The American Taliban Claim Another Victim

[♦ nivek ♦]

The American Taliban claim another victim

CounterPunch

by Dave Lindorff

 

"Sunday's cowardly assassination of abortion doctor George Tiller

demonstrates once again that the US is not all that different from

Pakistan. One thing that these two violent societies share is having a

group of rabid religious fundamentalists who are each on a jihad

against those in their nation with whom they disagree, and who are

ready to kill and maim their enemies without mercy or hesitation. The

other thing -- perhaps the more dangerous thing -- that they share is

a government apparatus in which certain elements are overtly or

surreptitiously supportive of the jihadists, hoping to use them for

their own political advantage, and in which other elements are cowed

into silence and inaction." (06/02/09)

 

http://counterpunch.org/lindorff06022009.html

[Snafutopia]

Excellent and to the point!

[Doobie]

The American Taliban claim another victim

CounterPunch

by Dave Lindorff

 

"Sunday's cowardly assassination of abortion doctor George Tiller

 

What screwed up dictionary is Lindorff using that defines "cowardly" as giving up one's freedom or life for a deeply held belief? Lindorff must be in the same book club as George Bush.

[Caretaker]

The American Taliban claim another victim

CounterPunch

by Dave Lindorff

 

"Sunday's cowardly assassination of abortion doctor George Tiller

 

What screwed up dictionary is Lindorff using that defines "cowardly" as giving up one's freedom or life for a deeply held belief? Lindorff must be in the same book club as George Bush.

 

 

Well, when one's only way to win a dispute is to kill the opposition, I think it speaks poorly of that person's ability to "win the debate" as it were.

 

You know, if it were a Muslim who killed somebody who didn't share his or her belief, I am sure you would jump on the terrorist brand-wagon. But of course, I am sure that as far as you are concerned, a Christian can never do harm, right?

 

Notice a double standard here?

[Doobie]

Well, when one's only way to win a dispute is to kill the opposition, I think it speaks poorly of that person's ability to "win the debate" as it were.

 

Any use of force (that includes using the government) speaks poorly of one's ability to win debates.

 

You know, if it were a Muslim who killed somebody who didn't share his or her belief, I am sure you would jump on the terrorist brand-wagon. But of course, I am sure that as far as you are concerned, a Christian can never do harm, right?

 

Christians don't get 70 virgins in Heaven for killing someone for God. So, what's the point?

[Vixentrox]

Christians don't get 70 virgins in Heaven for killing someone for God. So, what's the point?

Chistians have and do kill for way less than 70 virgins in God's name. All to combat sin for the greater glory to god. Praise Jesus!

[Ouroboros]

Christians don't get 70 virgins in Heaven for killing someone for God. So, what's the point?

I thought they got the virgins for dying as martyrs, not that they killed someone for God.

 

Muhammad Abu Wardeh on Sixty Minutes, in 2001:"God would compensate the martyr for sacrificing his life for his land. If you become a martyr, God will give you 70 virgins, 70 wives and everlasting happiness."

 

But then, Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi, an Islamic scholar, responded in the aftermath that there will be 72 wives for every Muslim who goes to Heaven, and not only for the martyrs.

[pitchu]

What screwed up dictionary is Lindorff using that defines "cowardly" as giving up one's freedom or life for a deeply held belief? Lindorff must be in the same book club as George Bush.

 

Bush's use of the word, "cowardly," was bizarre because the 9/11 hijackers blew themselves up along with their hapless victims. Tiller's assassin gave up neither his freedom nor his life. He was friggin' caught.

[Legion]

What screwed up dictionary is Lindorff using that defines "cowardly" as giving up one's freedom or life for a deeply held belief? Lindorff must be in the same book club as George Bush.

Yeah, because shooting someone in a church is so brave.

 

Doobie I realize you don't know me. There's not a reason in the world why you should listen to a thing I say, much less follow my advice. But I advise you to pick your battles with greater wisdom.

 

I understand you might be pro-life. But this killing is not going to advance your position.

[Vigile]

I don't know why anyone would defend this asshole but I do see Doobie's point about the word cowardly. It's hyperbole that is used to reflect the feelings of disgust normal people have about such idiotic, reckless and hateful behavior.

 

Just out of curiosity, I do wonder what Doobie's reaction to the firing of Bill Maher was when he raised the same argument about the terrorists after 9/11.

[BlueGiant]

Cowardly or not, there is a threat that needs to be eliminated.

 

Doobie, why do you hate America?

[Thegodthatfailed]

I thought they got the virgins for dying as martyrs, not that they killed someone for God.

But then, Sheikh Abdul Hadi Palazzi, an Islamic scholar, responded in the aftermath that there will be 72 wives for every Muslim who goes to Heaven, and not only for the martyrs.

 

Damn! Well that settles it. I'm converting to Islam.

[Ouroboros]

Damn! Well that settles it. I'm converting to Islam.

No, no, no, you have to convert to our new religion. My son and I came up with: Mehism. It's built on the word: Meh, which means both yes, no, maybe, perhaps, I don't care, leave me the fuck alone, and it also means meh. (yes, it's a circular definition)

 

Best religion around. Everything is meh. God is Meh, and Meh is God. Faith and belief is meh, and the best expression for prayer is: meh.

 

So join us today, Mehism is the future!

[Doobie]

What screwed up dictionary is Lindorff using that defines "cowardly" as giving up one's freedom or life for a deeply held belief? Lindorff must be in the same book club as George Bush.

Yeah, because shooting someone in a church is so brave.

 

Doing anything for your beliefs, knowing that it will have grave consequences for yourself is only cowardly in the George Bush way of backwards thinking. In the rational world, this is bravery. If you don't want to call him brave, fine. But, calling him a coward is stupid. Consider if he aborted Tiller from five miles away with a rifle, in high wind. It would be stupid of you to call him a lousy aim. He would be a world-class marksman. If you don't won't to call him a world-class marksman, fine. Understand? The definition of "coward" is not "doing something you object to".

 

Don't be such a slave to a position that you throw out insults and arguments without regard for the quality of those insults and arguments.

 

I understand you might be pro-life. But this killing is not going to advance your position.

 

Everything that happens advances my position.

[Thegodthatfailed]

Damn! Well that settles it. I'm converting to Islam.

No, no, no, you have to convert to our new religion. My son and I came up with: Mehism. It's built on the word: Meh, which means both yes, no, maybe, perhaps, I don't care, leave me the fuck alone, and it also means meh. (yes, it's a circular definition)

 

Best religion around. Everything is meh. God is Meh, and Meh is God. Faith and belief is meh, and the best expression for prayer is: meh.

 

So join us today, Mehism is the future!

 

Ok, sure but how many hot virgin wives do I get?

[Ouroboros]

Ok, sure but how many hot virgin wives do I get?

Meh. As many as you want.

[florduh]

Doing anything for your beliefs, knowing that it will have grave consequences for yourself is only cowardly in the George Bush way of backwards thinking. In the rational world, this is bravery.

 

Sacrificing one's own life for a cause is bravery, though usually misguided. A hit and run shooting is not bravery, but perhaps the opposite. It's murder, plain and simple - prohibited by the laws of both Man and the god that the killer supposedly worships.

 

I understand the twisted thought process that leads such people to justify their violent acts, but it is still reprehensible - and also cowardly if they run and try to get away with the crime.

[Doobie]

I don't know why anyone would defend this asshole but I do see Doobie's point about the word cowardly. It's hyperbole that is used to reflect the feelings of disgust normal people have about such idiotic, reckless and hateful behavior.

 

It's not even hyperbole (exaggeration). Willingly putting yourself in danger is not even an act of slight timidity that you could exaggerate into cowardice.

 

I don't know how much credit for thinking I should give people who throw around nonsense, but maybe they're attempting to deny the perpetrator any virtue, similar to calling a world-class sniper a lousy shot (denying shooting skill). Or, less similar to Fox News calling suicide bombers "homicide bombers" (denying martyrdom). In any case, when people start arguing with propaganda rather than reason, they retard their own ability to reason.

 

The 9/11 hijackers were brave. Bill Maher is right on this. That doesn't mean you have to praise them by calling them brave. You can call them murderers. You can call them fools and nuts. You can call them brave heroes, if you support what they did. But, calling them "cowards" is stupid.

[Ouroboros]

Or calling a Christians intelligent...

[Doobie]

Sacrificing one's own life for a cause is bravery, though usually misguided. A hit and run shooting is not bravery, but perhaps the opposite. It's murder, plain and simple - prohibited by the laws of both Man and the god that the killer supposedly worships.

 

I understand the twisted thought process that leads such people to justify their violent acts, but it is still reprehensible - and also cowardly if they run and try to get away with the crime.

 

Attempts to rationalize something stupid amounts to piling stupid on stupid. A brave act does not cease to be brave just because the brave individual tries to avoid being a victim of the danger that he faces. Would you call a volunteer fireman, after saving someone's life in a terrible fire, a coward for running out of a burning building instead of letting it collapse on him? You're confusing bravery with foolishness.

 

BTW, who are you to say Tiller's abortionist violated the law of God?

[Franko47]

Sacrificing one's own life for a cause is bravery, though usually misguided. A hit and run shooting is not bravery, but perhaps the opposite. It's murder, plain and simple - prohibited by the laws of both Man and the god that the killer supposedly worships.

 

I understand the twisted thought process that leads such people to justify their violent acts, but it is still reprehensible - and also cowardly if they run and try to get away with the crime.

 

Attempts to rationalize something stupid amounts to piling stupid on stupid. A brave act does not cease to be brave just because the brave individual tries to avoid being a victim of the danger that he faces. Would you call a volunteer fireman, after saving someone's life in a terrible fire, a coward for running out of a burning building instead of letting it collapse on him? You're confusing bravery with foolishness.

 

BTW, who are you to say Tiller's abortionist violated the law of God?

 

 

 

Wow.....

[Vomit Comet]

Bush's use of the word, "cowardly," was bizarre because the 9/11 hijackers blew themselves up along with their hapless victims.

 

I don't know that I'd use the term "cowardly" but it was kind of down there with some headfucked teenager showing up to his high school with loaded guns one day after deciding he wants to die and take a dozen or so others with him. Either that or some kid who decides to off his ex-girlfriend and then himself. Although I would give them credit for training and planning; it couldn't have been child's play to pull off.

 

On the other hand, I'd say it was a ballsy move for the Chechen fighters to take over that theater in Moscow because they were hoping beyond all hope to walk out of there alive after having their demands met. But they got greased by Spetsnaz instead.

[Guest QuidEstCaritas?]

On the other hand, I'd say it was a ballsy move for the Chechen fighters to take over that theater in Moscow because they were hoping beyond all hope to walk out of there alive after having their demands met. But they got greased by Spetsnaz instead.

 

lmao. It's just the way you said that. Teh Funeez!

[Naiya]

Pro-lifers don't give a shit about babies or children and I can prove it.

 

They're always there for the fetuses, even the fetuses who are so malformed that once born will die instantly.

 

 

But let's see how much pro-lifers care about babies who are six weeks old, hmmm? They tell people to put such babies up for adoption. How many pro-lifers are actually supporting that belief system by adopting babies in children? Oh, almost none you say? Wow that's weird, I guess no one cares about the little kids who are suffering because their parents can't afford them and don't want them.

 

By the way my mom happens to be a social worker...you people realize how many young girls are pregnant because Daddy raped them over and over right? And once the baby is born, how is she supposed to be able to function looking at a reminder of her trauma every day? Oh wait, she's supposed to put it up for adoption right? Oh okay...well you don't want to adopt that baby and neither does anyone else...hmm well I guess all we can do is put more money into social services so that people who ARE willing to adopt are given the funds to do so.

 

Oh wait--I forgot! Fundies absolutely HATE putting money into social services, and so do republicans! Because they don't want to reward those horrible ungrateful bitches who are raped by their Daddies by giving them money to raise their kid. Those evil evil welfare moms! Of course no one ever gives a shit about the actual children in the situation. FUCK em! They are their mother's problem now! And if she can't handle it she should give them away even though nobody wants them and the foster care system is all but broken due to lack of funding.

 

 

So abortion really comes down to....controlling those uppity women by making damn sure they can't have birth control and can't have abortions and force them to be dependent by making them raise children when they aren't ready or able to.

 

If anyone who is pro-life gives two shits about these babies and children, they'd be pouring as much money and time into helping the kids who HAVE been born already as they do for 8-celled fetuses. But they don't. As soon as that kid pops out, no one give s a flying fuck.

[Doobie]

Oh wait--I forgot! Fundies absolutely HATE putting money into social services, and so do republicans! Because they don't want to reward those horrible ungrateful bitches who are raped by their Daddies by giving them money to raise their kid.

 

"Wow....."