I Have Been Told Hell Is Real And It Scares Me.

[dB-Paradox]

It doesn't work for me, but hopefully it will for everyone else...

[chefranden]

But my Sister has told me a few times that she has visited Hell.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you are afraid.

 

Tell your sister to bring back a pitch fork as proof next time she goes.

 

Edit, Your sister may not be insane, usually. However, she could be having episodes of brain dysfunction. Did she ever use LSD in her youth? The brain can do some weird shit on occasion: The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat

[Shyone]

 

I guess I was beat to it....here's my version (hope this works):

That was horrible! Horrible, I tell ya!

[Shyone]

The brain can do some weird shit on occasion: The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat

This book is one of the reasons I'm an atheist. It's a mind blower. I realized after reading this that the brain is the mind and the mind is the soul. It's anatomic.

 

[God, being immaterial and invisible is, by definition, brainless however.]

[Karhoof]

[God, being immaterial and invisible is, by definition, brainless however.]

Well, that would explain why he never uses his left arm or hand for anything.

 

 

Huh... I thought it was a stroke.

[OpheliaGinger]

The sounds from hell is my white noise.

[qec]

Cutie, I want you to consider this. According to Christianity, God is all powerful. He can do anything. He could turn the sun into a giant peanut butter and jelly sandwich that still created nuclear fusion generated flame to give light and warmth to the earth. Supposedly, he created the entire universe with it's billions upon billions of stars and galaxies. If he's that powerful, he must then be able to forgive people when they screw up. He wouldn't send them to hell no matter what awful thing they did.

 

I don't quite know what's running the universe,but an all powerful god isn't going to be so cheap and petty that he'd eternally torment people for not worshipping him or doing bad things.

 

Bloody hell, you know what? I never even thought about that.

 

It's true, just think about it; why would a loving God condemn ANYONE who committed a series of finite crimes, to an infinite eternal punishment???

 

Just stop, and think about that. It really doesn't make sense, I mean if anything, even a guy like Hitler or Stalin would still get proportional justice meeted out to them. Sure it would be severe, but it would be proportional, that is if we are talking about a Moral Entity that is not petty and cruel. Locking someone up for life disproportionally (the rest of existence in the Natural World), is more the province of petty dictators like Saddam Hussein, just think about it... There are many examples in history of human beings taking up positions of power and meeting out punishment that did not fit the crime; dictators like Stalin throwing people into Gulags for life (most of them Christians). Why would a loving God stoop to the same level? Much less an "All loving God" that is supposed to transcend humanity. The answer, in my humble opinion, ties into the reason that Christianity and Islam are the world's two largest religions; they both have the biggest "Stick". Heaven is the Carrot and Hell is the Stick, the bigger the Stick, the greater the Fear. An Infinite Stick creates much more Fear than it could otherwise. Now, who would this be useful to? This would be useful to the Elite (aristocracy), who would have had a political stake in things, this would have been useful to Rulers (Monarchs) when it came to keeping the peace (social order), this would have been useful to the Clergy as a way to keep the "flock" in line politically...... Hmmm... I wonder what the historical reasons are behind the phrase that Christians often give "I wouldn't have any morals if there was no punishment in the afterlife"... If people don't have morals then social order breaks down, however, it does more than just break down; it also inevitably morphs into something that the "Keepers" of that social order (Elite, Monarchy, Church) would not approve of; with a new moral structure to it. Now, what better way to control people than to cruelly suggest, from the time they are very young, that they will rot in hell for all eternity if they do not do as "God" tells them, and then to make sure the Clergy keep re-enforcing this suggestion (mostly unwittingly) to everyone (including the parents)? It happens sub-consciously far more than it happens consciously. In fact, the threat of Hell itself will keep the mechanics of what's REALLY going on lodged in peoples' sub conscious; you don't want to go to Hell for not believing anymore do you? See what I mean?

 

You ever hear the phrase "Follow the Money"? The same general principle applies here, except it's not regarding money. It's more like, "Follow the Distribution and Flow of Power". The game of Divide and Conquer, starts for most humans as soon as they pop out of their mothers' wombs; divide the mind into two segments, one is "God" and the other is "Me". Then confuse the human being into believing that when he/she "hears from God" they are really hearing from something outside of themselves... How convenient is it that Religion ties straight into Politics. Can you imagine a scenario were that would NOT be the case? Even Holy Monks in monasteries in today's age, supposedly get "Revelations" from "God" which are then passed onto the populace at large and have political impacts...

 

Why are these things so? You see, your Rational mind is divided against itself, and ironically, as Jesus said: A Kingdom divided against itself cannot stand. Think about it, and then try something: when you "Hear from God" try to mess with the thoughts. Examine the thoughts and see if they are "predictable" and sound like stuff you heard at Church or stuff you read in the Bible or even if they are just similar to convictions or conclusions you came to earlier in the week/day after sincere prayer. If so, then what is that talking to you? What is that really? Because, you see, your mind is divided against itself...It is not whole. And you know who it benefits as an adult woman? That's right: Politicians and Clergymen wanting more power over you and those like you.

 

If my reasoning doesn't check out, it's not the end of the world. However, I myself have thought of these things and asked these questions. They are hard questions and what I have posted here are answers I came up with. The idea is to get you to think hard and long and not merely see if what I said makes sense and checks out, but to stimulate your own thoughts.

[DirtbagDan]

In response to the posts about the story of Siberian Oil Drillers digging to hell and finding audio from it, I remember that story surfacing 10 years ago or so and it's still circulating. Look at this, from snopes.com:

 

Investigating The

'Drilling To Hell' Story

By Rich Buhler

Truth Or Fiction.com

10-7-4

 

I first heard about this story from people who started calling my radio program to ask about it in the early 1990s. There was such a flurry of calls that I finally promised the listeners I'd look into it. Most of the callers said they'd heard the story on Trinity Broadcasting Network, a Christian television network that originates from Southern California.

 

I called Trinity Broadcasting headquarters and asked about the story. I was transferred to a woman who said, 'Oh yes, it's true all right. We've got documentation. It's in our latest newsletter.'

 

I was on the network's mailing list, so I looked through a pile of recent mail and found the article. The newsletter said the details had come from the translation of an article in a Finnish newspaper named 'Ammennusatia'. It claimed:

 

A geological group who drilled a hole about 14.4 kilometers deep in the crust of the earth are saying that they heard human screams. Screams have been heard from the condemned souls from earth's deepest hole. Terrified scientists are afraid they have let loose the evil powers of hell up to the earth's surface.

 

'The information we are gathering is so surprising, that we are sincerely afraid of what we might find down there,' stated Dr Azzacov, the manager of the project in remote Siberia.

 

According to the story, the geologists were dumbfounded. After they had drilled several kilometers through the earth's crust, the drill bit suddenly began to rotate wildly. 'There is only one explanation,' said Dr Azzacov. 'The deep center of the earth is hollow!' The report continued:

 

The second surprise was the high temperature they discovered in the earth's center. 'The calculations indicate the given temperature was about 1,100 degrees Celsius, or over 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit,' Azzacov pointed out. 'This is far more then we expected. It seems almost like an inferno of fire is brutally going on in the center of the earth.'

 

'The last discovery was nevertheless the most shocking to our ears, so much so that the scientists are afraid to continue the project. We tried to listen to the earth's movements at certain intervals with supersensitive microphones, which were let down through the hole. What we heard turned those logically thinking scientists into a trembling ruins. It was a sometimes a weak, but high pitched sound which we thought to be coming from our own equipment,' explained Dr Azzacov.

 

'But after some adjustments we comprehended that indeed the sound came from the earth's interior. We could hardly believe our own ears. We heard a human voice, screaming in pain. Even though one voice was discernible, we could hear thousands, perhaps millions, in the background, of suffering souls screaming. After this ghastly discovery, about half of the scientists quit because of fear. Hopefully, that which is down there will stay there,' Dr Azzacov added.

 

According to the Trinity Broadcasting Network newsletter, the Finnish article had been given to them by a Texas evangelist, R.W. Schambach, who was a frequent guest on their network.

 

We checked with Schambach's office and were assured that the story was 'absolutely true' and had been substantiated. They said they had an article from a 'respected scientific journal' in Finland, as well as a letter from a Norwegian man, Age Rendalen, who had confirmed it. Rendalen had sent his letter directly to Trinity Broadcasting Network and the details he revealed added a new dimension to the story.

 

Rendalen told the network that he had visited United States a few weeks earlier and happened upon their telecast about the Drilling to Hell story. He wrote:

 

I must confess that I laughed when I heard your account... I did not believe one word of it, and commented to my friend that Americans sure were gullible to believe that hell could be physically located to a hole in the ground. I cannot even begin to tell you what a shock it was to me when I returned to Norway and found the newspapers full of reports about this incident. I knew immediately that if there was a hell, I for sure would end up in it. A tremendous fear took hold of me, and for two nights I dreamed about fire and screams until I surrendered to God and committed my life to his hands for safe-keeping.

 

In the letter, Rendalen went on to encourage the network not to let 'skeptics' interfere with their telling of the story. He included a copy and translation of what he claimed was an article from Norway's largest and most reputable newspaper, with more information about the drilling. Rendalen's translation of the article told of opposition to the drilling by Russian atheists, as well as government intimidation to keep the scientists from telling the rest of the world about their discovery. The account, which drew on the eyewitness testimony of a Mr Nummedal, also added a new detail:

 

What really unnerved the Soviets, apart from the voice recordings, was the appearance that same night of a fountainhead of luminous gas shooting up from the drill site, and out of the midst of this incandescent cloud pillar a brilliant being with bat wings revealed itself with the words (in Russian): 'I have conquered,' emblazoned against the dark Siberian sky.

 

'The incident was absolutely unreal; the Soviets cried out in terror,' says Mr Nummedal. Later that night, he saw ambulance crews circulating in the community. A driver he knew told him that they had been told to sedate everybody with a medication known to erase short term memory. The Soviets use this drug in the treatment of shock victims.

 

So we now had not only a story about drilling into hell, but an additional version with a bat-like creature making an appearance.

 

My staff and I decided to roll up our shirt sleeves and trace the story as far as we could, especially since we had the names of newspapers and at least one individual who might know the facts.

 

The Finnish newspaper 'Ammennusastia,' which is quoted in nearly every account of the story, is located in an area called Levasjoki. We had a phone conversation with a staff member who told us the publication is not a 'respected newspaper' or a 'scientific journal', as we had been told, but a monthly publication of a group of Finnish Christians. The Drilling to Hell story, he said, had been based on the word of mouth recollection of another staff member, who had remembered reading it as a 'major article' in a Finnish daily newspaper called 'Etela Soumen'.

 

We contacted this newspaper and at first they couldn't recall or find the story. However, we later received a call saying they had discovered that the tale had appeared in their paper. It was not in an article, however, but in a feature section that included letters from readers who could write about almost anything they wished.

 

Through the newspaper, we tracked down the person who wrote the letter with the Drilling to Hell story. He was a kind, elderly man who, in spite of being reluctant to talk with us initially, told us through an interpreter that he couldn't vouch for the credibility of the story. He got it, he said, from a Christian newsletter called 'Vaeltajat', which was published by a group of Finnish missionaries.

 

We next contacted 'Vaeltajat'. The editor said the story had been printed in their July 1989 issue. Where did he hear about it? He had received it from one of their readers, who claimed it had appeared in a newsletter called 'Jewels of Jericho', published by a group of Jewish Christians in California. And that is where the Finnish trail came to an end.

 

One thing was clear at this point: The Drilling to Hell story was looking and smelling like a pretty typical urban legend. It was sensational, impossible to document, and only had life because of all the small publications that were quoting one another's unsubstantiated stories.

 

However, there was still the Norwegian man, Age Rendalen, who had told the story of the ominous, bat-like creature emerging from the drill-hole. The article in the Trinity Broadcasting Network newsletter said he lived near Oslo, so we called directory assistance and found him in about 45 seconds. I talked with him on the phone myself:

 

'Are you the one who sent information to a Christian television network in the United States about scientists drilling into hell?' I asked.

 

'Yes,' he said without hesitation.

 

'Well,' I continued, 'Do you have any way of knowing whether it is true?'

 

'Yes I do,' he replied.

 

'Tell me about it,' I asked.

 

'None of it is true,' he said. 'I fabricated every word of it!'

 

Rendalen went on to explain that he had visited the US a few weeks earlier and had seen the host of a Christian television program enthusiastically relating the Drilling to Hell story. He told me: 'I couldn't believe that the hosts really thought the story was true and that they would broadcast it without apparently having checked it out.'

 

When he returned to Norway, Rendalen sat down and fabricated the graphic story of the bat-like creature and sent his letter to the television network. His prediction was that they would use the story without investigating it. To make an investigation easy for them, he included his name, address and telephone number on his letter. He also included what he claimed was an article on the story from 'Norway's largest and most reputable newspaper'. In fact, the article, which he falsely translated, was a piece in his local community paper about a building inspector.

 

Rendalen also included the name and telephone number of a pastor friend based in Southern California. This pastor knew about the hoax and was prepared to reveal the truth if someone called to research it further with him.

 

However, as predicted, Trinity Broadcasting Network ran the story without contacting Renalden or the Californian pastor, and it appeared on television, radio and in a large number of publications. None of those who used the story attempted to research it before going public.

 

'2000 PEOPLE HAVE FOUND CHRIST!'

 

On 6th February 1990, a listener of mine sent me a letter. She had videotaped and documented all three occasions when this story was discussed on the Christian TV show put out by the network. On 29th January 1990, the show host is documented as saying:

 

Let me just say, all of you that have written me all those nasty letters about the 'hole in hell', let me tell you I finally got the newspaper article which is from 'The World Weekly'. This is an international newspaper that has been translated into English from Finnish. 'Scientists fear they've opened gates of hell! Geologists drilling nine-mile hole hear human shrieks.'

 

I got a letter today from a geologist in Oklahoma and he's really giving me a rough time. He says that there isn't anything that could drill that deep. Folks, I'm just reporting what people have been sending to me and I don't know if this is true or not. I know one thing, if this is a trick of the Devil, he sure has blown it, because I know of about 2,000 people that have found Christ because of it!

 

True or false, I'll tell you what I'm doing, though. We're now going to do some investigative reporting of our own and we're going to check with the Finnish government and the Department of the Interior and we're really going to follow this up and see if they really did drill a hole nine miles down there, if they really did have a microphone down there, if they really did hear human shrieks of agony and pain as this newspaper article and as did many letters I have received from over there have indicated to us. If I'm wrong and they're right, I've got nothing to lose. But if I'm right and you're wrong, you've got everything to lose.

 

Unfortunately, the investigation by the show took place too late to prevent the damage of a widely spread rumor in the Christian community.

 

Rendalen has now issued an official statement about his actions and the whole incident, which says: 'The story is nothing more than a Christian "urban legend" without basis in reality.'

 

There are a couple of postscripts to this incident. One is that the respected magazine, 'Biblical Archaeology Review', printed a story about the Drilling to Hell story, thinking it was so outrageous that readers would get a kick out of it. Many of the readers took the article seriously, however, and either started passing it around as substantiation of the story, or wrote to the magazine to complain that it shouldn't have given it respectability.

 

Secondly, in August of 1990, I was contacted by the pastor of a small church in Flagstaff, Arizona, who informed me that he had proof that this story was true. Apparently, a man from his church, who was believed to be a PhD in Physics from MIT, came forward in private to claim that he was a scientist who had been on a secret mission in Russia for the past year and had met with Mikhail Gorbachev several times. He verified that the Drilling to Hell story was indeed true. He claimed:

 

A hole was drilled deep into the crust of the earth in Siberia and a large cavity was found.

 

Unfortunately, news of this was leaked to the press and was distorted. It is true that a recording was made of the sounds from deep in the hole, but the intense heat destroyed the microphone in spite of special cooling material around it, so that only seventeen seconds of sounds could be captured. At the present time, scientists are drilling a second hole to confirm what was found the first time. And a better system is being developed for cooling the microphone.

 

The scientist went on to claim that he was helping to design this microphone and was returning to Siberia shortly to further document the phenomenon. He planned to return in about a year with more confirming information on this amazing phenomenon.

 

Six months later, I got a letter from another member of the church saying that this man had turned out to be neither a graduate of MIT nor a scientist. In fact, he had skipped town with over $20,000 collected from church members who wanted to help finance his expedition.

 

How did this story originate? Again, we will never really know. It is possible that somewhere in the world there has been a spooky experience during deep drilling operations. I don't know. According to an August 1989 article in 'Science' magazine, there is a Russian deep hole drilling project in Kola, near Murmansk, about 150 miles north of the Arctic Circle. Another German deep drilling experiment in north-east Bavaria has discovered warmer temperatures than were expected at certain drilling levels, although nothing even close to 2,000 degrees Fahrenheit.

 

Characteristic of many urban legends, this story was alleged to have occurred in an obscure part of the world where it would be virtually impossible to track down the facts. And once the story got started, people began quoting one another's newsletters to validate their own. This is the stuff of which tabloid newspapers are made.

 

 

Source: http://www.rense.com/general58/investigatingthedrilling.htm

 

And, of course, when debunking stupidity like this, nobody can forget that awesome website Snopes.com:

 

http://www.snopes.com/religion/wellhell.asp

 

Anybody who fell for that stupid hoax needs psychological help. My father fell for it (and still believes it).

[Dagan]

Meh, Doctor Who got the devil sucked into a black hole. Doctor 1, Hell 0. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Kyle]

I started reading this thread and immediately wanted it put to death. But I've laughed through the whole thing. I say we keep it going for sheer entertainment.

[ShallowByThyGame]

I never gave that a thought you know, it is just that when she told me, she sound so serious about it.

 

Take it as a good lesson that people are easily misled, and will fervently defend the most ridiculous claims. Science has discovered, and proven, lots of facts about our world. They know things are true because they can repeat their experiments. We know lightning bolts are not an angry Zeus, but people once defended that fact as surely as your sister defends Hell now.

 

Noone can know what happens to the mind after death, by definition. But when you consider Hell to be an imaginary place used to scare people, how does that make you feel? Do you see how such a concept could help a leader control his subjects? It's almost too easy, because noone can prove you wrong, because once you're dead you're not coming back with evidence either way.

 

The fact that Hell can be used to control people should indicate to you that it was created for precisely that purpose, not by a Supernatural God, but by a crafty ruler who wanted political power.

[cutie]

But my Sister has told me a few times that she has visited Hell.

 

I'm sorry to hear that you are afraid.

 

Tell your sister to bring back a pitch fork as proof next time she goes.

 

Edit, Your sister may not be insane, usually. However, she could be having episodes of brain dysfunction. Did she ever use LSD in her youth? The brain can do some weird shit on occasion: The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat

 

My Sister is 16, does not touch drugs.

[HRDWarrior]

My Sister is 16, does not touch drugs.

 

 

And you're 30???? And look up to her this much????

[Franko47]

Really....I wouldn't go by anything, any experience, any vision, coming from a 16 year old.

 

 

This is really getting absurd.

[florduh]

When my little brother was three he convinced me there were trolls under the bridge.

 

I still worry it might be true.

[Loren]

This is really getting absurd.

 

Truly.

 

Cutie, what, exactly, are you asking for in this thread? Do you want a cogent philosophical refutation of the Hell doctrines? Do you want us to tell you it's just not true and to not worry about it? Do you want us to tell you that your sister's perfectly fine, but that it's okay for you to absolutely not listen to her? Do you want the theology of it? Do you want us to tell you that God told us that Hell isn't real? Do you want us to give you a magic pill that allows you to deal with it without actually dealing with it?

 

What exactly are you asking for?

 

If you really have some kind of need that we can provide for, we'd be happy to do so. But we need to know what that need is. So far, a number of members have put in the time and care to give you some lengthy and thoughtful answers, yet you come back with nothing but short one-line posts which give us absolutely no indication of whether any of our replies are even anywhere remotely close to the mark of what you want. I'm still not convinced that you're not a troll. I'm darn close to moving this thread elsewhere, perhaps to Rants, maybe even to Humor and Satire.

 

Loren

[FiddlingAround]

I don't think she's a troll. I think she's a kid who's told us she's 30 because kids aren't supposed to admit to being kids on the big bad web. It makes sense for her to be looking up to her 16 year old sister if she's younger than 16 herself, and her posts make more sense if I assume they're coming from somebody very, very young.

 

Cutie, if I'm wrong, I'm so sorry. But that really seems to be what's going on here.

[Loren]

I don't think she's a troll. I think she's a kid who's told us she's 30 because kids aren't supposed to admit to being kids on the big bad web. It makes sense for her to be looking up to her 16 year old sister if she's younger than 16 herself, and her posts make more sense if I assume they're coming from somebody very, very young.

 

Cutie, if I'm wrong, I'm so sorry. But that really seems to be what's going on here.

And that would be fine. I'm not being sarcastic, cutie. The last thing I want to do is treat somebody as if they're a troll when they actually need help. We'd still be happy to be helpful if we can, even if you're younger than you originally told us. But we do need to get some kind of feedback from you, so we know how to proceed with you.

 

Have any of our posts helped you? If so, can you tell us which ones?

[cutie]

Really....I wouldn't go by anything, any experience, any vision, coming from a 16 year old.

 

 

This is really getting absurd.

 

I told my Mum,she said it has been going on since last year, does not seem worried though.

[cutie]

I don't think she's a troll. I think she's a kid who's told us she's 30 because kids aren't supposed to admit to being kids on the big bad web. It makes sense for her to be looking up to her 16 year old sister if she's younger than 16 herself, and her posts make more sense if I assume they're coming from somebody very, very young.

 

Cutie, if I'm wrong, I'm so sorry. But that really seems to be what's going on here.

And that would be fine. I'm not being sarcastic, cutie. The last thing I want to do is treat somebody as if they're a troll when they actually need help. We'd still be happy to be helpful if we can, even if you're younger than you originally told us. But we do need to get some kind of feedback from you, so we know how to proceed with you.

 

 

I have told my Mum, she said that this has been going on since last year, does not seem worried though.

 

Have any of our posts helped you? If so, can you tell us which ones?

[cutie]

This is really getting absurd.

 

Truly.

 

Cutie, what, exactly, are you asking for in this thread? Do you want a cogent philosophical refutation of the Hell doctrines? Do you want us to tell you it's just not true and to not worry about it? Do you want us to tell you that your sister's perfectly fine, but that it's okay for you to absolutely not listen to her? Do you want the theology of it? Do you want us to tell you that God told us that Hell isn't real? Do you want us to give you a magic pill that allows you to deal with it without actually dealing with it?

 

What exactly are you asking for?

 

I just want to know if it could be true what my Sister is saying, I told my Mum, she says it has been going on since last year, is not worried though.

 

 

 

If you really have some kind of need that we can provide for, we'd be happy to do so. But we need to know what that need is. So far, a number of members have put in the time and care to give you some lengthy and thoughtful answers, yet you come back with nothing but short one-line posts which give us absolutely no indication of whether any of our replies are even anywhere remotely close to the mark of what you want. I'm still not convinced that you're not a troll. I'm darn close to moving this thread elsewhere, perhaps to Rants, maybe even to Humor and Satire.

 

Loren

[florduh]

[Karhoof]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think I'll just take a seat over here and watch the show.

[DirtbagDan]

Huh? What?? Are you serious???

 

Cutie, you need to tell us the truth, otherwise YOU ARE WASTING OUR TIME.

 

This thread should be locked after Cutie's next post, unless Cutie provides some substance for us in her post.

[cutie]

Huh? What?? Are you serious???

 

Cutie, you need to tell us the truth, otherwise YOU ARE WASTING OUR TIME.

 

This thread should be locked after Cutie's next post, unless Cutie provides some substance for us in her post.

 

 

I am telling the truth.