SilentLoner Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Friend sent me this vid a few days ago. While its nowehere the reasons I deconverted, its an interesting perspective. I wanted to ask you guys what you think of this. Why Atheism? Why are people becoming more Atheist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Kind of weird, but he seems to be saying that the traditional monotheistic view of God is dying out, while a different view -- that God is something within us -- is gaining ground. He doesn't really define that kind of God, but at least he praises atheists for being seekers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Are people becoming more atheist or are people simple allowed to come to terms and admit they are atheists? I'm thinking it might be the latter. Just like with the Age of Reason there were, for some reason, more Deists. It was an acceptable position to take in opposition to being xian. Xian simply is not reasonable for many people. Most people aren't "straight" xians. They are xian + "something" or xian with a "twist." They modify the base tradition to suit themselves. There are as many xian sects as there are xians. I've discovered that they may agree on 99.99999999999999% of whatever but that one little leftover thing is what makes them unique. That belief in something strange about the soul or the supernatural (usually a view of the "beyond"...those things the doctrines haven't quite nailed down). Whatever. It lets them personalize the entire thing to suit their tastes. And that's what they cling to the most. Jesus? Yeah, he's nifty, but I want to see my friend or relative in the afterlife. Or, I really think pets will be allowed since I love animals even though everyone says otherwise. Sure, I'll do the "worship" thing too but it's these people/things that matter. I'm sure you get the idea. But without that extra bit what's left? Nothing really. An unworkable system of unfulfilled promises. So if I toss xianity I'm left with that little extra bit. That custom part. So when I die I still might see a loved one or a pet. What about "god" or "jesus?" Who cares. I don't want/need/desire them. I don't want to worship them. I want to have a reunion and maybe talk to great historical figures or do something else. Some custom thing I thought up. My thing. "God/Jesus" was the means to that end as it turns out. So people toss them and figure that they'll insert a "god" that will allow them to get what they want or they'll get nothing. Same basic thing but without the "church" and the "bad" stuff. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddbird1963 Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 For some reason the sound didn't come through so well when I played the video. Although the radio station I had been listening too a minute before sounded just fine. Curious. Kind of weird, but he seems to be saying that the traditional monotheistic view of God is dying out, while a different view -- that God is something within us -- is gaining ground. He doesn't really define that kind of God, but at least he praises atheists for being seekers. I think people have been catching on to the idea of "God" as primarily within us for quite some time. A lot of people see the different religions as being expressions of this inward reality. Myself, I think the word 'god' or 'God' will become increasingly a useless, archaic term. Because of so many religions and so many sects within the various religions, the word god will be drained of any referential power. To whom or to what could it possibly refer? The word god is dying the death of 1000 qualifications. Might I say, it is a death of 10,000 qualifications. Myself, when and if I ever refer to God anymore, it is a metaphor for an ultimate reality that is just beyond our ability to express or comprehend. "God" is just beyond the threshold of "I'm starting to comprehend" and "I don't know." Linguistically, 'god' can only be spoken of in short, incomplete sentences; with a start and stop, pausing and resuming pace with words that don't really go together and gives the speaker the appearance of being a stoner or a person in the midst of a mini-stroke. Why? Because the brain would have to be in overdrive, attempting to explain that which the mind can hardly handle. 'God' is the idea that seems to be a shadowy presence just beyond the horizon of knowabilty and expressibility. (Maybe I'm an anti-moth: one who is drawn instinctively toward the Shadow rather than the Light. But actually, that shadow IS the spiritual and intellectual Light spoken of in theology and philosophy.) As we learn more , begin to comprehend more and develop the cognitive and linguistic skills to express this reality, 'God' will move away once more, ever being the shadow on the horizon that leaves us questioning and pursuing a more complete knowledge of ourselves, our environment and our universe. Once you think you have defined or comprehended that reality, it has just slipped beyond you into the shadows once again. That is why the pursuit of 'god,' the search for knowledge and the desire to grow and improve as a human being are tied so closely together. What does that make me? A Taoist? Maybe. A Zen Buddhist? A friend once referred to himself as a "Darwinian Spinozan" (or something like that). Sounds good too. Mostly I am a seeker - being pulled towards that horizon and ever-seeking to catch that shadowy presence. I can't help it. It just seems I end up going that way. As long as freedom of religion, freedom of expression and networks that encourage dialog and education are in place (none of these are givens) I believe people will move in that direction. Because increase in knowledge and free expression and interaction will deprive religions of their license to distribute 'God' to the masses, there will always be a an effort to clamp down on the progression to atheism. Couple that with people's 'god reflex' to turn to a more defined system of 'god' in times of fear and uncertainty, then I believe atheists and free-thinkers will have to be prepared to fight (non-violently) to see to it that their ability to dialog and distribute their ideas in an open society remains unfettered by fear-based and power-seeking religious influences. That's my two cents worth. Maybe later I'll have more to say if I can actually hear the video! OB '63 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Bah! Since I am god I say take off that silly robe and get a job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Increase of scientific understanding is one reason why many people are more likely to become atheist. As science continues to progress, the need to have a god to explain things diminishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davka Posted July 10, 2009 Share Posted July 10, 2009 Bah! Since I am god I say take off that silly robe and get a job! He has a job. I recognize his voice - this guy works in tech support, on the help desk phone lines. He usually tells you to reset your modem. idk, he comes across like all the Indian neoHindu pantheists I've heard (and I've heard a lot, even followed one for a few years). Just another scam as far as I'm concerned. If the Deep TruthTM they were teaching was such an amazing planet-unifying spirit-freeing revelation, I have a hard time believing they would limit it's dissemination to upper-middle-class pretentious yuppies. The whole gig is about speaking Deep TruthsTM to paying yuppies while walking peacefully around in a white robe and living in luxury. Nice work if you can get it. I noticed something in this vid that is common to all of these guys: he stares directly at the camera while speaking, never moving his eyes from a single spot. The result is somewhat hypnotic. Rajneesh did that, Maharishi did that, Yogananda did that. Maybe it's something they learn in guru school. Here's the most important part of his website. Check out the various offerings under "Hindu-Jain Tirths" and "Spiritual Retreats and Workshops." I'm not sure how something can be Hindu and Jain at the same time. Jain is a branch of Buddhism. Hinduism and Buddhism are at odds over many things, not least the Hindu pantheon. A "tirth" is a pilgrimage destination, like Mecca. So a Hindu-Jain Tirth is like a Jewish-Episcopalian Mecca. Whatever that means. I think it means "welcome to my retreat. Please leave your shoes, your preconceptions, and your wallet at the door." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedah Posted July 12, 2009 Share Posted July 12, 2009 Either my sound card doesn't like this or the audio quality is bad, I can barely understand 2/3rd's of what this guy is saying. Shame, because it seems possibly insightful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentLoner Posted July 12, 2009 Author Share Posted July 12, 2009 Either my sound card doesn't like this or the audio quality is bad, I can barely understand 2/3rd's of what this guy is saying. Shame, because it seems possibly insightful. In case you haven't seen it, on the side comments there's a written transcript of what he says. Here it is: Spirituality: Why are people becoming more Atheist? Why are people becoming more atheistic these days? We have more atheists today because people are tired of religion, which teaches fear. It is taught that we must fear God. But this God does not exist. The God of the Jews is vengeful, the God of Christians is compassionate, Islamic God is a warrior and Hindu God rewards and punishes. Organized religions are like a cult and people are tired of them. Whatever is being preached there is no evidence of God. Yes, there is a God, which is a kind of light that is shared by all living beings from bacteria to humans. That light is you and you exist. People are becoming atheist because they are more curious about the existence of God. The atheist might find God because he is searching. Even if they don't find God they find themselves. Atheists are real seekers and I bless them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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