sethosayher Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 My friend is currently on the operating table, where neurosurgeons are attempting to remove a cancerous tumor from her brain. It's a 10 hour surgery. I don't know what to do. I mean, there is nothing I can do...which is why prayer seems so tempting. But I know logically it will do nothing. She might survive, she might not. Prayer won't change what happens. But my yearning to do something is driving me crazy... Any insights? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davka Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 My friend is currently on the operating table, where neurosurgeons are attempting to remove a cancerous tumor from her brain. It's a 10 hour surgery. I don't know what to do. I mean, there is nothing I can do...which is why prayer seems so tempting. But I know logically it will do nothing. She might survive, she might not. Prayer won't change what happens. But my yearning to do something is driving me crazy... Any insights? 1) It won't hurt. 2) It might even help: Can Positive Thoughts Help Heal Another Person? 3) Just make sure to cover all the bases - don't limit yourself to YHWH, even if he does have major jealousy issues. I think it's high time he got over himself, personally. 4) The one undeniable possible upside to prayer (or "sending good energy" or whatever) is that it gives you something to do when there's nothing you can do. 5) The unGod of Atheism will not be angry if you pray. There's really no downside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShallowByThyGame Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 Don't pray to God, pray to the surgeon. Oh great Dr. Douglass, who steady hands guide they perfect scalpel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VacuumFlux Posted June 25, 2009 Share Posted June 25, 2009 I get the urge to pray sometimes. Mostly for my friends, when they're broke and I don't have the money to buy them the perfect life. I get less of an urge to pray over emotional issues because I believe they're part of the human experience that we all have to face sometime in order to full know ourselves. Sometimes I brush off the feelings and ask myself what I can do (sometimes it's just be a friend or take them out to dinner). Other times I do pray, just in case there's some benevolent force out there that will honor the fact that I care. Even if there's not, prayer is the only coping mechanism I currently have for strong feelings of compassion mixed with helplessness (other than activism, but that is not always an option). For someone you care about going through a serious medical procedure that you have no skills to contribute to, feel free to pray. You could also (if it doesn't make you feel too much worse) read some medical literature about what they're going through and start planning ways to help them out during their recovery time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ephymeris Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 When my brother was in his coma from his accident, I never felt "tempted" to pray but I felt the compulsion to "do something" when there was nothing I could do. A few times, I felt guilty for not feeling the need to pray for this but I just couldn't pray. It felt wrong and unnatural to me and I knew it was only for my relief. I did what I could, I thought positively about Chris's recovery and gave him all the tips and therapy I could (I'm an OT in acute rehab), and I was there for my family. That's all I could do. You're a good friend for wanting to help and no one would fault you for trying to send some good juju to your friend or plead with the universe for mercy. It couldn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRDWarrior Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 My friend is currently on the operating table, where neurosurgeons are attempting to remove a cancerous tumor from her brain. It's a 10 hour surgery. I don't know what to do. I mean, there is nothing I can do...which is why prayer seems so tempting. But I know logically it will do nothing. She might survive, she might not. Prayer won't change what happens. But my yearning to do something is driving me crazy... Any insights? 1) It won't hurt. 2) It might even help: Can Positive Thoughts Help Heal Another Person? 3) Just make sure to cover all the bases - don't limit yourself to YHWH, even if he does have major jealousy issues. I think it's high time he got over himself, personally. 4) The one undeniable possible upside to prayer (or "sending good energy" or whatever) is that it gives you something to do when there's nothing you can do. 5) The unGod of Atheism will not be angry if you pray. There's really no downside. Pretty much sums up my thoughts. I usually quell the urge by focusing my mind on actually dealing with my fears, going over possible outcomes and preparing myself, but there have been occasions when I've thrown the random prayer to the void just to make myself feel better if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I can understand the impulse to pray under such circumstances. Even though I can't really see how it can change outward circumstances, if it makes you feel better to do so, then why not? I assume you are in no danger of re-converting. When my brother was dying I sent a contribution to a Buddhist monastery in New York so they would light some candles for him and do some chanting. I knew the ultimate outcome would not change, but as you say, you really feel like you need to do something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Do something nice for the family...make cookies, offer to cut the lawn, whatever. It'll keep your mind occupied and provide tangible help instead of useless prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 I still pray. Old habits die hard. I like to think of it as meditation rather than actually speaking with my sky-daddy. Most of the time I just sit in contemplation in a quiet room, free of distractions, and just close my eyes and concentrate on what bugs me. I am at my worst when I have not had enough time through the week to do my relaxing meditation techniques. It helps me keep my head together. I employ techniques developed by Master Takayuki Kubota, 'Kubokido Meditation'. I crank it up a few decibels. I also like meditating to Buddhist mantras recordings. Anything to clear and calm the mind. When someone is ill, I like to think I am channeling healing energy, by this process, to them to help them heal. Does it work? I don't know, but I believe one person has more than enough life energy to go around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramen666 Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yes when I felt like there was nothing else I could do it does not hurt though: Here is the thread on my issue and results.... http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?showtopic=31282 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Sometimes it pays to have a long quiet talk with ourselves. What is difficult is being honest with ourselves. I hate losing an argument with myself but the outcome is honesty and a clear perception of the problem. When praying for others, we do not beg a deity for its help, at least I do not, I spend the time planning how to help the person when they come out of surgery; prayer or meditation is a means of organizing thoughts and considering the possible outcome. When the person comes out of surgery, that is when they need our help and the meditation of prayers we do before hand gives us an idea of how to proceed. I guess that what I am trying to say is that prayer and meditation is for our own use and the results are what we can do to ease the pain and suffering of the other person. Sethosayher: How did your friend come through surgery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mriana Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Two years, when my aunt's ulcers bleed so bad that she almost died, esp without several pints of blood, I didn't feel the urge to pray, but I was with her as much as I could be, even when we had a couple disagreements about religion. I visited her every other day for the whole of visiting hours and took care of her as much as the nurses allowed or could allow (which ever). I got her ice to moisten her mouth while she had all those IVs including one that was a nutritional deal going through her, because she could not have nothing by mouth until they got the bleeding completely stopped. After that, I got her water, reading materials, adjusted her pillow, you know, all those menial things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethosayher Posted June 27, 2009 Author Share Posted June 27, 2009 Thank you all for your thoughtful, insightful answers. She made it out of surgery fine, but it turns out she has to start chemotherapy next week. Hopefully it won't be too arduous for her (but by all accounts that seems like a long shot...) I don't know her very well, honestly...she's a pen-pal. But regardless I am concerned for her. Buddhist meditation sounds like it might help. Learning to develop compassion in a constructive way is my pet project for this summer =P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheYoYo Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I'm pleased to hear your friend got through the operation ok. The need to pray was what kept me clinging onto faith for a fair few months after I started to think that Christianity probably wasn't true. I just didn't know how else to deal with all the shit that happens in the world. A friend of mine is probably going to jail soon; he's only 20, he's a good student, and potentially had a great future ahead of him, so it hurts a lot that it's all been messed up. It's a complex situation, but whilst he did commit the crime, it's not exactly what he's been charged with. So he's likely to end up in prison for far longer than he deserves. So for ages, although I didn't go to church anymore, or read the Bible or anything, I kept on praying, pretty much just for this guy. I felt like there was nothing to lose by praying for him, and there was a tiny chance it might help. But I've got to add that this was while I was still very much in the midst of losing my faith. I still sort of felt like there was a God, even though I knew I had no good reason to believe that. I still wanted to believe in God, even though I couldn't bring myself to believe without evidence. Over the last few months, I've moved on a fair bit. I don't feel like I'm mourning God anymore, I don't miss being a Christian, and the further away I get, the more ludicrous Christianity seems. So last night, after I said goodbye to this guy for what could potentially be the last time (though I hope not), the thought of prayer briefly crossed my mind. I was on my own in the car, and I began to pray. But after just the first couple of words, I realised it was a sham. I don't believe in God. I don't believe prayer can achieve anything. So it just made me feel stupid, rather than comforted. Basically, I think prayer can be really helpful, emotionally, to make you feel less helpless, like you're doing something. But I think it stops working when you really have absolutely no hope anymore that there might be a God to intervene. I'm not saying it's bad to pray, but that there might come a point where it just seems futile, and doesn't comfort you anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bird28 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 When I'm stressed, I still say "Oh Lord, let me do this!" probably doesn't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 A pertinent story: While in the hospital recently, a very nice West African fellow came to draw blood (at 5 am as is typical). I am known for being extremely hard to get blood from (my poor circulation, not me personally). As he was trying to get a vein to cooperate, he muttered "help him lard, we need this blood." He got the blood and as he was preparing to leave, he noticed Erhman's "Jesus Interupted" on my nightstand and asked about it. I explained what it was about and that I was an atheist. He was taken slightly aback, then said "but you had faith!" I said, "I had faith in you". Not only did he seem to accept the answer, he positively beamed as he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I find when I'm worried over an issue I like to fold my hands in the praying fashion, though I don't get the urge to pray anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Occasionally I'll say a prayer like, "God, if you're real, please show yourself to me." I never fail to not get an answer, though, so I guess either god isn't real or he/she/it doesn't want me to know him/her/it. Now if I could only have back those countless hours I spent praying back when I was a believer.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKR Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 My friend is currently on the operating table, where neurosurgeons are attempting to remove a cancerous tumor from her brain. It's a 10 hour surgery. I don't know what to do. I mean, there is nothing I can do...which is why prayer seems so tempting. But I know logically it will do nothing. She might survive, she might not. Prayer won't change what happens. But my yearning to do something is driving me crazy... Any insights? If prayer worked, your friend wouldn't need surgery. I hope things go well. I have never been tempted to pray since I became an Atheist. After decades of prayer without a single reply, I know that either god doesn't exist or could care less about humans. Either way, it's a pointless waste of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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