If God Made His Existence Known, Meaning Satan, Hell, Heaven, All Existed, Who Would You Worship?

[DarthOkkata]

As it was put on a Youtube comment for 'Jesus Did Exist' by 'Fighitng Atheist'. The video is about whether or not Jesus was a real person, and well, his arguments for it have been torn to shreds here already. Still, I've been poking my nose around the comment board there for a while now for no good reason other than it's been an entertaining and long lived comment thread going on something like 4,400 posts.

 

This is the poll question:

 

I have a question for the atheists. ( I am christian by the way) If God really did make his existence known, meaning Satan, hell, heaven, etc. all existed, would you rather worship God or Satan? A lot of atheists I know said Satan. What do you all think?

 

So, what what do you really think?

 

What would you pick?

 

I'm looking to confirm of counter this claim. Seems suspect to me, but the polls shall speak for themselves on the matter.

 

I have a suspicion this idiot is lying, but would prefer honest answers.

 

Actual data can go a long way to shove someone's foot into their mouth. The more responses the better. Though, the poll itself specifies Atheists, Christians can feel free to comment on results or any discussion resulting from it.

 

I do ask that they not taint the data pool though. Honor system and all that.

[Naiya]

It would have to be Satan. I'm sorry but for one thing Satan is smarter than God. Look at the story of Job. Satan convinces God to destroy the life and happiness of his favorite human over bet, and then when God is proven right, Satan goes "yeah, you sure showed me, heh heh heh."

 

Not to mention in Eden, Satan was the one who wanted humans to have the knowledge necessary for free will--not God's intention. Free will, which is prized above all else for many Christians and used as God's excuse for never helping anyone. And Satan basically got his way when God fell for it and punished humans even though God set them up just as much as Satan did.

 

Oh, and compared to the 10 people Satan killed in the Bible (and only with God's permission of course!), God racked up over two million kills

 

And finally, why the hell was God such a hand-on god back in the day, but now now? If too many guys were succumbing to Teh Ghey God rained down fireballs. When Hitler and Stalin were doing mass murders, God didn't rain down some awesome fireballs to smite them. What the hell? Did he get bored of his toys? Fall asleep?

 

 

TBH I strongly lean towards Satanism in general (not the moronic goth in the basement kind, the philosophical kind). To quote a great website on the subject (which I will link to below):

 

Devil worship is the expression of ardent love, devotion, or reverence (i.e., "worship") toward a cultural scapegoat figure (i.e., a "Devil") that is reclaimed as a slandered divinity. It is not the worship of "evil" per se, but rather an attack against all purely dualistic "good vs. evil" or "black and white" rhetoric. It is also called theistic Satanism, though I would elaborate that this is only appropriate when the particular Devil being celebrated is called Satan. (And as shall be explained elsewhere on this website, there is far more than just one entity out there that can be called "Satan.")

 

But by inciting doubt, Devils put humans into situations in which we are forced to re-thinkeverything we believe. And by inspiring humans to put themselves before "God" or "the gods," they cause us to move away from authoritarian dogma and superstition. Thus, Devils are not so much "evil spirits," but rather slandered heroes who champion humanism and intellectual power. As the Powers of Darkness, they may often seem dark and spooky; as the "Gods of Godlessness," they may seem socially unacceptable. But they are really only "evil" in the eyes of conventional opinion-makers, who want humans to remain as gullible and superstitious (and controllable) as possible. Objectively speaking, nothing in existence is either completely "good" or completely "evil."

 

 

Full article I quoted

 

 

Diane Vera's Website

 

Of course after all that I have to ask what the worship would entail. Realistically speaking I would keep my mouth shut, and watch how both God and Satan behave. If it turns out they're both power-hungry psychopaths, then I'll pass on both.

[OpheliaGinger]

Well, if the god Yahweh is proven to be real, that would mean, by defacto, that Satan would prove to be real--that is when I wold align myself with Satan. I would not imagine that I would gain any special treatment for doing so, just that I would be making a strong statement that I reject God.

 

By-the-way, aren't we atheists/agnostics Satanists anyways?

[Guest Davka]

It would depend on how God and Satan answered a whole bunch of questions. If they turned out to be real, I'd have to assume that the Bible account of both is wrong, because it's too damned contradictory. So I'm not voting - I'd follow whichever one turned out to be the good guy.

[DarthOkkata]

Well, given that this is a Christian asking. I'm looking at it in a 'Bible God' and 'Christian Beliefs are correct' kind of context.

 

So, for all intents and purposes, the implication in the question as it's posed by the one asking is:

 

God is as he's portrayed as in the Bible.

 

Satan is as well.

 

This question is posed to be that Christian beliefs are correct, and the Bible is literally true. Though, it is perhaps poorly worded.

 

So, Satan in the context of the question would be either God's personal bitch and prosecuting Attorney or the enemy of God and Lord of Lies and Evil Prince of Darkness, the 'beast' in Revelations and enemy who wants to drag as many people as he can into eternal suffering in the lake of fire forever with him.

 

So, it's not really asking if Deistic God is real, or if Humanist Satan were real, who would you follow? Rather if Christianity was proven right, and the Bible was beyond doubt literally true, or at least the Christian ideas about God and Satan were proven correct, who would you follow?

 

That's the implication of what the question is supposed to mean as I gathered.

[Ouroboros]

I don't think I would worship either. I can't see a reason why a dominant being needs to have his ego stroked by us, the small beings on a tiny planet in a huge-huge universe. God would have to give me a reason why he needs to be adored. And why should he be "raised up" in any sense, since he's already supreme and all powerful?

[Naiya]

So, it's not really asking if Deistic God is real, or if Humanist Satan were real, who would you follow? Rather if Christianity was proven right, and the Bible was beyond doubt literally true, or at least the Christian ideas about God and Satan were proven correct, who would you follow?

 

That's the implication of what the question is supposed to mean as I gathered.

 

Oh. Then in this case...neither.

[Legion]

If it was shown that I am Lucky the Leprechaun, would you still try to steal me lucky charms?

[Guest ephymeris]

In the context of bible god vs. bible satan, I choose none of the above. I wouldn't worship either of them. I've seen how god chooses to "favor" righteous men and as for satan, what have you done for me lately? Nuttin' that's what. These epic deities are too busy to be concerned with me and I've got temporal constraints as well. I don't have time to waste on these sociopaths.

[florduh]

I tried thinking about this but I can't give an answer. It's like asking me if Harry Potter and Peter Pan were real, which one would be your BFF. I can't move it out of the nonsense category in my head.

[Guest Davka]

It's like asking me if Harry Potter and Peter Pan were real, which one would be your BFF.

I like this question better. Although I suspect the answer would probably have something to do with your sexual orientation.

[OpheliaGinger]

I tried thinking about this but I can't give an answer. It's like asking me if Harry Potter and Peter Pan were real, which one would be your BFF. I can't move it out of the nonsense category in my head.

 

I would have to go for Harry Potter because after a while, the whole remaining a child will get on your nerves. Oh wait, you meant that rhetorically.

[agnosticator]

It's like asking me if Harry Potter and Peter Pan were real, which one would be your BFF.

I like this question better. Although I suspect the answer would probably have something to do with your sexual orientation.

 

Wasn't Michael Jackson the incarnation of Peter Pan? :wink:

[ghostchild]

These days I find the entire concept of worshiping something completely offensive. I don't really think that this is arrogance on my part, either. Just because something is inordinately more powerful, we should worship it? Is it so very wrong to wish to be independent beings, free to choose our own path in life with no big boss looking in and deciding if we did good or bad? it's not *their* life, and we didn't ask to be bloody created. If god exists, and acts like bible god, then frankly, I'd prefer to never have existed in the first place. Talk about hellish.

 

At best, the devil feels exactly the same way. Try reading Paradise Lost. At worst, Satan is god's dark side. Why would you worship a being that's just god's assassin and part time fall guy?

 

And even if a god were perfect, all knowing, truly benevolent, and out to help us in any way he could? I still wouldn't worship them. Might try to get to know god, be friends, pay some respect, but worship? that's... so weird to me now. I can't imagine respecting a being that would want that from me.

[Dagan]

I didn't vote because the way God, Satan, heaven and hell are presented in the bible is just too contradictory. It all depends on which book from which time period you choose to look at.

 

Satan doesn't even show up until the book of Job (it was a serpent, not the devil in the form of a serpent, or Satan in the form of a serpent, that tempted Adam and Eve) and his role is unclear throughout the Old Testament. He seems to be a personification of an opposing view (a devil's advocate, haha) hence the name "Satan" which means "adversary."

 

But the real good-versus-evil God-versus-Satan stuff only shows up in the New Testament, after the Jews had hundreds of years to absorb Zoroastrianism into their belief system. Zoroastrianism is light versus dark, Ormazd versus Ahriman, and has such features as lakes of fire, eternal torment, etcetera.

 

So if they both were real as the poll question asks I would wait it out and see who is less evil, I suppose, because they're both pretty much bastards.

[Rev R]

Since there wasn't an option for beating either around the head and neck with a crowbar...I suppose I have to go with neither is worthy.

 

 

and Legion...damn straight I'd be stealing your Lucky Charms.

[Guest Melodramy]

I wouldn't worship either character. If some creature out there could even enjoy the "worship" of itself by puny mortal beings, it is already wholly repugnant to me.

[oddbird1963]

I'm thinking it would be a bona fide miracle if the christian version of the bible god turned out to be true. So much of christian doctrine is contrived and then biblical interpretation is retrofitted to make the doctrines appear authoritative.

 

There are so many evolutions of the concept of a god throughout the bible, the question is "Which bible god do you want to worship?" As far as satan, it is a christian reinterpretation to make the accuser of Job into the satan of catholic and later protestant theology. So the same question applies: which "satan" are you wanting to either despise or worship?

 

I'm abstaining from this poll, but I will entertain a poll about whether I'd rather own a round square or a spherical pyramid.

[chefranden]

"If God Made His Existence Known, Meaning Satan, Hell, Heaven, All Existed,..."

 

I'm pretty sure that a non-existent being cannot make his existence known.

 

However from a story perspective there is a curious side note. Consider the following: 1. Satan and 1/3 of the angels rebelled. 2. Satan and crew lost the war. 3. The victors write the history.

 

I don't know what angels are like, but humans generally don't rebel. It usually takes a lot of shit from the rulers/ruler before a mass rises against the rulers/ruler. If the rebellion succeeds, the sins of the ruler are duly exposed. If the rebellion fails the rebels are demonized and the sins of ruler remain hidden.

 

Now I can't imagine that in a perfect place such as heaven is storied to be there would be anything to rebel over. Why would anyone want to take over? To make the place more perfect? In fact in a perfect place, what would be the role of any ruler? To preserve the perfection perhaps? No, because if anything is lurking to undo the perfection, the place is not perfect.

 

In order for there to have been a rebellion heaven must have been an imperfect place to live. Satan must have seen room for improvement. Considering the despotic behavior of God in the bible, one might venture a guess that God is also a despotic asshole in heaven as well.

 

Even if Satan is a dick that doesn't mean that his enemy isn't a dick as well. Most wars upon the earth are fought between dicks for the title of Dick of Dicks. Which ever dick wins everyone else is still dicked.

 

Therefore I wouldn't worship either. I feel sure that I would be able to stay under the dickdar, and ignore them both.

[Mriana]

I hate to say this, but the question makes no sense. I mean, OK you maybe speaking of the Xian deity, but what about all the other human concepts? Which God? Or if one exists, why don't all of them exist? By the same token, if Satan exists, why doesn't Shiva- the destroyer who also creates things too or some other bad ass mythical "person"?

 

OK that posted before I was ready, but yes I know, I'm being a pain in the butt, but it makes no sense otherwise and is very bias.

[DarthOkkata]

I agree with the assessments about God, and that there's no clear picture, and that the idea gradually evolved, etc. However, the idiot in question was claiming that 'most Atheist' would choose Satan.

 

My experience is that's just not true. Sure some do, but they generally aren't thinking of Satan in the same terms as Christians see him.

 

People who would 'side' with Satan in this type of debate don't see him as the 'evil' option. Rather, they are skeptical that he's really the 'bad guy' in the equation. Rather as a humanist, or sympathetic rebel, or something similar as opposed to the 'enemy of all that lives and Lord of Evil and Darkness'.

 

The question implies a very narrow view of God and Satan. It's essentially an attempt to ask: 'Are you a good and decent person, or an evil douche who hates everything good?' without being so direct.

 

That's why there is a 'none of the above' option in the poll. [Neither]

 

I was just taking the opportunity to slap someone in the face for being dishonest and spreading misinformation based on assumption and bias more or less. It seemed as if it was intentionally put fourth as an attempt to show Atheist as evil, and that most of them would side with evil on purpose if given the choice. Just to be defiant and spit in righteous, just, loving, and merciful God's face out of some sort of spite.

 

That really isn't the case. They don't understand that we don't see their God in that light at all. We see him as a barbaric primitive monster, and just as evil as they see Satan based upon his actions in the Bible.

 

They also don't understand that Jesus, his resurrection, and dying for our sins, and all that other stuff is neither unusual, or particularly original as far as religious beliefs go. It has been done before, and done better, by other faiths before them.

 

Christians have a way of trying to dress up such arguments to make them sound nice, while implying their true motivations under the surface so they can nod and feel self righteous about the answers as if they knew all along and it proves their views true.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how they can't understand the Atheist's views.

 

It's not that difficult, they are all Atheist as well when it comes to any other God but Jesus and his Dad.

 

We just lump them in with all the other Gods they don't believe in as well. It's exactly the same as the way they view Zeus, Odin, Horus, Krishna, Mithra, Crom, Buddha, Allah, or any other deity you might be able to name who isn't the spiritual 'Three Musketeers' that make up JC, Dad, and their invisible Spirit Friend.

[Karhoof]

I went with the Neither option.

I'm not going to the grave on my knees.

 

 

Funny though, I actually had a christian ask me this. I responded with a question of my own.

"How long would you stand before a completely different god before you admitted that you were wrong?"

 

Of course he told me, "There are no other gods!"

[Mriana]

Exactly DarthOkkata. There are just too many different thoughts and concepts concerning that question and I am tempted to say, "Define God", "Define Satan" and ask several different questions. That said, I have to say "neither" because the concept most Xians pick would not be my preference of a deity or bad ass.

[mwc]

If it was shown that I am Lucky the Leprechaun, would you still try to steal me lucky charms?

If you're the REAL Lucky then change your Lucky Charms back to the way they were 30 years ago to when they tasted good. Then we'll talk about my stealing them.

 

mwc

[Guest theINC]

Interesting concept, however, I think the Christian poster has manipulated the question in such a way that he's trying to make all Atheists seem like horrible people.

 

The thing is, that the God of the Old Testament (who is still the same God we have here, regardless of what some apologists will tell you!) was an absolute butthole, telling people to kill their kids just to 'test their faith', causing wars.

 

My theory (not of belief but one that I've liked) has always been, perhaps Satan is God? Perhaps Satan invented all the things like sex and rock'n'roll music to keep us happy on this earth, and then ostracized God who wanted to stop this from happening, and then God started his own religion that discourages people from partaking in the things Satan put here for us? God starting a slander campaign against Satan that eventually gets bigger and wipes out Satan's own...

Could happen