dagnarus Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'd like to ask a simple question. What if the Bible were inspired by God? Does it necessarily follow that in fact makes it reliable? The Bible is professedly the word of God, and (according to the Bible) God does not and cannot lie (Num 23:19, Heb 6:18). And yet in the Bible God is shown to have sent a lying spirit into Ahab's prophets, thus actively practicing to deceive Ahab 1 Kings 22. Now if somebody told you that he never lied, and this same person also told you a story about the time when he deliberately set out to deceive somebody in order to kill him, what would your conclusion be as to whether he is actually able to lie or not. I would assert that most people would come to the conclusion that the fact that he never and that he cannot lie was in and of itself a lie. (Note if you want to argue that Ahab was evil thus it wasn't that bad to lie to him, one of the central tenets of Christian theology is that we are all vile sinners, thus if God is capable of lying to Ahab there is no reason to believe that he is not capable of lying to us). Furthermore given that God is capable of practicing deception we can come to a new perspective on some seeming contradictions in the bible. Such as if God desires that all men would be saved (1 Tim 2:4) how come in the gospels Christ spoke in parables "lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them." Mathew 13:15. If the son shall not bear the iniquity of the father (Eze 18:20) how come he visits the iniquity upon the children to the 3rd and 4th generation Exo 34:7. If God is love (1 John 4:8) how come he orders the complete annihilation of entire cities man, woman, child, sheep, and oxen (Joshua). I would put forward that assuming the bible were actually the inspired word of God the simplest explanation to these seeming contradictions is propaganda. I.E. (Eze 18:20) could be considered propaganda showing how just God is whereas Exo 34:7 is propaganda geared at scaring you shitless. Out of one end of his mouth God says how great and wonderful he is showing how wonderful he is, while out of the other end of his mouth he completely contradicts all the nice stuff he spoke about himself to keep you scared of him. Furthermore given that the god of the bible is shown to be willing to deceive in order to make himself look better we could extend this to such claims as creation, omnipotence and so on. If you were a divine being wanting a group of nomads to offer up bulls to you regularly, you very well might be willing to let them believe you created them. You also might want to lead them to believe that you were omnipotent even if you weren't capable of defeating Iron Chariots (Judges 1:19). My point is that even if we could prove that God (It should be obvious that when I say God I simply mean a "spiritual" being capable of interacting with humans) were real, and that this God inspired man to write the Bible. What reason do we have to believe that what he had written down in the bible is true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnight-mindwanderings Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You are right. At best, the Biblical god is a semi supernatural being who can somewhat effect earthly events and seems to require sacrifice and devotion to remain powerful. All the religious gods could be real in their own limited way, and I still would not worship them because even from their professed deeds they have done nothing worthy of my devotion or worship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REBOOT Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'd like to ask a simple question. What if the Bible were inspired by God? Does it necessarily follow that in fact makes it reliable? My point is that even if we could prove that God (It should be obvious that when I say God I simply mean a "spiritual" being capable of interacting with humans) were real, and that this God inspired man to write the Bible. What reason do we have to believe that what he had written down in the bible is true? They reason they usually give is that YOU'RE GOING TO HELL if you don't. There ain't no negociatin' with THY LAWRD !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 BAbble gawd is a murderous, vindictive, jealous, conniving control freak and I'd spit in his face if he ever showed his reclusive ass on this earth. Glad I'm in a good mood or I'd tell you what I really think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 IF it really was the inspired word of God (and that's a big game of "let's pretend" because even Christian biblical scholars will tell you that's not the case) it would show God to be a schizophrenic, violent, forgetful paranoid murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted July 1, 2009 Author Share Posted July 1, 2009 I'd like to ask a simple question. What if the Bible were inspired by God? Does it necessarily follow that in fact makes it reliable? My point is that even if we could prove that God (It should be obvious that when I say God I simply mean a "spiritual" being capable of interacting with humans) were real, and that this God inspired man to write the Bible. What reason do we have to believe that what he had written down in the bible is true? They reason they usually give is that YOU'RE GOING TO HELL if you don't. There ain't no negociatin' with THY LAWRD !!! If he ain't powerful enough to simply take over he probably ain't powerful enough to send you to hell. As an interesting side note while I was a believer I once wondered whether it might be possible if God only had the authority to hand out salvation/damnation to those who allowed him to through belief (thus through believing you may actually be damning yourself, this was probably inspired by disc-world). IF it really was the inspired word of God (and that's a big game of "let's pretend" because even Christian biblical scholars will tell you that's not the case) it would show God to be a schizophrenic, violent, forgetful paranoid murderer. Personally I think of him as more of a politician (with the above attributes). My main point was that if we look at the bible it seems to reveal that the author is a liar. Thus when Christians cite the bible what there actually citing a work which even if its claims of divine inspiration were to be believed it still couldn't be trusted. Christians put their trust in a God which their own divine book reveals to be a liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest October s Autumn Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 Nope. Propose that there is a god and someone creates a beautiful painting or an incredible sculpture. Could not that painting or sculpture be equally inspired by god? The idea of being inspired does not presume perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest October s Autumn Posted July 6, 2009 Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'd like to ask a simple question. What if the Bible were inspired by God? Does it necessarily follow that in fact makes it reliable? The Bible is professedly the word of God Actually, if one reads carefully they will see that whenever "word of God" is used in the bible it is never speaking of something written down. It is referring to something spoken (usually by a prophet). The bible is not the word of God by definition, because it is not spoken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 I'd like to ask a simple question. What if the Bible were inspired by God? Does it necessarily follow that in fact makes it reliable? The Bible is professedly the word of God Actually, if one reads carefully they will see that whenever "word of God" is used in the bible it is never speaking of something written down. It is referring to something spoken (usually by a prophet). The bible is not the word of God by definition, because it is not spoken. 2 Tim 3:16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dagnarus Posted July 6, 2009 Author Share Posted July 6, 2009 Nope. Propose that there is a god and someone creates a beautiful painting or an incredible sculpture. Could not that painting or sculpture be equally inspired by god? The idea of being inspired does not presume perfection. Could you elaborate more? Personally I don't see that the analogy here holds. If you are arguing that the Bible is not perfect and that when we read it we should read it as such and take from it only that which we objectively take to be good. Then I agree with you. That said I would say the same of any other text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakefoot Posted July 7, 2009 Share Posted July 7, 2009 If the babble was inspired by a gawd, then that gawd was demented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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