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What About Ghosts


mcpng
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Easy to consider that God does not exist...

For those who believe there is no God....

 

But what do you make of witchcraft and ghosts?

 

What is the phenomenon of "speaking in tongues"? I once wikied around and found a name for this kind of thing and that it happens in all sorts of "religions".

 

What about "prophesy" and "dreams"? Are they just like deja vu which I hear has one explanation that your mind "resets" and you THINK that you had this "vision" before and now you think are are remembering it?

 

Do you think there's no "Satan"?

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But what do you make of witchcraft and ghosts?

If you're inclined to believe in the bible, then witches and ghosts are perfectly acceptable. After all, in I Samuel King Saul himself visits a witch and she calls forth the ghost of the now very dead prophet Samuel.

 

Superstition begets superstition.

 

I've yet to meet anyone who can turn me into a frog.

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It might help to read this:

How To Think About Weird Things

 

For the last several thousand years, so-called supernatural phenomena has been found to have rational explanations. History, sociology, anthropology, neuroscience, psychology, and the physical sciences will go a long way in chasing away your boogeymen.

 

Critical thinking is essential if you are to escape the trap of superstition.

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My mother has the "gift of prophesy" apparently...

 

so this confuses me...

because if it was someone else, i'd just dismiss it and say "bullshit" or "fraud"

but it's difficult to think that way about my mother. Not only is it difficult because it puts a strain on my perception of my mother, but because in all other aspects, i don't see any inclination for her to be involved in fraud or talking crap. Sure, one possibility is that she's so good a fraud. But, let's say I don't take this reasoning....how do i think of this?

 

I've got personal experiences with "ghosts" but ok, i can live with dismissing it cos it was explicit like BAM ghost says hi or something.

 

but then there are lots of people in my sister's school where she teaches, including my sister, who say they have seen a "ghost" at this certain area of her school. lies? minds playing tricks? collectively deceiving themselves without knowing it?

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Your mother may have tricked herself into believing she can prophesize. I actually see this a lot with new age people, but it's always confirmation bias. They remember when they are right and not when they are wrong, and whenever they can they see events as going along with whatever they had predicted. She may even be good at reading people's personalities and predicting what they do, but that is psychiatry, not prophecy.

 

Thing is, we humans can't trust our brains or our senses. This is why scientists ask other scientists to repeat experiments over and over again. The brain can produce things that aren't there. Study schizophrenia for example...these people's brains are so scrambled they constantly hallucinate. Watch the movie 'A beautiful mind' or 'fight club' to get a sense of this. I minored in psychology and it was amazing what the malfunctions of the brain can do.

 

As you said, they are collectively deceiving themselves without knowing it. When we say bullshit we don't mean to say these are bad people, but that they lack the concepts of critical thinking. Scientific processes are set up to remove these personal biases so that we can come to a better understanding of reality.

 

I have a friend who is red/green colorblind. He sees them as the same color. But we can demonstrate to him that they are separate colors by using scientific methods (they reflect different wavelengths). He can not trust his senses, but he can trust science because it goes beyond the personal senses when collecting data.

 

Here be Dragons is a movie about critical thinking that might help.

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I would love to have some evidence for the existence of the supernatural. I really would, but so far, no luck.

 

If you have any proof to offer for your claims, I'd appreciate it - seriously.

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Think critically about your mothers "prophesies".

Are they mostly about people she's already intimate with and already knows many details about? Many people have very accute "insights" into what others might do when they know them well enough.

Are they ambiguous, where anyone can then read into them whatever they like?

 

There are plenty of websites that are actively looking for "prophets" who can fortell major natural disasters BEFORE they happen. ;)

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What about "prophesy" and "dreams"? Are they just like deja vu which I hear has one explanation that your mind "resets" and you THINK that you had this "vision" before and now you think are are remembering it?

 

 

 

I had a situation once, before I became religious. I was a manager, and one of the employees at my store told me that I was going to do something, out of my character; and that I wouldn't get fired, but it would end my job. She had taken me down to the restaurant beside us and said all this to me.

 

The crazy part is that as she was telling me this, I was planning that same day to do something I would never have done, but I denied it. I carried on with it, and ended up creating a problem at work about 3 months later with my supervisor having to intervene.

 

Long story short here, everything fell apart until I kind of had a nervous breakdown. The nervous breakdown was for two reasons. One, my job along with it's glory was fading away. Two, it really bothered me that what this woman said to me seemed to be coming around, which freaked me out.

 

I ended up having to resign involuntary, to save employment. About a year later is when I became religious.

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But what do you make of witchcraft and ghosts?

Of course ghosts exist. I see one in the mirror each morning before coffee.

 

What is the phenomenon of "speaking in tongues"? I once wikied around and found a name for this kind of thing and that it happens in all sorts of "religions".

Glossolalia, and I can still do it, "chamaca boca doca myxomatosis dihydrochloric chackaback ramalamadingdong." No, seriously, I really can speak in tongues still. Good enough to fool other "holy spirit filled" people.

 

What about "prophesy" and "dreams"? Are they just like deja vu which I hear has one explanation that your mind "resets" and you THINK that you had this "vision" before and now you think are are remembering it?

It's more than that. The mind can process very advanced patterns, and some just got better skills at it. So they see "visions" of pattern in society and how the tide will come and go.

 

I have prophecies sometimes, which come true, but I won't talk about them. But mostly it's because I can get somewhat paranoid and build up a scare-scenario and when 1 of 100 comes true--See, I was right.

 

My mom was the same way. If she had not been a Christian, she would've been a witch... but don't tell her that.

 

Do you think there's no "Satan"?

Only as a symbol for independent thought and true free will.

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What about sex with ghosts?

 

Some people think of ghosts as other dimensional beings.

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What about sex with ghosts?

 

Some people think of ghosts as other dimensional beings.

I used to have sex with Jesus, pretending to be a bride of christ while I masterbated. That count?

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What about sex with ghosts?

 

Some people think of ghosts as other dimensional beings.

It's a lot like masturbating. In fact, it is exactly like masturbating.

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But what do you make of witchcraft and ghosts?

What should I make of them?

 

What is the phenomenon of "speaking in tongues"? I once wikied around and found a name for this kind of thing and that it happens in all sorts of "religions".

So? Is this supposed to mean something?

 

What about "prophesy" and "dreams"? Are they just like deja vu which I hear has one explanation that your mind "resets" and you THINK that you had this "vision" before and now you think are are remembering it?

No one is quite sure what dreams are for but there are a number of theories. None of those theories, to my knowledge, have to do with fortune telling. Is there any legitimate reason to suspect otherwise?

 

Do you think there's no "Satan"?

In the sense of a "supernatural" being? I know there is no "Satan." But if this imaginary "Satan" wishes to prove me wrong it should know where to find me and is more than welcome to drop by. I'm not worried.

 

mwc

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I love the idea of ghosts...I always have. I watch Ghost Hunters every Wednesday night! :D

 

If there is ghosts, I would have to say that it is something natural that we aren't aware of.

 

I once had a weird thing happen to me at work (not about ghosts). A co-worker and myself were tossing paper wads at each other (yes, we worked hard! :) ) and we then turned around to continue with our work. My back was to this guy and thinking he would get me when I wasn't looking, he threw one at the back of my head. I reached up with my left hand by my ear and caught it. I never saw it, heard it, or saw him even think about throwing it. I was as shocked as he was! Just a weird thing...

 

Another thing that I find fascinating is with those conjoined twins, Brittany and Abigale. They can only feel their respective sides, but one will often scratch another's itch and they will bring their hands together at the same time. I don't know, there must be some kind of connection that people have that we're not aware of...yet. :shrug:

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I love the idea of ghosts...I always have. I watch Ghost Hunters every Wednesday night! :D

 

If there is ghosts, I would have to say that it is something natural that we aren't aware of.

I liked the movie Ghost. I also like a lot of other movies with a supernatural element. I still think it's bunk, but it's entertaining bunk.

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I wouldn't feel too goth if I didn't appreciate the supernatural.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

For the last several thousand years, so-called supernatural phenomena has been found to have rational explanations.

 

History, sociology, anthropology, neuroscience, psychology, and the physical sciences will go a long way in chasing away your boogeymen.

 

Critical thinking is essential if you are to escape the trap of superstition.

 

:3:

 

Infrasound + Spookiness = Apparition...A 19Hz frequency(vibration) can cause some people to believe they are having a supernatural encounter, i.e., ghost(s).

 

 

"Before working at Coventry University in Coventry, UK, I designed anesthetic machines in a lab that was two garages end to end. The lab was long and thin, rather like a railway carriage. There was no hint of the strange events that would unfold.

 

As I arrived one morning, I reached for the door handle and came face to face with the cleaning lady who was in a state of distress. She told me she had just been crept up on by something, which she took to be a ghost.

 

Aided by a healthy dose of skepticism, I decided to take a look. The thing was described as gray, very tall and less than attractive. But when I entered the lab, there was nothing to be seen.

 

I checked to confirm there were no leaking anesthetic gases. We were extremely careful with the anaesthetic agents. Everything checked out. The cleaning lady returned, and we did what anyone would expect of the British in a crisis…had a cup of tea.

 

Over the following weeks, we experienced weird events. For example, my boss would talk to me as if I was standing next to him, when I was on the other end of the room. In addition, we were unusually depressed and suffered headaches. The room could be oppressively hot in the summer, but this was different and unpleasant.

 

Sitting at the desk when I was working late one night, I had an intense feeling that someone was watching me. There were windows at each end of the lab, so it was possible, although unlikely. I investigated but there was no one around. Back at the desk, the feelings got stronger, I began to notice something moving by my shoulder. Immediately the hackles stood up on the back of my neck and a cold chill ran through me.

 

There was clearly something else in the room. The door was in front of me, so no one could have entered without my knowing. Whatever it was came from behind me and glided silently to my side. I was partly aware that my attempts to give this gray mass form were influencing what I saw, but I was absolutely terrified of what was happening.

 

Time Seemed to Slow

 

I considered a range of options, mainly centered on escape. In the end, with the gray mass established between the door and myself, I decided to confront it. When I turned to look at the apparition, it retreated and faded away. With skepticism still marginally intact, I decided I was working too hard and went home.

 

The following day, I discovered what I believe to have been the cause of the apparition. I was entering a fencing competition and had come in early to fit my favorite handle to a foil blade. When I put the blade into the vise, the free end began to move on its own. As I wondered what might happen next, it dawned on me that this vibration required energy and something a little less supernatural might be involved.

 

I transferred the foil blade to a drill vise and slid it along the floor. The amplitude of the blade movement peaked next to the desk, which was half way down the room. From the measurements, I formed the hypothesis that a low frequency (LF) standing wave of about 19Hz with significant amplitude was the cause of this supernatural encounter.

 

Finding the source was easy. I asked the maintenance staff if any work had been done near our lab; indeed a fan had been installed the previous weekend.

 

Turning the fan off stopped the blade moving, but also lifted the oppressive feeling from the room and effectively exorcised the ghost, which was not reported again.

My interest in the effects of LF sound ignited. I dug out a work by W. Tempest from 1976, titled Infrasound and Low Frequency Vibration (Academic Press, London), which contained a couple of interesting case studies.

 

Noise consultants were asked to examine one of a group of bays in a factory where workers reported feeling uneasy. The bay had an oppressive feel not present in the adjacent areas, although the noise level appeared the same.

 

Management workers and consultants were all aware of the unusual atmosphere, and on investigation it was found that LF sound was present at a slightly higher level than in other bays. However, the actual frequency of the offending noise was not obvious. The cause of the noise was a fan in the air conditioning system.

 

Workers in a university radiochemistry building experienced the same oppressive feeling together with dizziness when the fan in a fume cupboard was switched on. Conventional soundproofing had reduced the audible sound to the point where there was hardly any difference in the noise with the fan on as off.

 

The situation affected some people so much that they refused to work in the lab. It was concluded that the LF component of the sound was responsible.” (p.81-82)

 

Source

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That's a nice story, V..., but it won't make a dent in a True Believer™!

 

Anyway, welcome to the forums. Hope you like it here and continue making such relevant posts. Good job.

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That's a nice story, V..., but it won't make a dent in a True Believer™!

 

Anyway, welcome to the forums. Hope you like it here and continue making such relevant posts. Good job.

 

Hey Florduh...I really appreciate the welcome and kudos. =)

 

I'll admit that I've not done any back reading on this forum, so perhaps what I'm posting is old news. However...I'll give it another shot, lol.

 

As many are aware, our brains are quite capable of manufacturing ‘experiences’ that have no basis in consensus reality. Our brain contains magnetite, a major ore of iron and a common accessory mineral in igneous and metamorphic rocks. It can be biogenically produced by a wide variety of organisms. Source

 

On average, the brain has about five million (very small) magnetite crystals per gram, and it averages about 1400 grams. The parts of the brain that are the most sensitive to geomagnetic signals are the parts with the lowest electrical thresholds, i.e. the temporal lobes.

 

The brain uses magnetic signals. The earth produces geomagnetic signals. When the two are in phase, (matched frequencies), the earth's energy field enables hallucinations of whatever function that signal would ordinarily be matched with. Hallucinations are not just visual. You can hallucinate sounds, tastes, smells, touches, ‘senses of shape', memories, and even emotions. Source

 

The study below is related to a well known haunted castle in the UK. They measured electromagnetic and geomagnetic fields during the time when these apparitions would normally appear.

 

When these fields came in contact with the headboard and other objects around the bed...the frequencies measured around the pillow area had been distorted to the 7-8 HZ range (Theta). If anyone is in this area for any period of time, they don't even need to be asleep for this to occur. It is known as a 'frequency following response'.

 

Magnetic Variances Associated with Haunt-type’ Experiences:

 

A Comparison Using Time-Synchronized Baseline Measurements

 

Behavioral Brain Sciences Center, School of Psychology

University of Birmingham

 

Abstract

Recent laboratory studies have revealed that human exposure to low-frequency complex electromagnetic fields (EMFs) can induce strange and exceptional hallucinatory experiences under controlled conditions.

 

A number of field-studies have also shown that reputedly haunted locations can be magnetically distinguished from non-haunted areas in the natural setting.

 

The results show separate effects of both elevated levels in the ambient spatial magnetic field, and the nature of how magnetic fields vary over time (i.e., their complexity)in areas of interest.

 

The implications of the current findings for the magnetically remarkable nature of reputedly haunted buildings

are discussed.

 

Introduction

 

Recent evidence suggests an association between the presence of variable geomagnetic fields (GMFs) and/or power-frequency electromagnetic fields (EMFs) with changes in neurophysiological activity and behaviour.

 

The implication from this is that many strange (i.e., haunt-type) experiences reported at such locations could actually represent a spontaneously occurring magnetically induced hallucination.

 

Individuals who report haunt-type experiences may well have been exposed to crucial EIFs present at that location, and at that time.

 

Full Study

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It's a strange predicament, because I have seen phenomenon that would constitute the criteria of a possible "ghost" or unexplainable "apparition". I do chalk it up to the possibility of

 

1. mental fatigue

 

2. alcohol

 

3. my fanciful imagination at times

 

4. Hey, I'm a hobbyist rock guitarist. We can claim anything we want. Cuz...

 

5. Bong

 

8. Even more bong

 

7. Extended video game playing.

 

 

Whatever the case, as a soft-core atheist I take these things in stride. Everyone experiences the occasional hallucination during their lives.

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snip...

 

Thanks V, and welcome!

 

As a sound engineer, I have been aware of LF sound being a possible cause of "haunting", but I never read anything so detailed as to what you posted. If you search the forums, a few years ago we did have a thread or two about capturing EVP's (electronic voice phenomenon), and the official EVP website is truly a joke as to how to capture them. They suggest you use the lowest quality settings on consumer recorders, even to then put these devices in shoeboxes to get the "best" results! IOW, make sure you add lots of noise to the signal to confuse your brain into finding patterns that are not really there.

 

Thanks for the links, they will be bookmarked for future reference!

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  • 2 months later...

Check out this televangelist being debunked:

 

The guy who debunked him is called Randi James. He has offered a 1 million dollar prize for anyone proving that they are psychic... bizarely no-one has ever claimed the money!

http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge.html

James Randi. Professional magician turned skeptic. Prominent in skeptical circles.

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