose kids/grandkids are damn near morons, and they all get to go to college! The online schools are flourishing too, but I can't imagine their value can be anywhere close to a real college. I see recent grads that get jobs that pay so little, it will take many years to break even on their college loans. Many choose to simply default.

 

I think one thing has remained the same though. Attending university with the singular goal of making more money than if you didn't, is a waste of everyone's time. Education for its own sake, studying to become a better person, catching the fire of subjects you may have never considered interesting - that's the reason to go to class. The later benefits will take care of themselves. If it's just a high paying job you're after, learn to be a plumber or electrician, or a great salesman.

[♦ nivek ♦]

(edited for clarity, cut some idiocy)

 

Ramen,

 

I'll speak from blue and gray collar aspects of EdUMUskasdhuns...

 

Everyone at some time has a *passion*, something they can't live without, want to follow, do, and hopefully make a living at.

 

Then everyone *works*. McJob, realJob, whatever. Something that pays bills and keeps roof over head.

 

I suggest that you find something you can do for *work*, learn it, invest in being able to do *underwater upside down basket welding in arctic conditions*, then you can have time and coin to go play in SkuLLe.

 

Do not recommend going to skUllE and WorK together as I did, takes a lotta fun out of binge drinking and chasing wimmins, but it did pay for everything. I had NO debt coming out of trade skULLe and after my first two AA and my BA.

 

Now I'm a edUMUSHKateD idiot with a ton of assorted papers and supposed abilities granted by skuLLEz.

Big Fukin' Deal.

 

Made more money goofing off with an EMT certificate, welding certifications, passport, and knowing the folks who'd hire me.

 

Sittin' in a *program track* and being force fed bullshit (that BS being fed by your green!) then finally having a "certificate" of some sort is worth all you want it to be... Maybe.

 

Learn how to work *any* job in front of you. Do not be too proud to take on something *under your level of education* (coff! coff!), learn that money, cash in hand beats fuck out of a hamburger promised tomorrow.

 

Being broke today is not *broke always*.

 

A *Degree* is no more a map to success than TP is a warrant of a clean ass. Both work as well as each other in most exchanges.

 

Work sucks. No way around it. Some of we can do things that do not require sweat, blood, blisters. Others seem to be relegated to a life of back breaking labor. Up to you as to which direction you care to go.

 

Never too late to switch directions and try something else as long as you still are able to "make a living".

 

Cash is king.

 

k,BTDT,partied away a kings ransom,FL

[Ramen666]

Good post nivek....that is an interesting way looking at life and the real world.

[Naughtyhamster]

I think this country should revamp the educational system and create more opportunities for students who do not fit into our current education system but want to succeed in life. In Germany you can start taking vocational and junior college level classes as early as junior high, and if you go to a university you don't need to take all these unnecessary general education classes before you start taking the required classes or your major.

 

 

This isn't to say I'm anti-education. I just think the way colleges, at least American ones operate, they are more geared to milking your money than providing you with things to be successful. Many classes one is forced to take will end up rewarding you with answers to Jepordy questions and little more and indeed, you'll memory dump all that uneeded learning as soon as finals are over.

 

One thing for sure is that I can understand why in our global economy I need to learn another language, but WTF am I doing wasting my time taking the "Capstone" classes that California universities require? All the "Capstone" classes are is learning about something in contemporary culture, then writing long essays about some specific topic you are interested in. Last year I took a comedy in literature and the media "Capstone" class and it was so fucking easy. I got A's on papers which all I wrote about was analyzing the low humor elements in Sailor Moon, or a midterm where I had to analyze the similarities and differences of comedy elements in Lysistrata, Monty Python's Life of Brian, and A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum. Yes, I was exposed to some classic literature like Lysistrata and Huck Finn, but I didn't see how such a class could help me with my art history major in any way.

[Weetie]

I think a lot of it has to do with the type of major you're taking. I think the arts & science majors tend to have a more broadening, enriching experience, while business or engineering majors are more about just getting through the coursework & getting a diploma. If you're in your 3rd year & questioning the worthwhileness of your college experience, maybe you need to change majors - which would probably be financially painful at this point, but perhaps you could try taking some courses outside of your area of focus. Try a gender studies class, or music appreciation, or world literature. Just branch out.

 

I'll say one final thing in support of college education: If I hadn't gone to college, I'd still be a Fundamentalist (and married to a certain woman I like to refer to as "The French Poodle")

[Ramen666]

I think a lot of it has to do with the type of major you're taking. I think the arts & science majors tend to have a more broadening, enriching experience, while business or engineering majors are more about just getting through the coursework & getting a diploma. If you're in your 3rd year & questioning the worthwhileness of your college experience, maybe you need to change majors - which would probably be financially painful at this point, but perhaps you could try taking some courses outside of your area of focus. Try a gender studies class, or music appreciation, or world literature. Just branch out.

 

I'll say one final thing in support of college education: If I hadn't gone to college, I'd still be a Fundamentalist (and married to a certain woman I like to refer to as "The French Poodle")

 

Welcome to the forums I notice you are a new member, yeah changing majors at this point would be a shot in the foot. I am pretty much stuck basically in what I need to do.

 

Just try to get survive through the next year to get done is basically what I need to do. It sucks I know but all the stress I have had to this point should be worth something right?

[gypsy79]

Welcome to the forums I notice you are a new member, yeah changing majors at this point would be a shot in the foot. I am pretty much stuck basically in what I need to do.

 

Just try to get survive through the next year to get done is basically what I need to do. It sucks I know but all the stress I have had to this point should be worth something right?

 

Hey Ramen, also keep in mind that a lot of employers don't give a crap if your major is related to your job. They just like to know that you have a piece of paper. That's why I've never seen the point in people changing majors unless they truly need to in order to get a job in their new field...or if they would just like to extend their college experience (which is also fine). Many, many, many people easily get jobs that aren't related to their major or are only indirectly related to their major. For example, I took a job once before I had my degree and found out soon thereafter that this complete moron with no experience in the next cubicle was making more than me just because she had a degree. What degree, you ask? Why, one that was completely unrelated to the job.

 

If I were in your shoes, I would just stick it out. You're so close. Then again, people aren't the same, so if you need to take a break for a while and go back later, that is fine too. I'm not sure how old you are, but I know that I was totally uninterested in school until I spent about 8 years in the workforce and realized it was time. Granted, I "climbed the corporate ladder" hella faster than my colleagues for a while because I had 4 years of work experience on them, but eventually they caught up and started surpassing me income-wise because they had that freaking piece of paper. That's when I decided to go back and knock it out in 5 years while working full time. Now the playing field is even again, and MAN, it feels so good when you graduate. Even if if it never gets you any extra money or never does anything for you besides teach you how to think critically (which is huge), IT FEELS SO FREAKING GOOD TO SHAKE THAT UNIVERSITY PRESIDENT'S HAND.

 

Studying will become more enjoyable after you are out of school. Sad but true. That is the way I have found it to be. It sucks when you are in school, forced to do it, and have to complete busy work on top of it. But that is the way the system is right now.

 

No, you don't need a degree to be successful. It just makes it easier sometimes. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but when an employer is slogging through a million resumes, the ones with a degree are going on top and the ones without may just get tossed without a second glance. Of course, if you have an entrepreneurial spirit, you may not be applying for those types of jobs anyway.

 

*stopping the rambling now*

[gypsy79]

Okay, I lied about shutting up.

 

Just wanted to say that I liked Weetie's suggestion to branch out. If you don't want to do that now because it will cost extra money and time, you might consider doing it after you get your degree. For example, I wanted to take a foreign language class while I was in school but didn't need it to graduate because I had already taken a couple. So, I took it a 6-month break after graduation and then enrolled in a foreign language class. The best part is I am not taking it through a college, so it won't go on my permanent record and I can skip the busy work without negative repercussions. I'm learning more than I ever would have in a college class because I WANT to be there.

 

That last year of college is SO hard and you want to quit a million times, but sometimes it helps to know you will be studying more enjoyable things later.

[Naughtyhamster]

I think a lot of it has to do with the type of major you're taking.

 

 

I understand that my major (art history) requires a solid background in general history, foreign languages,art, and some experience in archeology ( if you're doing ancient art), and some anthropology. Still, but why waste my time in a class analyzing pop culture, or taking a science class (where I go to the zoo all the time) going to help me with art history?

[♦ Fuego ♦]

Here is the story of my academic journey. Perhaps you can derive something useful from it.

 

I first started in college studying computers back in 1983, though they called it "data processing" then. PCs weren't really available for the most part. Anyway, I started out fine and then had to take Botany, Chemistry, Calculus, Sociology, and PE, none of which have anything to do directly with the major. My grades plummeted because I was a lousy student that valued TV way more than homework.

 

Right about the time I was going to be kicked out of school, I decided to switch to Horticulture. I worked as a dishwasher to pay my way, and only took a few classes at a time. I no longer had to have some of the more advanced classes, and this gave me time to really study my major. I trained to be a tree surgeon and was being mentored by one of the best in our area. I was able to get back up to mostly A's and graduated with a Associates Hort degree. I worked in this field for about 6 months and decided that I would never make enough to support a family. So I went back to school.

 

This time I took Metallurgy. There were three major companies in the area that dealt with titanium and government contracts, so I figured I'd be able to get on with one of them, or with the Federal Bureau of Mines. I was poor. So poor that I couldn't afford proper boots for welding class. I worked and rode the bus and went to class. During class I showed aptitude for programming calculators and messing with the new PCs that were coming out then. I wrote a book for the school about programming calculators with metallurgical equations. I graduated right about the time the metals markets collapsed and the metal companies in my area were laying off most of their people. So I got a job in a small electronics assembly place. The business was owned by a family of drunkards that regularly got into brawls at work.

 

I applied to the Bureau of Mines and nearly got the job, but I was asked about where I worked currently and how I liked it. This is where I learned to never mention anything bad about the current employer. After telling my interviewer about what I thought of my current employer, I could see his walls go up and knew I had failed the interview.

 

So I worked in electronics for a couple of years. Then a guy from HP (Hewlett Packard) saw the book I made for the calculators and asked if I wanted to work for them. I interviewed and was hired by HP.

 

I worked for HP moving from calculators to palmtop computers, to cleanroom computer support (with a good dose of unix thrown in), then to sitewide computer support. I was actually fought over at that point because the manager of the cleanroom didn't want to lose me, and the site IT manager definitely wanted me. My old manager went to corporate and got a ruling that said if you don't have a BS degree, you can't work for IT! The IT manager countered with, "Fine. I'll have each of my staff get an BS degree... at HP's expense." And so we did. I went back to school again, this time online, and eventually got a BS degree. (I was laid off mid-stream due to HP downsizing, but kept going to school at my own cost).

 

Due to the layoff, I was eligible for NAFTA retraining, so I had them pay for the local college to train me in computer networking and telecommunications. Since I already had most of the non-major classes from my other degree, I was able to focus mostly on the majors. I graduated simultaneously with two more associate degrees and the BS degree (in Information Technology).

 

I applied to the county for an entry level helpdesk position and went to the interview with great confidence in my abilities. They said that I stood out as one with the most education, and with the calmest and most confident attitude they had seen. I got the job. I've been there 5 years now, and applied for the networking job when it opened. It was pretty much already spoken for, due to a political situation, so I didn't get that job. But I remain employed for now with the best group of people I've ever worked with and with great benefits.

 

I'd prefer to not ever go to school again, but my networking knowledge is nearly out of date. Technology is charging ahead, so if I ever want to do that as a profession (would pay twice what I'm getting now), then I will have to become re-certified and re-educated. Such is life.

 

There are tons of highly educated and highly trained people that are out of work right now. Try to get a feel for what you want to do, and what businesses you think will be hiring 5 years from now. That is hard to predict, and you will have to work to get some sense of that. But that is what you want to aim for, unless you are content doing mindless labor. The degree means something to those doing the hiring and promoting, the extra classes about history and such are useful if you want them to be, but aren't if you never apply them. The direction you take is in your hands for the most part, and as you can see, I've changed direction several times.

 

Who you know is just as important as what you know. Being personable is better than being a quiet geek (if you want to get hired). Staying current with your field is essential. I might have been able to displace the guy that got the network job if I had stayed current. Maybe not since it was political, but I could at least have really competed.

 

I hope you can get something useful out of all that.

[♦ nivek ♦]

Ramen,

 

I'd suggest one thing at this point in this thread...

 

"Listen to George Carlin"

 

Catch a whiff of what it means to not_give_a_fuck and still be happy and somewhat successful.

 

kL

[OpheliaGinger]

I know if it weren't for college and my anthropology class, I would still be a fundamentalist Christian.

 

Yes college is worth it and there is no such thing as useless information.

 

Even though I still question the relevance of my public speaking class has to do with my major, I know that having taken that class did help me improve my paper's structure. I even had a professor comment on how well my paper was structured.

 

The online schools are flourishing too, but I can't imagine their value can be anywhere close to a real college.

 

One of my mother's coworkers got a degree from an online school that turned out to be a scam, and the sad part is that she didn't find out until a news camera crew tracked her down and asked what she thought about her degree being useless. And apparently, employers don't see a degree from an online school to hold any merit.

[PaulQ]

Ah, here's a topic I can really relate to.

 

The problem with College isn't the post-secondary education system per se, but rather people's perceptions of it. People get this idea in their head that if they go to college and get a diploma, they're going to get a good job. Unfortunately, that sort of thinking is backwards.

 

College needs to be part of a bigger plan, and it's up to the individual to determine if it's even necessary to achieve their goals. For example, if you really want to become a police officer, you're often better off spending time working for a minimum wage security company than you are studying Law and Security, because the program exists solely to keep future police officers busy until they're mature enough - and to make money for the College. On the other hand, some employers won't even look at you unless you're on the Dean's list at a reputable collage. The diploma or certification tells the potential employer that you are so determined, you were willing to invest in yourself and do what it takes.

 

Last time I was in College was in the early to mid 90's. I studied Information Systems for 3 years, and graduated with an A average. That diploma opened doors for me that would have otherwise been inaccessible; EDS, programming for the Ontario school board, securing a contract with IBM. It was well worth the investment; while I certainly didn't make six figures when I graduated, I at least made double what I had been making without the diploma at minimum wage. Granted, I saw the end would come after the year 2000, knowing full well that demand would drop off after everyone's Y2k problem was fixed. Hey, but what a fun ride it was; very rewarding and enlightening, and I did hold out until 2002.

 

I should mention that the entire College experience was a time of incredible growth for me personally. It's around that time I started shedding my religious views, and found out who I really was. I learned things about life in those three years that I may never have learned otherwise. Most importantly, I learned to find my inner strength.

 

I find myself in an interesting position where I'm going to return to College. This time, I'm studying renewable energy. Just because we only have one life doesn't mean we need to be stuck doing one thing. I'm really looking forward to it, and it's exactly what I need for another career I know I'll enjoy just as much as my last one.

[hereticzero]

I met very interesting people in college, some famous people that brought their one-act shows or plays to campus. I generally had a great time and it was one of the better experiences of my life. I did not get a degree. I majored in Journalism and Sociology and dropped out due to physical disabilities in my senior year. I was able to get a job working for the govt. based on my schooling I did have and other diplomas I've received such as Paralegal. I don't miss having a pig skin on the wall.