Looking For Help In Posting Better And Attracting More Friends On The Board.

[Ameen]

Hello.

 

As some of you know, I was on Atheist Nexus before I joined this one. I was also on another atheist board whose name escapes me before Atheist Nexus. Neither of those boards met my need for support, understanding, and friendship, which is why I left them and tried this one. Yesterday I was thinking very seriously about leaving this board and looking for number four, but there are things I like about this board; for this reason, I thought I would simply be honest and ask for advice.

 

I need to know what I should post about. The bulk of threads I start get no response or only one or two responses. The fault is probably mine, as these threads are usually only marginally related to atheism and thus appear in Off Topic. I am not always up to discussing atheism and Christianity as the topics are still very, very painful. What I really want is to talk about a variety of issues with atheists who won't judge me. In other words, I want to talk to atheists with whom I feel comfortable, but the topic need not be atheism or Christianity. In fact, I would prefer if it were not. So... Any suggestions for topics that will get responses?

 

I have tried posting in some of the threads started by others and have had mixed results. I guess the problem, as I see it, is that I have been here a while now yet there is not even one person I feel close to or really talk to. A lot of people on this board have talked about how close they are to folks here and how much they love the people here. What am I doing wrong? I feel nothing--the same as I feel nothing for Jesus. Being here is like being in Christianity. I hear others talking about things I cannot feel.

 

All the best,

 

Ameen

[florduh]

I don't think atheism is the overriding topic here. Right now it's political shit. Someone else left because of that.

 

You are a great story teller and have some great stories. There is a large gay contingent here, and I can't name anyone who is anti-gay. This place is very supportive. The Christian fear and loathing is always topical. Your remodeling adventure was fun. Whatever interests you is worth sharing. No, it won't always be as interesting to others as it might be to you, but you never know!

 

People enjoy many of your posts, but not every posting will take off. A particular post may sit idle for weeks, or months, then someone stumbles upon it at a relevant time and it takes off.

 

I feel nothing--the same as I feel nothing for Jesus.

I can't believe you don't love me!

[Ouroboros]

Ameen,

 

It's so hard to say what will give responses, or not. I have started many topics which never got one single post, and then sometimes they just take off. It's trial and error, and never give up. I think what is most important is to not take it personal when no one replies, or to think that you did something wrong. A lot of times its just a matter of hit-n-miss. But one thing I say from my personal experience, is that the title either catches my interest or not, and if doesn't, it's very likely I might not go in at all. So catchy, good, and comprehensive title is the first key.

[FiddlingAround]

Well, I'm not really that active on the board (I read a lot but don't post much), so I may not be the best person to reply. But for what it's worth, here are my observations.

 

The people who I would characterize as "popular" on the boards are people who post A LOT. Maybe not every post they make is responded to a lot, or even at all, but they put their opinions out their on a variety of subjects, so eventually they end up in conversation.

 

Second, it might help to respond to those who respond to you. I've been the one to respond on a couple of your threads, and you never posted anything in reply. I'm not complaining, and it didn't hurt my feelings or anything. It just can't really be a conversation unless you reply to my reply and so on.

 

Third, I've only used the shoutbox once, but it seems to be a good place for the one-on-one interaction you seem to be craving at this point. Might be worth a try.

[Shyone]

Hello.

 

So... Any suggestions for topics that will get responses?

All the best,

 

Ameen

Boy, that's a tough one. I think the key is to figure out what people are interested in, but then I read threads without responding, but that doesn't mean I'm not interested.

 

First thing will be to figure out what you find interesting and/or controversial. What gets you going?

 

I'm sure you've noticed some of the "off-topic" threads. Political stuff. I don't want to seem presumptuous about what you might find interesting because I don't know you. I'm therefore a little worried about even making suggestions.

 

I get responses sometimes because I dare to put my foot in my mouth or make controversial posts. Humor, whether in the humor section or in the off-topic section, is nice. I can see people smile on the other end, and that gives me pleasure.

 

I think posts that ask questions while also providing enough information to allow others to either form an opinion or start doing their own research to answer the question garner the most responses. And, of course, specific calls for advice (usually not technical - unless you're in a position to sort the wheat from the chaff).

 

Paradoxically, some of the best posts that are most complete are those that get no responses. The posts says it all.

 

Oh, btw, if you read something in your local newspaper, a magazine, or online that you disaagree with, bring it here and present the article, your opinion and reasoning, and see if your opinion is validated or if people disagree with your reasoning. You will probably find both.

[noob]

Dear, dear Ameen…I don’t know how to answer your question about how to post. I too have difficulty in that area. I am not a deep, theological thinker. I AM an ex-christian and I have an interest in how becoming an ex-christian impacts others. But, I do not have an interest in biblical inerrancy, who and what Christ is or was, or any other deep study of what the bible says or means. Quite frankly, it bores me and I do not give a flying fuck about any of it.

 

I love reading about how free people feel once they drop the delusion, about how happy they feel once they rid themselves of the belief in their sinful nature. I like the off topic threads and the posts that give me a little insight into the lives of the people who have abandoned the fairy tale. I get teary-eyed when I see how supportive people can be of each other. I have seen incredible patience and caring on this board and I stand in awe of some of the individuals who post here.

 

I’ve enjoyed many of your posts and your pictures, but sometimes I hesitate to be the first or only person to respond to you. I certainly don’t want you to think I am strange or unusually attached to you! I’ll admit that for some reason I have a tenderness toward you. Perhaps it is your honesty and your vulnerability. I feel the same tenderness and affection for several others who post here.

 

As I type this response, I find myself wondering if you have gone out of your way to respond to others who post? I believe I have seen you do so, but I am not certain that is true.

 

Personally, I would hate to see you leave. I look forward to your posts, although I do not always respond. Sometimes I am so wrapped up in what is happening in my life, that it is difficult to reach out and be there for others. Can you tell me what you are looking for from the board? Is it for others to be interested in the same topics that you find interesting? Is it for others to be interested in the details of your life? I don’t mean to sound stupid but this is the ONLY board where I have posted so I have no expectations and nothing to compare it to.

 

I hope you find what you are searching for. I am fond of you and would miss you if you were to leave.

 

Hugs,

noob

 

(Please note: Typos and mispellings may occur after numerous margaritas!!! )

[FiddlingAround]

 

(Please note: Typos and mispellings may occur after numerous margaritas!!! )

 

What a coincidence. I'm more talkative than usual tonight because I've had many glasses of wine. I don't drink very often, but when I do I often DRINK. My spelling probably won't suffer, though, because I'm kind of anal about it.

 

In any case, I too would miss Ameen if he were to go. So stick around, Ameen!

[RabbleRabble]

Don't leeeeave!!! I know you feel ignored, but you are one of a few posters that has really managed to stick in my head and I always see your topics and read them even though I rarely respond. I would definitely miss you.

 

I'm afraid I can't give much in the way of advice for what topics to post. I'm more of a responder and have only started 3 threads, 2 of which have generated no responses, and 1 of those being a link to an interesting topic that was later re-posted by someone else and got some attention.

 

There are a few reasons why I might not respond to a particular thread. Half the time it's just because I don't have any knowledge of the subject and would have little to say. Sometimes I'll get halfway through writing a response before deciding that I sound stupid and deleting it. (still getting through that x-tian instilled low self esteem) There are also times I simply get distracted after reading the post and forget what I was doing by the time I get back. (I think that's what happened to my response to your tech support rant) I've also started trying to avoid the political threads for the same reason I avoid the opinion section of the newspaper.

 

Anyway... all this to say that I don't have any answers, but I like you and your threads. I also find it really fun that we have the same celebrity crushes

 

 

**edited to add the note that I am also drinking. rum and coke**

[Legion]

Ameen I confess. I’ve noticed that I don’t speak at length with many here who have less than 500 posts or so. I mean, so many come and go and I guess I don’t want to make an emotional investment in a transient. But then, it might be that without a bit of TLC, people are more likely to be transient.

 

Anyway, I hope you won’t leave.

[Franko47]

Actually, it was good for you to speak up about this, Ameen. Bring it on with stuff you'd like to talk about. There's been a couple of times I refrained from posting in your threads because I didn't want to derail the topic.

 

Message board/community sites can be tricky sometimes; but usually people do notice one's bullshit more than we think. I like this place because it's got a lot of people who strike me as very authentic and have a sincere empathy for each other's difficulties and angst, without getting too mushy about it. Although mushy can be nice sometimes.

 

By the way, where's my Ex-C T shirt ?

[Ameen]

Hi there.

 

Please... I was not looking for a "don't leave" response! I am not leaving; in fact, I posted this thread BECAUSE I want to stay. (I hate people who threaten to leave and never do; that is not something I will ever do.)

 

florduh: I think a lot of it is my own insecurity, my own negative feelings about myself stemming from Christianity/being told how worthless I was over and over and, of course, my OCD. This is why I am talking it out. With OCD in particular, the idea is not to run away from fears but to face them head on without reassurance.

 

Of course, as an OCD person and a human being I crave reassurance, but that is the worst thing for OCD. What I really need is some ideas about how to be a better (not necessarily more popular) board user.

 

Noob praises you to the skies, so I think you're a cool guy. And if it helps... I love Dr. House very much (and would soooooooooo do him)--although I admit Wilson is the one I have a crush on. If I were straight, I would soooooo be into Dr. Cuddy. She's ten times hotter than Cameron, in my opinion.

 

I just haven't watched the more recent seasons since I could not get into the newbies the way I did Foreman, Cameron and Chase. I did watch the first few seasons faithfully, though.

 

Han Solo: Got it. I don't mind the trial, but right now I want fewer errors!

 

Fiddling Around: I am very, very sorry if I missed your responses somewhere (especially when the board's functions changed and I spent weeks trying to figure out how to navigate), but I do at least remember our posting back and forth about my going to a synagogue to hear the music. Usually, I write long replies to people who have responsed in a thread I have started--just like this, in fact.

 

ShyOne: I don't DARE get into politics. I am too liberal and freethinking for my own good, and I would just get myself into trouble. There are a lot of threads here that are critical of liberal politics, Obama's agenda, and so forth, and I stay far away from them since I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way.

 

I have been shouted down by Christians and/or political conservatives and/or people who are opposed to gay equality so many times, and it is not healthy for me (let alone good for my OCD). I have only two message boards: this one and the OCD board on which I have done volunteer work since 2004. I just don't bother otherwise. I have many, many university students with various needs and usually work beyond the hours I am paid so that they get what they need. I am passionate about teaching, science fiction, atheism, languages, literature, history, music (both singing it myself on stage and listening to it) and, of course, my dream man Jensen Ackles. That's about it.

 

O.K., I'll get controversial in hopes it will attract a few people. I guarantee this is stuff even those who have read every word I have ever posted on this board do not know about me.

 

Everyone:

 

I will probably shock people, but I have stopped reading newspapers for the same reason I stopped going to church. Everything I read or hear is a construct, and I am too tired to hunt for the truth. I just don't care any more. I am 44 and more than half my life is over; I want to enjoy what is left since I have not enjoyed most of it thanks to Christianity, homophobia and OCD. This is the part of my life where I am finally in charge of those three wicked sisters, and I don't want to waste any of it on things I am no longer capable of caring about.

 

I read voraciously and usually have my nose in five different books in more than one language at once. To me, reading good literature or within any of the fields I mentioned a few paragraphs up is more important than the stupidity that fills The New York Times (which is at least semi-intelligent) and the even worse stupidty in rags like The New York Post and The Daily News--or on TV and radio. Every day on the way to work I am forced to see the billboard for Dennis Miller's conservative radio show and how it is "combatting liberal lunacy." I am demoralized beyond words and I just give up.

 

I have also been careful to say that I "support" Obama, but I never claimed to have voted for him because I no longer vote. Again, I just don't care; I have been lied to enough in my life. Politician, theologian... Same thing. I am trapped in a theocracy where I am a non-entity whether or not I vote, and I am tired of being mocked. (I live in a very Republican neighborhood of otherwise liberal New York City since I can afford the rent here and because I need to be within walking distance of my parents' place for the health emergencies they have every so often. This area never goes to Democrats or liberals; it's all about being conservative enough for voters. My Brooklyn neighborhood also has more churches per block than any other area in New York City! And don't even start on the local homophobia despite a very, very small number of gays who are also stuck living here. It is such a relief to teach in Manhattan instead of here.)

 

O.K., is that controversial enough? I think it's the most controversial I have been on the board.

 

Here's another one. I'm a celibate atheist, as the last time I had sex or even dated was age 34 in August 1999. And I was still a Christian of sorts then (although also quite agnostic); I have never had sex as an atheist--or in the twenty-first century. (I do masturbate, though.)

 

It's so hard for me to trust anyone beyond a handful of people I am close to after the way I have been hurt again and again--and besides the people who come on to me are women and gay Christian males. Part of it is my own fault, as I don't look for gay atheist guys to date. I actually have far less contact with anything gay than most people realize.

 

It's O.K. to disagree with me, but please don't mock me. This is who and where I am. I am the most emotional/committed when I am with my students or the few people I care about, when I am teaching, when I am reading or watching DVDs, and when I am singing. There's little else that gets a rise out of me since my emotions were abused by Christianity/homophobia/OCD for years.

 

Noob: Thank you for the kind words. I would never think badly of you.

 

I do post to others in need, particularly if there is an OCD issue. Others on the board have contacted me about, say, Member X or Member Y, and often those conversations occur in private. I am so past being ashamed of my OCD issues that I don't care who knows, but that is not true of others.

 

I don't spend a lot of time with others' issues on this board unless I am asked, in which case I spend a lot of time on them. I get anywhere from five to twenty panicky messages a week on my OCD board, and after solving the problems of the world there--literally, as I have recently PMed Finland, Bolivia, India, Belgium...--I just don't have the energy to do it here too. Thus, I don't look for people to help here. If I found myself in the same role here as on my other board, I really would quit! I do need downtime!

 

Also, I confess that when I see a thread with 40 responses, I shy away. I feel that others will say it better than I, and, for selfish reasons, I don't want my voice lost on a long, long thread. I crave a lot of (read that as too much) attention.

 

RabbleRabble: Oh, do I know that Christian-instilled low self-esteem! Thank you too for the kind words.

 

LegionRegalis: Actually, I think you have indeed posted to me a lot. I remember how I 'met' you too, when I questioned one of your posts because I did not know if it was serious or in jest.

 

Franko47: Never worry about being off topic in any thread I start! I think I am off topic in about half my replies in others' threads...

[Shyone]

Hi there.

 

 

ShyOne: I don't DARE get into politics. I am too liberal and freethinking for my own good, and I would just get myself into trouble. There are a lot of threads here that are critical of liberal politics, Obama's agenda, and so forth, and I stay far away from them since I don't want to rub anyone the wrong way.

 

I have been shouted down by Christians and/or political conservatives and/or people who are opposed to gay equality so many times, and it is not healthy for me (let alone good for my OCD). I have only two message boards: this one and the OCD board on which I have done volunteer work since 2004. I just don't bother otherwise. I have many, many university students with various needs and usually work beyond the hours I am paid so that they get what they need. I am passionate about teaching, science fiction, atheism, languages, literature, history, music (both singing it myself on stage and listening to it) and, of course, my dream man Jensen Ackles. That's about it.

 

O.K., I'll get controversial in hopes it will attract a few people. I guarantee this is stuff even those who have read every word I have ever posted on this board do not know about me.

There are two things one does not talk about in polite company: Religion and Politics.

 

Both are divisive, so you can expect to step on some toes, but don't fear your political beliefs, and don't refrain from expressing them. I'm probably more liberal than you. I support having the State raise children beginning immediately after weaning. Just kidding, but even if you offend someone, you will probably find someone else that thinks like you do.

 

The most interesting posts, IMO, are those that deal with injustice. They pull at your heartstrings, they scream for a resolution, and they are invariably controversial - in a good way. One person's injustice is another person's justice. Looking at something from two sides sometimes allows us to grow, and at least try to understand how other people think. It also affords us an opportunity to change either their opinions or ours.

 

BTW, you must type at least 80 words per minute.

[Guest Davka]

Hey Ameen! I keep waiting for a response from you on getting your PC problems fixed. I'm willing to help. Do you know how to use the Private Message function on the board?

[Shyone]

Hey Ameen! I keep waiting for a response from you on getting your PC problems fixed. I'm willing to help. Do you know how to use the Private Message function on the board?

I'm telling you Ameen, he's trying to help - go for it.

 

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. That should be the board motto. (I'm really kidding here, but how about "share and share alike").

[Legion]

LegionRegalis: Actually, I think you have indeed posted to me a lot.

Wait a minute Ameen. I just realized you were a gay, liberal Yankee. Please feel free to leave.

 

Just kidding.

 

I remember how I 'met' you too, when I questioned one of your posts because I did not know if it was serious or in jest.

Yeah, I’m prone to use sarcasm despite the fact that I know it doesn’t carry well in print. But I can’t seem to help myself.

[Kyle]

Try not to sweat it Ameen. I rarely start a new thread, but my replies rarely get any attention . I guess we all come for different reasons. I'm mostly a reader here. I've only contacted a couple of people in PMs

 

Just keep throwing random stuff out there. I enjoyed your remodel because that is the kind of stuff I enjoy doing.

 

Anyway, glad you're here

[HRDWarrior]

Unfortunately I don't know you very well myself - I've seen some of your posts, but in all honesty I probably can't recall which ones were yours specificially, but I would say I'm somewhat forum savvy in general, so here's my experiences:

 

Between this and other forums I'm on, I've found that the posts that tend to get the most replies are ones where someone is asking for advice, help, or other opinions on the subject. Often a post just describing something leaving no window for others opinions tends to maybe get a couple responses - doesn't mean people don't read them, they just don't feel as strong of a need to respond. Also, when the OP replies to people, and perhaps asks them to expound on their answer, the threads tend to keep going a lot longer. This is pretty common in here, and the 3-4 other forums I am currently active in, and others I used to be active in, with subjects ranging from religion to dogs to motorcycles. So I think it's just how things are online.

 

If you notice, this thread is garnering a number of responses - and I think it's partially because of the above reason.

 

A good title with a subtitle will also get people's attention - some key phrases include "need help" "want opinions" "what do you think" "anyone dealt with this" etc. Pictures also get attention, but whether they get responses or not depends, that can be hit and miss in my experience, but better than just typed words if pictures are appropriate.

 

Post counts may or may not get attention, but someone with a lot of posts does tend to get more respect in the online community. Some of this is because you've posted enough for people to really get to know you, they understand that your advice is valuable, and they have a better idea of where you're coming from. When we are below that range, you can get lost in the mix. This particular forum is a bit smaller than some of my others, so maybe 500 is kinda the number here. In one of my forums, until you're well over 1000 posts you're still seen as a bit of "newbie" because there are so many people on the board, and it takes longer to establish yourself.

 

I also enjoy the shoutbox here - not everyone chats, but it does give a chance to get to know some members a little better, which can be nice.

 

So, that's my $.02, of course, you get what you pay for

[Mike D]

I have been here a while now yet there is not even one person I feel close to or really talk to. A lot of people on this board have talked about how close they are to folks here and how much they love the people here. What am I doing wrong?

It's hard for me to believe now that I think about it, but I found this site in 2003 and since then it's gone through 3 forum software changes (that's many of the "old timers" here don't have a registration date prior to April '05), and i've seen many people come and go. During that time there have been periods where I was very active in posting and other periods like over the last year where I haven't logged in or even thought about this place for months. And it's not because I gave up on the place or didn't like it anymore, it's really just because i've been so busy over the last year trying to focus my energy on other things in my life, I haven't had any time for it.

 

Having said that, one of the reasons I always come back is I really do love this site and the people. Sure there have been the occasional person here and there I didn't like (or even hated in a couple of instances, lol), but those people tended to show up here, post for 6 months, then left usually after posting an overly dramatic "exit thread" blasting all of the members here - I guess it's more fun to go out in a hail of bullets, eh? On the other hand, there have been a couple of members I can think of who I thought walked on water *cough* Asimov *cough* (hey since Jebus can't someone has to, right?), but just as the idiots left and moved on with their lives, so have some of the people I liked. And there's a couple people that are still here that I try to keep in touch with through email even if I don't come to the site.

 

But, over the entire 6 years i've been on this site I can only think of maybe 3 or 4 people that I would consider good friends. That doesn't mean that I don't like the other 2,000+ past or present members here (In fact that couldn't be further from the truth, there are many people here I have a great deal of respect for even if I never talk to them outside of a thread), it just means that some people don't connect or bond as easily as others, and I guess I am one of those people. If you are too, maybe you just need to give it some time?

[BlueGiant]

Personally, I've appreciated the threads you've started on here, though I am not a big poster, usually. I have very much appreciated your insight into OCD, actually. It's helped me get some degree of understanding it, and help me understand others who deal with it.

 

And agreed with others: starting threads are really hit or miss here. Some take off, some just get read without much discussion.

[ShallowByThyGame]

I only check about four discussion areas personally, so I probably haven't seen many of your posts. I try to keep my politics on other areas of the internet because this site for me is mostly about recovering from religion.

 

It may be that what you really need in a real live support group since you can't expect to form meaningful online friendships easily. Since you live in the 'greatest city in the world' I think really you'd only need to know where to look.

 

Perhaps you cannot 'feel' because you cannot trust. Trust is the foundation upon all emotional interaction. I think you need to challenge yourself to begin trusting parts of your world again, even if you start with simple things. Life will always be a confusing grey morass..there are never clear 'good' answers. You have to evaluate it as best you can.

 

Life is about exploring the world. I know it can be scary and seem pointless, but I feel you need to come out of a mental shell if you want the rest of your life to be more than waiting for the end. I hope I'm not over evaluating with my armchair psychiatry, but you can't progress without taking risks. And giving up is the greatest risk of all.

 

And keep in mind you're dealing with ex-christians here, so we all got issues

[★ Citsonga ★]

The fault is probably mine, as these threads are usually only marginally related to atheism and thus appear in Off Topic.

 

I don't think I've ever even looked at the Off Topic board myself. Maybe I'll have to check it out....

[Mongo]

LegionRegalis: Actually, I think you have indeed posted to me a lot.

Wait a minute Ameen. I just realized you were a gay, liberal Yankee. Please feel free to leave.

 

Just kidding.

 

 

Aw Legion, I never realized this about you.

 

I like you but a little bit less than before.

 

Just kidding. (maybe)

 

Ameen - All those right wing dorks can have the finger. Actually, I can't think of any truly right wing (nuts) on this board. Liberals ARE welcome here!!!! I'm sure you and I have our differences. C'est la vie!

 

BTW - the many Libertarians have a few valid points but they take much of their world view too far. The left does that too but I find it harder to spot - that would be due to my liberal bias. (Ameen, watch the firestorm this causes. Ha ha ha.)

 

Mongo

[Mongo]

I need to know what I should post about. The bulk of threads I start get no response or only one or two responses. The fault is probably mine...

 

 

Ameen,

 

Alot of people don't respond to my posts. Sometimes they are very long - perhaps unnecessarily. Sometimes they dig into an area that perhaps many people are not familiar and don't feel they have enough information to respond.

 

I don't have the "gift" of posting topical information but I try when I have time. As well, I often don't have time to keep a dialog going - I post and run.

 

What I hope is my strength is posting in response to people's personal content as in this particular thread. I've had my emotions and behaviours to deal with over my lifetime and I like sharing with others if it helps.

 

Whatever your strength is, make contact on those threads and exchange views.

 

As to some of the personal stuff you don't want to talk about... many people, as I do, will let some part of our past emerge as part of someone else's thread. I encourage you to share small snippits of your personality and experiences as long as you are comfortable. Evolve - don't jump off a cliff.

 

It matters to me that ex-christians find some level of support and I think this site is a good resting place for the weary apostates. Whether you or others stay is less important to me than whether you find comfort in a shared experience. I do however hope you stay.

 

I hope you give these folks a chance. Quite frankly, I think this site is sometimes unfriendly to newbies. Some of the folks here get their buttons stuck and when they misunderstand a person, they can have a tough time getting past that. It happened recently on another thread but I think that thread worked out.

 

Dom't be hard on yourself and to be fair... don't expect too much of others. There are always a dozen people who make up most of the postings. The rest of us are like you. Really!

 

Take care,

 

Mongo

[Legion]

Aw Legion, I never realized this about you.

What did you realize Mongo? That I have a sense of humor?

[Mongo]

Wait a minute Ameen. I just realized you were a gay, liberal Yankee. Please feel free to leave.

 

Just kidding.

 

Legion,

 

I figured your joke was hinged on the idea that you'd want him to leave since he was opposite to you.

 

If that were true then you are suggesting you are a conservative(as well as hetro and a Confederate).

 

What I hadn't realized is that you're a conservative. Let's hope you're not a Neocon. Just kidding.

 

I was just turning your joke on its head by saying I like you (just a tad) less for being conservative since you joked that it would be OK to you for him to leave for being liberal.

 

That it fell flat... so sad.

 

Mongo