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Goodbye Jesus

Wannabe Martyrs?...starting To Understand


Mutate

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I read in a Karen Armstrong book that when Constantine took Xianity into the big-time, there were Xians who were actually disapointed because they were "desperate to be martyrs".

 

I always wondered how early Xianity ever got converts - how could people be willing to lay down their lives if it was false? I think I'm starting to understand. Some people are so desperate for drama and attention, or to be seen as self sacrificing. Even to THAT extreme.

 

I can understand how it must have sucked to not be rebellious anymore - it must have been like some obscure band you like in an underground club suddenly get big and everyone likes them so you're not special anymore.

 

But "desperate to be martyred" most Xians I know would like to imagine that they could be prepared to give up their lives, in some fantasy scenario like a facist dictator forcing them to recant or die. But desperate? That was a main point of belief, I thought that Xianity had be real to get early converts who were prepared to die. But they were loving it.

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I'd have to look but from the top of my head the thing about martyrs was that a person could not commit suicide. This was essentially a throw back to Judaism (and we still have this stigma today). But one could be killed in the name of "god" (as it were...for the cause...however you want to say it since I can't think of the best way to put it) and this would be considered not only a "righteous" death but essentially the most righteous death. So suicide screwed you over. Dying a believer was good. Being martyred placed you at the top of the list at the after party.

 

Suicide needed to be demonized for logical reasons. If dying put you into heaven with "god" and all that good shit why not snuff yourself and take the express chariot to paradise? Obviously, this would end the movement pretty quickly...like most suicide cults...so it's a no-go.

 

So the martyr's would come in a get wasted by the evil empire and take the express chariot plus they'd demonstrate the "truth" of the religion to the bystanders. If people are willing to die for this stupid superstition, well then, there just might be something to it. So martyr's are a win-win under the right circumstances.

 

Once the religion was given the thumbs up the martyr's standing outside by the velvet rope got all sad because they weren't going to be able to take the quick trip to the party after all. Not only that but once in they weren't heading for the super cool part of the club but just the regular part with the rest of the clowns. Unless something special happened it was all over for them. Just another face in the crowd.

 

This is why they were disappointed. They didn't necessarily want to die some gruesome fate but they wanted to get the perks that came with it. You gotta do what you gotta do. This was their claim to fame (in this life they might become a famous martyr and in the next they're rubbing shoulders with the greats). Now they're average Joe Xian. Sheeple.

 

I don't know if anyone ever admitted any of this. Xians are quite the (faux) humble crowd after all.

 

mwc

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Mutate I think you’re on to something here. My Dad who is a fundy was doing the whole martyr ego trip for a while. He would do “selfless” acts for others, but all the while resentment was growing in him when others failed to acknowledge his sacrifice.

 

I think the martyr ego trip is among the strongest motives for Christians.

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The only thing I'm willing to give up my life for is in defense of my family. Everything else, eh, maybe we can work something out.

It burns me that the "martyr" numbnuts will never wake up to know how fucking wrong they were. 'Tain't fair.

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Guest Davka

I remember studying about the shift from early Christianity to the beginnings of the RCC - there was a big fight among Christians, seems some of them didn't want to accept anyone who had not suffered for their faith. But the majority of Christians at that time had compromised and hidden or even denied Christ in order to avoid persecution. So there was this whole dichotomy between the persecuted martyr-types and the more rational cowardly types. Being a rational cowardly type got you branded as "not a true Christian."

 

I suspect that much of the fervor for martyrdom was among teenaged idiots wanting to "prove" themselves as True ChristiansTM. And a few suicidal lunatics thrown in for good measure? Sure, why not?

 

Also, think about the reaction of fairly new Christians to the news that Christians were no longer going to be used as lion bait: Internally they be thinking "phew, I dodged a bullet!" but on the outside they be all "woe is me, I was all ready to be martyred for Christ and now that will never happen. Oh, the humanity!"

 

IOW, it was a way to prove yourself a True ChristianTM without all that messy blood and screaming.

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I always thought it ironic that martyrs for the faith were dragged out on parade to demonstrate that because of it, Christianity had to be true as no one would be willing to die for a falsehood. Of course, the best known martyrs for the faith today are Muslims. And let's not forget the Japanese in WW2. They believed the Emeror was divine and that dieing in battle would make themselves something like gods. Obviously their faith must be true using this same stupid Christian logic.

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Martyrdom takes away the responsibility of living well, and promises greater rewards and greater 'closeness' to the divine. It is a sacrifice that not only brings attention to that person and their family, but it makes the commitment to the divine far more real than prayer.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Martyrdom became such a problem among believers that people were scorned if they went out just to seek martyrdom. If you sought out to be a martyr, you did not get that "express chariot" to heaven.

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