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RationalOkie

Don't Believe In Evolution?....give Us Your Theory Christians

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Do you have no comments on my truthful, relevant, and kind post post for you End?

 

I feel so unappreciated. :Hmm::grin:

 

I am with you LR, both you and I put out the distinct difference in the question, yet both of our concise opinions were dismissed for lack of a real anwswer....did you hear that Okie....lack of a real answer.....oh, and I am delusional, I forget.

 

how was that Legion?

 

Sorry.

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Guest end3
Do you have no comments on my truthful, relevant, and kind post post for you End?

 

I feel so unappreciated. :Hmm::grin:

 

I am with you LR, both you and I put out the distinct difference in the question, yet both of our concise opinions were dismissed for lack of a real anwswer....did you hear that Okie....lack of a real answer.....oh, and I am delusional, I forget.

 

how was that Legion?

 

Sorry.

 

You haven't been here long enough RO, I am just teasing.....please don't take it wrong.

 

I do have a serious thought and would like your thoughts.....in my mind, Heaven/God holds objective truth. I picture that as being truth without change.....I don't know that I can really imagine that, but hold it as a concept.

 

Do you think objective truth contains the aspects/qualities of evolution? Would you expect evolution to be present in objective truth?

 

Seriously, I appreciate the conversation.

 

End

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I want to hear from Christians who don't believe in Evolution. Tell us in detail what you believe.

 

"I believe what the Bible say's" does NOT COUNT.

 

RO,

 

I am hesitant to jump too deeply into this one as I am already trying to keep up with two other threads and as you know, I am outnumbered on this site so I get behind on posts to me pretty quickly. So, let me ask you a question to begin. Could you please define what you mean by evolution and please be as detailed as possible. Based upon your answer I may have some additional questions or I may jump in with some thoughts, I will have to see what my time permits.

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I do have a serious thought and would like your thoughts.....in my mind, Heaven/God holds objective truth. I picture that as being truth without change.....I don't know that I can really imagine that, but hold it as a concept.

 

Do you think objective truth contains the aspects/qualities of evolution? Would you expect evolution to be present in objective truth?

 

End - Not trying to frustrate you here, but I really don't want to answer that on this thread. I'll make you a deal. If you take this to another thread under General Theological Issues, I'll post my answer there. Keep in mind I am NOT a philosopher, but I've been an Atheist for a very long time and I'm comfortable with giving you my opinion on that topic.

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I want to hear from Christians who don't believe in Evolution. Tell us in detail what you believe.

 

"I believe what the Bible say's" does NOT COUNT.

 

RO,

 

I am hesitant to jump too deeply into this one as I am already trying to keep up with two other threads and as you know, I am outnumbered on this site so I get behind on posts to me pretty quickly. So, let me ask you a question to begin. Could you please define what you mean by evolution and please be as detailed as possible. Based upon your answer I may have some additional questions or I may jump in with some thoughts, I will have to see what my time permits.

 

According to LNC how did life come about on planet earth? I'm not suckering you in, it's just that simple.

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I want to hear from Christians who don't believe in Evolution. Tell us in detail what you believe.

 

"I believe what the Bible say's" does NOT COUNT.

 

RO,

 

I am hesitant to jump too deeply into this one as I am already trying to keep up with two other threads and as you know, I am outnumbered on this site so I get behind on posts to me pretty quickly. So, let me ask you a question to begin. Could you please define what you mean by evolution and please be as detailed as possible. Based upon your answer I may have some additional questions or I may jump in with some thoughts, I will have to see what my time permits.

 

According to LNC how did life come about on planet earth? I'm not suckering you in, it's just that simple.

 

He's baiting you. He wants you to give your summary understanding of ToE so that he can derail the thread and turn this into another critique using psuedo science. I agree. LNC, tell us how god created life as we know it. If you want to know how scientists explain it, go to talkorigins.org

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According to LNC how did life come about on planet earth? I'm not suckering you in, it's just that simple.
I'd love for LNC to explain the existence of Neanderthals with creationism.

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Guest Davka
Why would you look at Genesis and not take it symbolically? For example, it says that the animals were before man in the order of creation. Why would they not have written it down the other way, man first?

It also says that day and night were before the sun and moon in the order of creation. Now, if a "day" isn't a single revolution of the Earth in relation to the sun, then what is it? And if there is no sun, how can the Earth revolve in relation to it?

 

Genesis is beyond symbolic, it's nonsensical even as allegory. It's just another creation myth. There are lots of them, you could learn a lot in an anthropology 101 class.

 

Get thee to a University!

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C'mon LNC, hop in here. Give us your theory of how life on planet Earth came about.

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C'mon LNC, hop in here. Give us your theory of how life on planet Earth came about.

 

Listen, I asked a simple question. There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

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C'mon LNC, hop in here. Give us your theory of how life on planet Earth came about.

 

Listen, I asked a simple question. There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

 

 

Nice try. Just answer the question. Give us your theory of how life on planet Earth came about.

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There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

 

I'd say firstly, lets make a clear distinction between evolution vs. ambiogenisis.

 

Ambiogenesis = theory of how life began.

Evolution = theory of how life came to be found in it's present form.

 

That's pretty broad, but I'd say it's a start and will avoid the whole "Evolution doesn't explain how rocks turned into humans!" argument that usually get's pulled out.

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C'mon LNC, hop in here. Give us your theory of how life on planet Earth came about.

 

Listen, I asked a simple question. There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

 

You are missing the whole point of this thread. No one asked you to debate ToE. We asked you to provide your explanation, not your critique; there's a big difference. You don't need to know anyone else's position on the matter to provide your own do you?

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There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

 

I'd say firstly, lets make a clear distinction between evolution vs. ambiogenisis.

 

Ambiogenesis = theory of how life began.

Evolution = theory of how life came to be found in it's present form.

 

That's pretty broad, but I'd say it's a start and will avoid the whole "Evolution doesn't explain how rocks turned into humans!" argument that usually get's pulled out.

 

This thread IS NOT about Evolution....PERIOD! I asked LNC to Give us his theory of how life on planet Earth came about. I didn't say ANYTHING about Evolution.

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Listen, I asked a simple question. ... There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

So, turning the tables are we? That's your answer?

 

The question was YOUR theory, not the evolutionary theory. So the question is not: what do you think about Evolution. But the question is: What is your alternative explanation instead of Evolution, and explain your alternative in detail.

 

Why do you need any of the other theories you don't believe in to explain the theory that you do believe in? Unless you're just trying to avoid the question?

 

So again, the thread isn't about the position of RO, or the evidence of Evolution, but rather what is YOUR evidence for Not-Evolution.

 

But I guess that's too complicated for you understand. Even with your degrees and education and all. :shrug:

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Guest Davka
C'mon LNC, hop in here. Give us your theory of how life on planet Earth came about.

 

Listen, I asked a simple question. There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

I'll play.

 

Evolution does not directly deal with the origin of life from non-life. That's called abiogenesis, and although evolutionary biologists are working on the problem, it is not, strictly speaking, part of the theory of evolution.

 

What evolutionary theory does address is the progression of life from simple forms into more complex forms, and the division of complex forms into distinct species.

 

One of the difficulties in deciding when evolution began has to do with the question of what is life and what is not life. This is a more difficult question than you might think. The earliest form of proto-life is thought to be a virus-like molecular chain. But whether this was true life, or whether true life only came when cellular walls evolved, is an open question. And how those first virus-like chains came into being is not, strictly speaking, a part of the theory of evolution.

 

Most people who accept the theory of evolution also accept that life began when complex chains formed such that automatic replication of those chains would naturally occur. Whether or not God was involved is irrelevant, as it is in all branches of science. Science properly deals with the how, not the why of life, the universe, and everything. Unless the why can lead to a how, it's a pointless question as far as science is concerned.

 

So that's how science says life began, and how species originated. How do you say it happened?

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No worries Okie. I was just looking to make sure we were all on the same page.

 

Go about your business everyone...

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You guy's are killing me.... :lmao:

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Guest Marty
I can imagine evolution as is described (and comprehended by my misunderstandings thereof), but I feel it would have taken a darn long time to move from nothing to where we are.

 

You don't consider 4.5 million years a darn long time? A million years is a thousand thousand year time periods. Seems pretty long time frame to me. :shrug:

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Guest Marty
In Genesis, it also says animals were before man. Is it just a coincedence that the author got this 50/50 question right?

 

Genesis also says that plants came before the sun, and that light came before the sun and moon (as if the moon gave it's own light).

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In Genesis, it also says animals were before man. Is it just a coincedence that the author got this 50/50 question right?

 

Genesis also says that plants came before the sun, and that light came before the sun and moon (as if the moon gave it's own light).

 

 

Well, 70 posts into the debate and we still don't have THE CHRISTIAN ALTERNATIVE TO SCIENCE'S EVOLUTION.

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Well, 70 posts into the debate and we still don't have THE CHRISTIAN ALTERNATIVE TO SCIENCE'S EVOLUTION.

Of course not. Because they can only say "magic did it" or pick at details in the scientific theory. But to come up with any viable explanation on their own...

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One of the difficulties in deciding when evolution began has to do with the question of what is life and what is not life. This is a more difficult question than you might think.

I believe this is absolutely correct Davka. Why are living things alive? It has proven to be a formidable question.

 

If you're interested, check out the thread I started here in the science forum entitled "Complexity and closure to efficient cause".

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You are missing the whole point of this thread. No one asked you to debate ToE. We asked you to provide your explanation, not your critique; there's a big difference. You don't need to know anyone else's position on the matter to provide your own do you?

 

The title of this thread is "Don't Believe In Evolution?....give Us Your Theory Christians" so I am trying to get a definition of evolution to determine whether I believe in it or not. Since different people have different definitions of evolution, I am just trying to clarify since I believe in some definitions of evolution, but not all. I think it is only fair that I get your definition so that I can tell you whether I believe in your version, otherwise, we could be talking about two completely different concepts.

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There are different ideas about evolution and in order to make sure that I am discussing and debating your ideas, it only seems fair that you lay them out for me. For example, let's start with the origin of life; do you believe that evolution accounts for that origin or, as many evolutionists understand it, do you believe that evolution only accounts for the development of that which is already alive? There is a simple starting place for you to help me to understand your position.

 

I'd say firstly, lets make a clear distinction between evolution vs. ambiogenisis.

 

Ambiogenesis = theory of how life began.

Evolution = theory of how life came to be found in it's present form.

 

That's pretty broad, but I'd say it's a start and will avoid the whole "Evolution doesn't explain how rocks turned into humans!" argument that usually get's pulled out.

 

This thread IS NOT about Evolution....PERIOD! I asked LNC to Give us his theory of how life on planet Earth came about. I didn't say ANYTHING about Evolution.

 

If this thread is not about evolution, then why is it titled, "Don't Believe In Evolution?....give Us Your Theory Christians"? It seems that evolution is a part of the discussion.

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