Guest Ramos28 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hey guys, this time i am wondering about your opinion on meditation. I think this can be a great tool that can help me to deal with my OCD and phobias, but i can't let myself relax my mind, because any time I do i feel like i'll be demonically possessed, as this is what I was taught in my church. I even tried yoga but my fear is back and I can't go to class anymore. How did you explain that issue to yourself, and gave yourself a permission to start meditating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I'm no expert in meditation, and I have never done any "professional" session in the sense of studying how you're supposed to do it etc. But, I have several times relaxed with some nice slow music and let my mind drift off, and I suspect that the effect is the same as meditation. I suggest that perhaps you should try that out. Get an iPod, and download some "mood" music or "easy listening" and see if you just can sit, calm down, day dream, and hopefully you can feel how refreshing it is after. If you have an iPhone or iTouch, you can download a program like "Ambiance" and listen to rain, thunderstorm, or a river. And it's very calming. It puts me to sleep even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ramos28 Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 I'm no expert in meditation, and I have never done any "professional" session in the sense of studying how you're supposed to do it etc. But, I have several times relaxed with some nice slow music and let my mind drift off, and I suspect that the effect is the same as meditation. I suggest that perhaps you should try that out. Get an iPod, and download some "mood" music or "easy listening" and see if you just can sit, calm down, day dream, and hopefully you can feel how refreshing it is after. If you have an iPhone or iTouch, you can download a program like "Ambiance" and listen to rain, thunderstorm, or a river. And it's very calming. It puts me to sleep even. that could work...i don't know if i'll be able to relax my mind though. that's when i was told the demons come in...i know, but i just can't get rid of that fear (that's ocd for ya). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 7, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted June 7, 2009 that's when i was told the demons come in So let 'em in. Seriously, how can imaginary demons be any worse than the brainwashing was/is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutate Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 If there is such a thing, mindfulness will only show it more clearly and help rid of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted June 7, 2009 Share Posted June 7, 2009 Hey guys, this time i am wondering about your opinion on meditation. I think this can be a great tool that can help me to deal with my OCD and phobias, but i can't let myself relax my mind, because any time I do i feel like i'll be demonically possessed, as this is what I was taught in my church. I even tried yoga but my fear is back and I can't go to class anymore. How did you explain that issue to yourself, and gave yourself a permission to start meditating? Your mind relaxes everytime you go to sleep; if there's no trouble with demons then....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I have a couple of ways of meditating, and they don't always involve the mind being blank, just not occupied with hurried thoughts. 1. It rains a lot here, so I put on my rain jacket and go lie down in a field (where I won't be mistaken for someone in need of help) and just listen to the rain. I try to hear my surroundings by the sound the rain makes when it hits. It sounds different on the grass than on the rocks and puddles, and even different on the leaves of the trees. I try to "see" by hearing. It is very relaxing and while my mind is active, it isn't full of odd thoughts or religion or even nonsense questions about one hand clapping. 2. (This can be done anywhere, but may be best to find a quiet place to first build the scene) I breathe deeply for about a minute and then imagine a tree in a nice meadow. I see myself under the tree just kicking back and enjoying the day. It is usually a pleasant summer morning, not too warm and with a gentle breeze blowing, lightly rustling the leaves of the tree. There is a stream nearby with a relaxing sound. All I do is sit there for a while enjoying the scene. This meditation isn't done to blank my mind, but to relax it and simply be quiet for a while and give the soul a rest from fretting or busyness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted June 8, 2009 Share Posted June 8, 2009 I totally know how you feel. I'm still too scared to start lucid dreaming again, because of the possibility that demons might get me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I hope you find something that works for you. I read some stuff about meditation a while ago, and realized that I'd been doing some forms of it on my own, and it had helped me out quite a bit. 1. Need-based diving into myself. When I was upset about something, I'd put on music with a slow beat and focus on the emotional pain that I'd been suppressing through the day. I'd loose all awareness of my physical surroundings, but have vivid and dream-like... visions, I guess. I never worried about demon possession because I wasn't leaving myself, I was actually becoming more of myself and completely inward focused. I couldn't hold on to these forever, and when I came back to myself i was always slightly disappointed that I hadn't fixed anything, but I had a much better idea of how I felt and what I needed to work on. Have you ever woken up in the morning with the remnants of dreams and been able to say "oh, I know what was going on in my life that I was trying to deal with while asleep...."? If so, it was like a much more intense and conscious version of that. 2. Math/art/music is pretty. To do well at the subjects I just mentioned requires a lot of mental focus. When I'm in the middle of a project, my sense of self slips away, I forget how to talk (language comprehension is fine, I just can't form verbal words until I shake myself out of it), I loose track of time, and I almost feel like I'm channeling some greater power. This also does not involve leaving yourself open to daemons because you are full of creative energy. Once I realized that I was meditating, I got really worried about the spiritual consequences too. But I had this idea (which was somewhat supported by some christians I knew) that the problem is with leaving your mind empty; finding something constructive or peaceful to fill your mind with is different and thus ok (I mean, the Bible even says to meditate on the word of god. My mom had an old catholic tract that talked about staring at a candle flame and thinking about the bible as a good form of meditation). I don't believe in daemons any more, and I think being able to control your thoughts and emotions is a responsible thing to do. If you can't talk yourself out of your fear, maybe you can talk yourself around it until you've been able to prove to yourself that nothing bad is happening. And hey, non-chemically-induced altered states of consciousness are fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naiya Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I totally know how you feel. I'm still too scared to start lucid dreaming again, because of the possibility that demons might get me. If it helps, I'm on a lucid dreaming forum and it's pretty much unheard of to see, hear, or otherwise experience demons. And we have hundreds of lucid dreamers. Lucid dreaming is known to reduce nightmares, phobias and anxiety. When I was still in the "deliverance" bullcrap phase of my life, I believed that my dream guide/spirit guide was an evil spirit. Because he had different spiritual views than I did (he did not accept Christianity which was only more "evidence" of his evil-bad-demon-ness), I spent most of my energy trying to kill him or banish him. When I deconverted and tried to understand things from a more objective POV, I realized that he was not a bad influence at all. Almost all of the problems related to the situation were because I was rejecting an important part of myself (either a part of my psyche or a spiritual guide, whichever you choose to believe) and because I felt such extreme guilt and terror over my "failure" to make him go away. Anyway when it comes to "demons" or phobias and nightmares, he taught me how to render them powerless. If you are a lucid dreamer, you can confront your fears in two ways. First, you can try to understand them and where they come from. I was afraid of the ocean for a very long time, even in lucid dreams the sight gave me panic attacks. When I understood that this represented my fear of mortality and eternity (paradox I know), I was no longer afraid of it. I don't know why. The second option is more for instinctual and irrational fears, like demons. IF you are lucid, you can overcome these kinds of nightmares by taking control of your feelings. When you're in a panic this is hard to do so one way you can do it is think of a time when you felt very loved and safe, remember it and imagine you're there again. Once you calm yourself down you can use your dream control to change the demons into something nonthreatening (like piglets!). I think that lucid dreaming and meditation are not completely without their spiritual implications. I believe that they are completely safe, but I also think that both of them are strongly tied to emotional and spiritual growth so a lot of your personal issues may eventually come up and demand to be dealt with. Please forgive the thread derail. But for what its worth you can pretty much do the above during meditation too, if you want to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I stopped lucid dreaming years ago because they kept getting "invaded" by demons and I couldn't stop them. I'm hoping it would be different the next go-around. However, I don't care about spiritual growth. If there are "spirits" out there, I would rather not encounter them. I've had enough of that for one lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naiya Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 Totally understandable there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Perus32 Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 never heard of lucid dreaming...kind of had enough of spirituality as well. Just deconverted and so being in a physical and present state is all i wish and hope for. I really feel i need to get past that fear as some of the answers to my phobias lie there, and if i learn to relax my mind and meditate i'll be a much healthier person...just too afraid to get past the fear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthOkkata Posted June 9, 2009 Share Posted June 9, 2009 I'm not a spiritual person, but sometimes enjoy listening to meditation myself just to relax. I find it soothing, even though I know the spiritual junk that's often being spouted is completely bogus. Sometimes I'll use guided meditation, or listen to chakra meditation, not for spiritual reasons, but just because I find it helps me relax and sometimes helps me fall asleep. I personally don't put any stock in the idea of demons, and have no trouble with fears of allowing them into myself. I do understand such things though, sometimes it's hard to let go of that sort of thing after living with it for so long. I usually find things like 'chakra' meditation or other spiritual types amusing, and at the same time relaxing, just for the ambiance and soothing tones that it's usually presented with. Very theatrical stuff, but not for everyone. I'd recommend avoiding such things given your circumstances. However, in your case, especially if you're looking for a way to relax. I highly recommend trying 'Progressive Muscle Relaxation'. It's not spiritual in nature, no talk of strange 'energies' or 'clearing your mind', [but avoiding distractions and finding a comfortable quiet place is recommended.] It is in fact, very clinical, and has legitimate clinical applications. It usually opens up with controlled breathing, followed by the tensing and relaxing of muscle groups in a systematic fashion. Focusing on the tension while tensing up the muscles and focusing attention on the difference between tense and relaxed states in those areas. It does seem similar to 'meditation' at first but is in fact, not that sort of thing at all. This is not spiritual stuff, and it has legitimate value as a type of therapy. It's not 'meditation' and more 'physical therapy' and was developed by a physician named Edward Jacobson in the 1920's. It remains popular with Physical Therapists to this very day. What is progressive muscle relaxation? Progressive muscle relaxation is an effective method for treating stress and anxiety. Concentrating on relaxing your muscles makes it harder to think about stressful problems and events. Progressive muscle relaxation is also a way to relax muscles that have become tense from chronic stress. When you do these exercises you focus on specific muscle groups, one at a time, tensing and relaxing each group while breathing slowly and deeply. Additional information: http://www.wikieducator.org/Stress_managem...scle_relaxation http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacobson%27s_...scle_Relaxation It's very useful to help with relaxing, and I often use it to put myself to sleep if I'm having trouble. It's also not spiritual at all, and should pose no worries to your fear of being 'invaded' as it's a form of physical therapy, and not meditation. It might be right up your alley, and you don't have to worry about 'demons' invading with it that I'm aware. It's presented in a soothing manner, and focuses on physical sensation, nothing spiritual. As I mentioned, while relaxing, I wouldn't call it meditation either. It could be just the sort of thing you're looking for. Nothing spiritual here, just about relaxing through non spiritual means. Note the edu in a lot of the links, many of the links come from Universities, not spiritual or religious sources. Here are a few free MP3 downloads. Right click and 'Save as' the links on these pages to download. http://www.hws.edu/studentlife/counseling_relax.aspx http://www.umw.edu/cas/psychservices/resou...ises_downl1.php [AVI file] http://vcc.asu.edu/relax/index.shtml http://www.archive.org/details/CandiRaudeb...axationExercise http://blip.tv/file/1174077 http://blip.tv/file/1223148/ I personally find a female voice helps with me personally, but preferences on that matter may differ. I recommend trying all of these, and finding which suits you best be it one or a few. There are some spiritual gurus who also employ the technique, so there are some more spiritual forms of it out there, but it's legitimate physical therapy. I don't believe that any of the examples I've given are of a spiritual nature. Given your situation, if you're just looking for a way to help you relax, this may be the best option for you. I hope this helps. Good luck with your relaxing. There is also another type of PMR that doesn't involve tensing of muscles but rather just focusing on relaxing particular muscle groups without tensing them. I personally didn't care for that kind of PMR much, though, there are a few examples of this in the links i provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 that could work...i don't know if i'll be able to relax my mind though. that's when i was told the demons come in...i know, but i just can't get rid of that fear (that's ocd for ya). I have never heard of the idea that meditation brings on demon possession. However I have a Christian uncle who was into New Age stuff for a while when he attended college back in the 60's, and he said to my grandmother that some people in a yoga class he attended had actually meditated themselves into a deep coma and had to be rushed to the hospital. My uncle's Christian friends told him that they knew of people who meditated themselves into a vegetative state, and died a few years later, so he quit yoga class after a few months. My grandmother always warned me about meditation due to what my uncle had told her about his yoga classes, but I'm still thinking of taking yoga next year for the fitness aspects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted June 10, 2009 Super Moderator Share Posted June 10, 2009 My uncle's Christian friends told him that they knew of people who meditated themselves into a vegetative state, and died a few years later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 To a fundamentalist Christian any practice belonging to another religion, including yoga and meditation, is of the devil. In their magical way of thinking, if you only follow Christian practices such as prayer and Bible reading nothing much bad can ever happen to you, but if you take up the practices of another religion you are on the road to ruin. I told my fundy mother yesterday on the phone I was going to take up yoga. Her response was dead silence. That is her method of disapproval. Lol if she only knew the whole truth. Getting back to the OPs question, if you come from a fundamentalist Christian background, you really do have to give yourself permission to do meditation or try other practices like this. You have to abandon the idea that these practices will do you harm. Actually Christian contemplative prayer is not much different from eastern meditation and it is taught in the Catholic Church. I went to a sort of monastery place where the nuns taught it. It wasn't threatening at all except that after the meditation people were expected to say something and i am not good with discussing in groups. The type of meditation was similar to reciting a mantra, except it was a Christian term and not a Sanskrit one. I think I realized that historically there was meditation in the Christian church and that lessened the idea that it was demon inspired. In one fundamentalist Baptist church I went to they even had a martial arts class of some sort. They somehow managed to Christianize it. I don't know what went on there, but the idea is sort of laughable. There are many different types of meditation. I never actually believed meditation was inspired by the devil. I guess I just didn't buy that part of the package. I have been a spiritual seeker for many years. Technically I am now Buddhist, but I don't like labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davka Posted June 10, 2009 Share Posted June 10, 2009 Hey guys, this time i am wondering about your opinion on meditation. I think this can be a great tool that can help me to deal with my OCD and phobias, but i can't let myself relax my mind, because any time I do i feel like i'll be demonically possessed, as this is what I was taught in my church. I even tried yoga but my fear is back and I can't go to class anymore. How did you explain that issue to yourself, and gave yourself a permission to start meditating? How I explained the issue to myself was pretty simple: if there's a God, and s/he loves me, then s/he won't let the demons get me just because I'm looking for techniques to help me find peace. Here's a suggestion that might help - one form of meditation involves silently repeating a "mantra," a word or phrase whose purpose is to give the"autopilot" part of your mind something to do while you focus your awareness or mindfulness on the HereNow. Since it really doesn't matter what word or phrase you use (sorry TMers and Nichiren Shoshu Buddhists - get over yourselves), why not use the name of Jesus as your mantra? That might help your OCD fears to shut up, and it certainly won't hurt anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughtyhamster Posted June 11, 2009 Share Posted June 11, 2009 What silliness! Your Uncle did this in the 60s? Is it possible they went into comas because they ODed on some "mind-expanding" drug??? Demon possession, comas, death....from yoga. Whatever churches teach this stuff are dangerous for the health! Rubbish! I guess those people who went into a coma must have been doing some heavy drugs before coming to class to heighten their meditation experience. A Catholic friend of mine had to do yoga as part of her therapy for recovery from brain surgery due to a stroke, and I joked around with her about the coma bit as she said the meditation part of it put her to sleep as it bored her so much. Still, she actually got strong enough to go back to school ( though she had to go to special ed classes since she lost a lot of her memory from the stroke) from her experience with doing yoga as part of her physical therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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