oladotun Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 When you really get down to it, Christianity (as I have known it) and most of religion, comes down to this question, "are you going to AVOID hell when you die?" This leads me to the question, if hell were not a reality, would there be any basis for religion? Of course, some already believe this, universalists and the like, but what I am getting at is, doesn't all the strength that fundamentalism carry come from the fear of going to hell? Isn't this the trump card that keeps people enslaved to the demands of endless religious doctrine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qec Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 When you really get down to it, Christianity (as I have known it) and most of religion, comes down to this question, "are you going to AVOID hell when you die?" This leads me to the question, if hell were not a reality, would there be any basis for religion? Of course, some already believe this, universalists and the like, but what I am getting at is, doesn't all the strength that fundamentalism carry come from the fear of going to hell? Isn't this the trump card that keeps people enslaved to the demands of endless religious doctrine? http://www.reveal.org/library/psych/lifton.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 It just comes down to fear of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted July 14, 2009 Share Posted July 14, 2009 And also man's curiosity on how the world works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko47 Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I'm not certain that you really need that criteria for a religion, although you'll note in most religions and cults there is some kind of "liability" for not believing. I've often suggested to Christians that their religion wouldn't have even made it out of the primitive phase and into the middle ages without the "roasting in hell" card. Somehow, I doubt that even the promise of an aferlife is enough for many people. Although today, most liberal Christians just stress that part. The only true test of course, would be if there was no punishment for not believing, or showing the luv for God or the Creator concept. It's really the only litmus test that is fair. But "fair" is such a human concept. ( to quote "Q" from a Star Trek episode) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davka Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, the reincarnationist religions don't bother with hell. They manage to scare people with the prospect of living multiple lives right here on Earth. Hinduism does hold the threat of coming back as a lower caste if you're bad, but Buddhism doesn't even need that. The mere threat of endless reruns is enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurisaz Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 ...yeah I know... "Oh noez, it's him again!" Aside from one small group of verses that I consider rather questionable of origin, there's no (known to me) threat for unbelieving in Asatru. If you don't respect and honor the High Gods, you better not count on them to help you, but that's about all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deva Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Well, the reincarnationist religions don't bother with hell. They manage to scare people with the prospect of living multiple lives right here on Earth. Might depend on what reincarnationist religion you are referring to. There is a hell realm in Tibetan Buddhism with different levels. A person will not spend eternity there but it could be many thousands, even millions of years. These places are graphically described in "The Words of My Perfect Teacher" by Patrul Rinpoche. Of course, unlike Christianity it has nothing do do with believing a set of doctrines. Being reborn as a preta (hungry ghost) isn't much fun either. Actually rebirth as a human being is considered a fortunate state which is hard to come by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 I think hell is pretty ingrained in Christianity, but it's not necessary for religion to function. Ancient ritual-based religion (like the Greek Pantheon, for instance) didn't need a promise of heaven or hell. It was much more based on right ritual action, and everyone who was of the normal plebian class ended up in Hades post-mortem. Only the great heroes and emperors moved away from this trend. And OT Jewish religion (pre-Judaism) was much like this, always describing a fear of the underworld (Sheol) that everyone was assigned. After a while, incentives develop for living a religious life--the Elysian fields, Heaven--and the hells to control so-called "bad" actions, but religion itself doesn't require a threat after death. I think it can serve as a structure for understanding the world, a cosmology, as much as divine fire insurance. Christianity (and the other Abrahamic faiths, for that matter) is/are uniquely brutal in their pronouncement of the afterlife. All the more reason I rejected them, and Christianity in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sethosayher Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 And OT Jewish religion (pre-Judaism) was much like this, always describing a fear of the underworld (Sheol) that everyone was assigned. After a while, incentives develop for living a religious life--the Elysian fields, Heaven--and the hells to control so-called "bad" actions, but religion itself doesn't require a threat after death. I think it can serve as a structure for understanding the world, a cosmology, as much as divine fire insurance. Modern day Judaism also seems devoid of an underworld. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oladotun Posted July 15, 2009 Author Share Posted July 15, 2009 When you really get down to it, Christianity (as I have known it) and most of religion, comes down to this question, "are you going to AVOID hell when you die?" This leads me to the question, if hell were not a reality, would there be any basis for religion? Of course, some already believe this, universalists and the like, but what I am getting at is, doesn't all the strength that fundamentalism carry come from the fear of going to hell? Isn't this the trump card that keeps people enslaved to the demands of endless religious doctrine? This video underscores what I am talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8APpLIWTBZE&feature=player_embedded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouroboros Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Like others have said, Hell itself isn't necessarily the key component to religion, but I think religion is more complex than that. One side if it is the fear of dying and nothingness. Another side is to explain injustice or inequality. For instance, a person who lives in poverty and sickness, while seeing the rich amassing more wealth and be able to afford all the care they need, might look for some kind of explanation or "justice" beyond this world. Since they can't control what is here, they hope for some kind of mitigating reasoning for their situation. "It's God's plan" or "it's destiny" or "it's karma." It becomes a form of a retreat response, instead of drugs or alcohol, they dream. ... And there are probably other reasons as well. Of course Hell could absolutely be one of them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpheliaGinger Posted July 15, 2009 Share Posted July 15, 2009 Actually rebirth as a human being is considered a fortunate state which is hard to come by. Am I the only one who thinks being reborn as an animal other than human would be preferable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amethyst Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Christianity doesn't work without hell. It is a carrot-and-stick religion meant to control people, and hell is the stick. OTOH, religions such as Buddhism seem to do fine without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Davka Posted July 19, 2009 Share Posted July 19, 2009 Am I the only one who thinks being reborn as an animal other than human would be preferable? I'd come back as a dolphin in a heartbeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 not all religions have a hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolution_beyond Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Actually rebirth as a human being is considered a fortunate state which is hard to come by. Am I the only one who thinks being reborn as an animal other than human would be preferable? you're not the only one. I want to come back as a cat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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