Deva Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 My brother died last week after a 5 1/2 year battle with leukemia. He was 52 years old. My initial reaction was relief, since he had so many medical procedures and was only being kept alive by blood transfusions the last three months. My family is full of Christian fundys. I did not have a close relationship with my brother, mainly due to geographic distance, but I am pretty darn sure he was not religious. Not a church goer. He was interested in other things like music and restoring antique radios. I drove from Florida to N. Carolina for the funeral. I saw family members I had not seen in 35 years. These people all seem to be fundys. I felt like a freak who was surrounded. My sister-in-law was too distraught to do much arranging of the funeral service so she left it up to my father. My father is a Baptist deacon and like a brick wall when it comes to religion. Its completely black and white - the Bible is the only truth. He is a right wing, Republican, retired military man who likes to give orders, too. I admit that as an adult, I do not care for his company. Anyway, my dad calls in this old Baptist preacher to give a sermon at the funeral. At the service he says "Steve (my brother) trusted Christ". What a joke. I remember Steve at age 16 refusing to attend church. He grew his hair out long, he had a black light poster of a demon in his room and he smoked pot. Basically, a hippie. He got in trouble with the law and caused my parents a hell of a lot of anguish at that time. Their anguish was mostly over his leaving the church. As far as I am aware, he never went back to church. So, this ignorant preacher thinks he "trusted Christ." In your dreams. I think Steve probably would have called himself a Christian but was just not interested in religion. Like a lot of people, he left and then never much thought about it. The rest of the sermon was about how the Bible ought to be back in schools (yes, this is at the funeral!), and how no matter what you do in life if you don't settle the question of your ultimate destiny you are basically a fool. "No man comes to the father but by me" was quoted, someone sang "Amazing Grace" and "The Old Rugged Cross" and it became a shameless bid for converts. If my cousin had not gotten up and talked about my brother, the whole thing would have been a travesty. She did a great job of talking about him as a person. The only reason I went up there was for my mother. She is looking very old and I am not sure this isn't going to kill her soon. She is a fundy too, but I think has a desire to understand me. Both my parents asked that we have a closer relationship. It wasn't the right time, but soon I am going to come out and point blank tell them I am no longer a Christian. There is no way an honest, adult relationship can develop unless this is dragged out into the open. I come away from this whole experience with more resolve than ever to follow my own spiritual path, whatever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 That's a standard funeral in these part unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest end3 Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Note from moderator Loren: End3, I appreciate that you think you care enough to express condolences. HOWEVER, the fact that you couldn't be bothered to stop for two seconds and consider the appropriateness of a damned Christian posting in this forum, taking into account the context of this forum and particularly, the context of DevaLight's grievances, along with the evident fact that you also couldn't be bothered to express your "support" by any of the several private avenues available to you shows how little you actually care, regardless of how much you've managed to convince yourself that you really do care. If a woman was raped by a police officer and found herself in some public place where there were several uniformed cops, and she needed to get them out of her sight by taking refuge in the women's room, and one of these cops actually followed her in there to express "support" for her, would he be showing real concern for her emotions, or pure, unmitigated selfishness disguised as concern? Such an action would be inherently disingenuous in the extreme and the evident selfishness of it ought to fill truly caring people with revulsion. Even if all you've managed to get out of reading in Ex-Christian Life is that some of us were hurt by Christians, you should still have been able to immediately come to the conclusion that for a damned Christian to post here is far from appropriate. I've known a good number of ten-year-olds who were able to reach such a conclusion instantly and without any mental effort or direction from adults. I've known Christians who have read extensively in this forum and actually cried over the pain expressed here, but they were adult enough and genuinely caring enough to have the sensibility to not ever post here. Those Christians were showing true caring. Get the hell out of here! Loren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 My condolences, Deva. Unfortunately, Kyle is right. That sort of thing is more common than not, and it's a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decafaholic Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I'm sorry for your loss AND for the crappy funeral. Thank goodness for your cousin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 I agree with Phanta, Deva. You were strong to sit through all that. Not just the parasitic sermon, but all the social stuff with fundy family and all. What a lot of turmoil from such a number of angles! I'm also sorry that your brother had such a bad quality of life for so long that you would feel relief at his death. That is so damn sad. Loren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShallowByThyGame Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 These stories get me thinking about my relatives possibly dying. It makes me want to make sure I get up there and talk about the secular personality the person had, the one we should be remembering. We tend to envision our funerals as everyone reminiscing about the good times, it would suck if someone was preaching instead. They get that enough on sundays, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Well Deva, what can I say about this fundy preacher? Classless is as classless does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CelticWhisper Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 Well Deva, what can I say about this fundy preacher? Classless is as classless does. Seconded. It makes me wonder if the lie-vendor even knew the first thing about your brother beyond his name. I have the good fortune (if you can call anything related to funerals good fortune) to have had two relatively person-focused funerals in recent years for my father's father and my mother's mother. Granddad's was a Catholic funeral so there was a fair amount of biblical bullshit thrown around but the family is Irish, so there were stories, fond remembrances, and the like as well. For all the religious involvement it was at least, mercifully, not to the exclusion of focusing on the man and his life. Grandma's was even less religious - the brief excerpt from the buybull, read by the career liar at my mother's church, felt very much out of place at a funeral that was otherwise filled with family and friends connecting, sharing stories, etc. There was laughter in the room. And Grandma insisted that Elvis be played the whole time. I'm sorry I can't relate as closely as I'd like, but from hearing many a story about funerals like your brother's, I must say I don't think I necessarily want to be able to relate. The best advice I can offer is to see the prea...erm, professional liar and (optionally, as I know this part can be much harder) your father as wrong, mistaken, gullible, foolish...even pathetic, if it helps. Adopt a "joke's on them" perspective. The injustice of it can sometimes have its edge taken off if you focus on how they were the ones really duped by their own beliefs. Your mileage may vary, but it works for me sometimes. On a slightly grim/twisted note, you might consider striking a deal with another family member or close friend to stand up at your own funeral (hopefully many, many long years from now) and have something ready in case a religious figure is brought in to lie about you. They can announce that they're speaking as part of a long-standing failsafe plan, and then read something of your devising that countermands anything and everything the religious figure has said thus far and calls him (and those who hired him) on the carpet for his crime of lying about the deceased. I know nobody wants to contemplate their own mortality any more than they already are at a time like this, but at the same time the offense is fresh in your mind so it might be a good opportunity to come up with a backup plan for yourself. At any rate, my condolences for your loss and may your brother rest in peace. And if it turns out that the Christians are right after all, consider that your brother's in the company of Darwin, Galileo, Hendrix, Morrison, and all the other great artists, scientists, freethinkers, and generally awesome folks who had the guts to go their own way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 24, 2009 Author Share Posted June 24, 2009 I agree with Phanta, Deva. You were strong to sit through all that. Not just the parasitic sermon, but all the social stuff with fundy family and all. What a lot of turmoil from such a number of angles! I'm also sorry that your brother had such a bad quality of life for so long that you would feel relief at his death. That is so damn sad. Loren Thanks to everyone for their replies. I appreciate it. It was not unexpected that there might be a minister of some type and that he would be a lying fundy. That is the type of thing my family likes. I tried to mentally prepare myself by chanting some mantras in my head, but that didn't really help too much. Yes, I had to stir up all the courage in me that I could muster. Actually there are times when I hate my family. I will openly admit that. I love them, but I hate them for some of the stuff they believe. They live in some kind of perfect Christian world that bears no resemblance to reality. My brother Steve has two children. They are 18 and 23. The older one did not make an appearance at the funeral for his father. The name of the older one was not mentioned except by one person. It was mentioned in passing, to say that another person there had tried to persuade an employer to keep him on at a job when he failed to show up. This 23 year old nephew of mine has some type of mental illness where he won't leave his room. I do not blame Steve or his wife, who had to deal with a horrendous illness over the past five years, but what about the rest of them? CRAP. Maybe he was mentioned by others out of my earshot (there were quite a few people there). I surely do hope so. My point is that anything that isn't just Christian picture perfect has to be swept under the rug and not dealt with. He wasn't mentioned by my parents. Two years ago when I asked about him was the first time I learned anything at all about the situation. My mother said she would like him to see a Christian psychiatrist. I about blew a gasket then. It annoyed the hell out of me that no one mentioned him at the after funeral gathering, in addition to the sermon by the fundy preacher. I guarantee you I am getting to the bottom of this situation. He is my nephew and I am going to make it my business. It is in part due to this family situation that I have recently had to seek counseling for unmanageable stress. I was getting e-mails from my mother almost on a weekly basis about the terrible cancer treatments and what they were doing to my brother. It was a horror show, believe me. That is why I felt relief that he had died. NO one should have to endure what he went through. Even realizing it was his choice to continue with all these "treatments" doesn't help much. I am appalled to think that if my parents outlive me, my funeral would resemble this. "She trusted Christ". I guess if I am dead I won't care, but still. My car battery died 250 miles from home. I also really could have done without that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted June 24, 2009 Share Posted June 24, 2009 It was slightly better that what I thought it could have been at the funeral. Its been known to happen that fundies hyjack a funeral with phrases like, "Though brother soandso lived against the scriptures, we can always hope that he found redemption before the end. Only God can judge us, but it seems like his attitude of sin may have cost him eternal life. I hope this reminds everyone to get saved now while they still have chance..." on and on it goes. I have heard of funerals that talk about the deceased as though they are burning in hell and use the tragedy of the event as a selling point. This isn't any better, since its a flat out lie, but causes less damage to your parents. I mean, how much worse would it have been if the priest went on about how his atheist ways probably sent him to hell for eternity? I can only imagine the awkwardness of the situation. If you figure out how to talk to your parents about your non-belief, let us know. I sure haven't had that conversation yet (though it should be quite obvious to them. Denial is a wonderful(Terrible) thing). I agree with Celtic Whisper that I would want to make sure my funeral is accurate to who I am as a person and not used to manipulate the grief of my family members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 It was slightly better that what I thought it could have been at the funeral. Its been known to happen that fundies hyjack a funeral with phrases like, "Though brother soandso lived against the scriptures, we can always hope that he found redemption before the end. Only God can judge us, but it seems like his attitude of sin may have cost him eternal life. I hope this reminds everyone to get saved now while they still have chance..." on and on it goes. I have heard of funerals that talk about the deceased as though they are burning in hell and use the tragedy of the event as a selling point. Yes, it could certainly have been worse. I can only imagine the awkwardness of the situation. If you figure out how to talk to your parents about your non-belief, let us know. I will keep you posted. I will probably write it rather than say it over the phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Oh Deva, I'm so sorry for your loss and for the additional pain and outraged heaped on you at your brother's funeral. I don't know what else to say but my heart hurts for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noob Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Deva, this is horrible on so many levels that words fail me. I am so sorry that your brother suffered so much, and I am also sorry that you had to endure that awful service. I wish you luck finding out what’s going on with your nephew, and at the same time I feel concerned about how the stress will impact you. Do what you can, but don’t forget to take care of yourself. And then... your car battery... ugh!!! Fondly, noob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L2K Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I agree with Phanta. I'm surprised you were able to sit through that. That's an unfortunate thing that happens to people who have fundy christians for family. No respect for the funeral service, just as long as they can make everyone else think they were christians to help their own social status. Probably is going to happen at my funeral, since my grandfather was an atheist, and had this whole "Robert was really close to Christ" funeral. That kinda stuff makes me sick, but the fundies can get away with it, because there are so damn many of them around. If it were me in that position, I would've gotten up and taken over the funeral service. Dunno if I'm allowed to do that, but hell, I'd try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 That kinda stuff makes me sick, but the fundies can get away with it, because there are so damn many of them around. If it were me in that position, I would've gotten up and taken over the funeral service. Dunno if I'm allowed to do that, but hell, I'd try. Yes, yet the fundys think they are so persecuted and that there is a big conspiracy going on against them. My father and surviving brother were discussing this "conspiracy". They are so right-wing political it would make you gag. My brother likes FOX Network and Bill O'Reilly. I can't listen to Bill for 5 minutes. Anything that might help the environment is part of the "conspiracy" to deprive them of their livlihood or their rights. I don't want to turn this thread into being about politics but just to mention this other aspect as one more reason that I can't possibly communicate with these people. I am totally outgunned. If I were to try to take over the funeral service, I would probably have been escorted out. In addition, I am really a shy introverted person. I am not a loudmouth like some of those persons present there. One of my cousins -- I realized anew why we never really got along as kids. She's a fundy and can't keep her mouth shut. There are no brakes. Nothing but a gossip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Genesis Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Maybe it would be best to just be cremated for your own death and then skip the funeral and your right wing family can have a wake or something for you on their own if they want? I'm planning on donating my own body to science but that's more because the idea of having your body buried under the ground really freaks me out. But it's horrible that they did this to your brother, Deva. Funerals should be about remembering the person that died, not about preaching on a totally unrelated religious/political agenda. Xtians are just so immature that they can't go five minutes without having Jesus mentioned in a conversation so they have to Jesus 24/7 no matter where they go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It's all about hijacking. That's what makes this sort of thing such an outrageous injustice. If there's anything in all of this life that should be seen to truly belong completely to a person, it's their own funeral. To hijack a funeral in this way is nothing less than the worst sort of stealing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 Maybe it would be best to just be cremated for your own death and then skip the funeral and your right wing family can have a wake or something for you on their own if they want? That would be a good plan Neon. I certainly prefer cremation and scattering of ashes to burial. I am not sure how you go about conveying it to the family. I suspect that some good honest communication is in order. I think it would be a tremendous relief to me to be able to honestly come out and say that I am not a Christian. I believe that they suspect it, but I have never actually come out and declared it. I felt the funeral was not the right time, but I am thinking it will be sometime soon. I am sooo glad to be back home. An event such as this does make you appreciate your own life more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 It's all about hijacking. That's what makes this sort of thing such an outrageous injustice. If there's anything in all of this life that should be seen to truly belong completely to a person, it's their own funeral. To hijack a funeral in this way is nothing less than the worst sort of stealing. And the damned Mormons are the worst ones for hijacking. They actually go through their ancestry and baptize them post hum. Glad I was out of the country when my atheist grandfather died. I probably would have blown a gasket had I witnessed the travesty that was surely his funeral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 25, 2009 Author Share Posted June 25, 2009 One thing that preacher said that I agreed with was "there are no mistakes". I don't have a problem with that now, but if I were still a believer I would have had plenty of trouble with it. A perfect, good God and here is what happens? I have no idea how I could possibly reconcile that in my head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rev R Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Apologies for my tardiness... Sorry to hear about your brother Deva. Even with all the other crap, I hope you can take comfort knowing that Steve no longer suffers from his illness. Om shanti shanti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 This 23 year old nephew of mine has some type of mental illness where he won't leave his room. I do not blame Steve or his wife, who had to deal with a horrendous illness over the past five years, but what about the rest of them? CRAP. (...Snip... ) Two years ago when I asked about him was the first time I learned anything at all about the situation. My mother said she would like him to see a Christian psychiatrist. I about blew a gasket then. It annoyed the hell out of me that no one mentioned him at the after funeral gathering, in addition to the sermon by the fundy preacher. I guarantee you I am getting to the bottom of this situation. He is my nephew and I am going to make it my business. I wanted to mention that I love your attitude about your nephew! Anyone who stands up for the vulnerable I consider to be an admirable ally. Loren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 26, 2009 Author Share Posted June 26, 2009 This 23 year old nephew of mine has some type of mental illness where he won't leave his room. I do not blame Steve or his wife, who had to deal with a horrendous illness over the past five years, but what about the rest of them? CRAP. (...Snip... ) Two years ago when I asked about him was the first time I learned anything at all about the situation. My mother said she would like him to see a Christian psychiatrist. I about blew a gasket then. It annoyed the hell out of me that no one mentioned him at the after funeral gathering, in addition to the sermon by the fundy preacher. I guarantee you I am getting to the bottom of this situation. He is my nephew and I am going to make it my business. I wanted to mention that I love your attitude about your nephew! Anyone who stands up for the vulnerable I consider to be an admirable ally. Loren Thanks Loren but its going to be tough. I haven't seen my nephew in over 10 years. At family gatherings it was always "he couldn't make it, or "he couldn't come" with no further explanation. It took me a long time to finally come out and say where is he and what is going on? This is probably because I have had a lot of issues of my own, but when he isn't even able to come to his father's funeral either - wake up call. It might be agrophobia, severe social anxiety, schizoprhenia, who knows? I don't know what you do with someone who is an adult and refuses to see a psychiatrist except to involuntarily commit him. Not a good situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loren Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 It might be agrophobia, severe social anxiety, schizoprhenia, who knows? I don't know what you do with someone who is an adult and refuses to see a psychiatrist except to involuntarily commit him. Not a good situation. But you obviously do know that he certainly does not need a damned Christian psychiatrist. Some Christian psychiatrists are okay. But considering the attitudes and influence of your family, he could easily wind up with some un or semi-trained nut job who would talk to him for thirty minutes and immediately conclude (Using his Christian "discernment," don't you know?) that your nephew has demons or some other nasty and counter-productive shit like that. When your brother was alive, even though he was largely incapacitated for a time, your nephew had two adult, directly related legal guardians. That's not the case now. And your nephew is surrounded by a bunch of people who quite likely need good psychiatric help more than he does, they're just more functional. And it's not unlikely that they will want to step in and give directions on what should happen with him. Who knows how much you actually can do in this situation, but I still love your attitude. It's that wonderful, pissed-off Mama Bear thing. Nobody fucks with a pissed-off Mama Bear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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