Why Is That Damn Title So Important?

[hereticzero]

Believe it or not, back in the day when I did Christian counseling (that sounds really stupid these days!), I always asked a couple living together for several years to reconsider getting married. Why fix something that ain't broken? A marriage license only shows the couple paid their taxes to be married, the license does not show how committed the couple is to each other. I still see couples that were living together get married and then get a divorce a few years later, mostly because of interference by in-laws who cannot leave the new married couple the hell alone. I do not see why a couple should be required by law to get married in order for them to enjoy their partner's insurance or other benefit--love the one you're with! I think it is stupid to require a tax before someone can get married. Prior to the law, the couples wanting to live together published that fact in the local paper and then recorded the names of their kids in the family Bible. Then Uncle Sam decided he had to poke his big nose into marriage to see who had how many kids required to go to school. The marriage license gave the government access to our private lives.

 

I guess I was just a closet-atheist all those years and never knew it?

[belladonna]

I agree with the whole social conditioning; I live in LDS country (Idaho actually has more LDS per capita than Utah, if you can believe that one), and these girls are taught from the time they are little that the most fulfilling thing they can do with their lives is become wives and mothers. Some of them do get educations, but a lot get married as soon as their "boyfriends" come back from their missions. Most have a baby within the first year. I often get into heated discussions with people of the faith over this, only to hear them swear to me that women are more fulfilled in the role God chose for them if they are willing to submit to that role.

 

I personally wish this society would get over the mindset that women still need to be protected by marriage and by man, and I am doing everything to teach my daughters that they alone are responsible for their own fulfillment. I don't want them growing up thinking marriage and children are the only way to go; after all, there is a whole world out there for them to explore and experience. If they decide they want to get married, then I will support that decision as well - but it will be their decision, and I won't dictate the hows and whys of it.

 

I had to laugh at Midnight Mindwanderings, too, because I have the same problem. I don't have a traditional 9-5 job, but I do work - I ranch. I run two places complete with farming, cattle, horses and chickens, and I handle all the operations myself. I load and unload all my own hay and grain, I castrate my calves and vaccinate my cows. I run the tractors, handle the planting and the harvest. But whenever I have to go somewhere like an insurance company or a doctor's office, and they ask me about my place of employment and I say "self", they 9 times out of 10 will put my title down as "homemaker". Now, there is nothing wrong with being a homemaker, if that's what you are and if that's what you want to be. But I'm not. I hate even being in my house for extended periods of time, and cleaning it is my own personal hell. In fact, there is a dust bunny under my desk who has been staring at me for the past three days and who I have avoided vacuuming up strictly on principle. (Yes, my house stays picked up and clean, but I am far from obsessive about it...not when there's fence to be fixed.)

 

And I throw a fit every time. Call it arrogance, call it ego. But it pisses me off.

[Guest sixidahos]

I can't get married. It's illegal in most states. My partner and I have been together 13 years in Dec. A license would not make us more committed, but it is a legal contract offering financial benefits. Collecting a spouse's Social Security, etc.

 

Agreed. I'm glad somebody brought it up.

 

Sacraments or feelings aside, at the end of the day, Marriage is a legal contract.

 

The extra crap religion loads on top of it is just unnecessary BS.

 

This is exactly why I view the right Gays to marry as a Civil Rights issue. No Church has the right to marry anyone that isn't granted that right by the State.

 

It is a legally binding contract that offers several layers of legal protection and tax benefits.

 

It is not Confirmation, Baptism, or any other religious ceremony. It's a legally binding contract that can be instituted in a religious setting.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are concerns with emotion, compatibility, and other less 'legally minded' issues. It's not something most people if anyone should do with someone they do not know or dislike.

 

However, at the end of the day, it is what it is. It's a legal agreement to share property, file income together, share responsibility and custody of any children, and protects property and governs how it is handled in the event of a break up or death, and provides benefits in taxes. It's also useful for other things, such as credit, and makes things easier, allowing access and legal clout as family members in hospitals and other such institutions.

 

It's ironic how it's a wondrous event with God and ceremony to get it done, but to undo it, you've got to go to court and the Church has little to nothing to do with it.

 

Religion has no say in marriage honestly. They can only decide who they choose to join with their State Granted authority to perform marriages.

 

It's done on the authority of the State, not the Church. Which is exactly why not allowing Gays to marry is unconstitutional and none of any Church's fucking business to begin with. They're using borrowed authority to do it in the first place, and have none of their own in the matter.

 

As I said, it's something that should be done with care and forethought, but it's not 'spiritual' or 'holy'. It's a legal matter, a contract, and it's no one's business who another person chooses to willingly form a legitimate legally binding contract with. Everyone has a right to benefit from a legal partnership with anyone they choose.

 

The Churches are just waving about and claiming an authority and power that doesn't belong to them in the first place. It's granted to them by the State, and they've got no valid claim on it as 'theirs' to begin with.

Well said. You articulated my feelings exactly. Thanks.

 

Anthony

[thefriendlyghost]

Fuck, this is embarrassing, but the ONLY reason I got married, at 21 years old- besides love, of course- was.....yep, my fear of hell. We were living in sin, and I was afraid god would strike me dead and send me off to neverending torment. I am so goddamned lucky it work out; my husband is a wonderful man, and we though we have been through some HUGE struggles, we have made it 8 years. It's funny- I was never big into the whole 'get married, raise a family thing'. My relationship just happened to coincide with my hundredth attempt to 'get right with god'. I think it helps that we have no kids- and I have read reports that show married couples that are childfree have a higher success rate. But, who knows? Shit happens...If I could do it over again, I wouldn't get married, we'd just live together, because, frankly, I really don't give a shit about weddings, or any of the crap women are supposed to be interested in- raising children, being a 'career woman', shoes...Heck, I'm like the stereotype of a twentysomething dude- lazy, unmotivated, juvenile at times, but I'm happy that way. I'd always tried to contort who I was to fit in the neat little box christianty constructed for women: One dimensional, chipper, humble, quiet, meek...I think I'm gonna puke.

[SEEtheScorn]

Friendly ghost, I hear you. Most of my reasons for rushing to get married was because we were pushing lines that Christianity says do not cross. But, I also turned out with a great man. We met online too. Gotta love it.

 

I'm sure we can all state situations where not getting married has ruined lives.

 

My grandmother, of course being raised as she did, was convinced re-marriage was a sin. Even though her husband left her with 3 kids for another women and never supported her, she never married the man who I grew up knowing as my grandfather figure. They loved each other, never had sexual relations but kissed, dated, and he took good care of her.

 

Well, long story short, house was in his name. He was days short of writing his will, man was healthy as an ox, went in for surgery and that rare thing that can go wrong in surgery, happened. Coma, dead. Everything was taken from my grandmother in her old age. She had nothing. Nothing. She lived with her daughter for a few years before passing away herself. Saddest, most sickening situation I have ever known. Ruined our family.

 

So yes, it's a legal thing. But, marriage is also something that, realize, has been practiced one way another in almost every culture and religion in every time. Not always monogamous, but there is also a sense of belonging, connectiveness that is official.

[thefriendlyghost]

SEEtheScorn, that is one of the saddest things I've ever read. I am so sorry your grandmother went through that. My grandmother's boyfriend walked out on her when she was pregnant with my mother, and started up a few new families. He's a millionaire now- and he never paid child support or anything. But he's Catholic now, so he just goes to confession, and it's all better!! I've told my mom to go after his ass for back child support. What an asshole.

[belladonna]

Fuck, this is embarrassing, but the ONLY reason I got married, at 21 years old- besides love, of course- was.....yep, my fear of hell. We were living in sin, and I was afraid god would strike me dead and send me off to neverending torment. I am so goddamned lucky it work out; my husband is a wonderful man, and we though we have been through some HUGE struggles, we have made it 8 years. It's funny- I was never big into the whole 'get married, raise a family thing'. My relationship just happened to coincide with my hundredth attempt to 'get right with god'. I think it helps that we have no kids- and I have read reports that show married couples that are childfree have a higher success rate. But, who knows? Shit happens...If I could do it over again, I wouldn't get married, we'd just live together, because, frankly, I really don't give a shit about weddings, or any of the crap women are supposed to be interested in- raising children, being a 'career woman', shoes...Heck, I'm like the stereotype of a twentysomething dude- lazy, unmotivated, juvenile at times, but I'm happy that way. I'd always tried to contort who I was to fit in the neat little box christianty constructed for women: One dimensional, chipper, humble, quiet, meek...I think I'm gonna puke.

 

I am so glad I am not the only one who does not fit into the "typical woman" mold. I'm like you - I could give a royal rat's ass about shoes or shopping, and my wardrobe consists of shorts, tennies and t-shirts for the summer, and jeans, boots and sweatshirts for the winter.

[thefriendlyghost]

Bella- I LIVE in flannel. Wilyfem- I'm lucky, too. My mother has been SO supportive of my choice. But then again, she ran a home daycare. That might be why I never wanted kids. I used to avoid those little brats at all costs.

[belladonna]

I guess I lucked out. Even though my mom married and had five kids and chose to be a stay-at-home mom, she NEVER preached to us kids (all girls) about the "importance" of marriage and having kids, and never expected any of us to seek that as our main goal in life.

 

About time your ass showed up.

[belladonna]

Friendly ghost, I hear you. Most of my reasons for rushing to get married was because we were pushing lines that Christianity says do not cross. But, I also turned out with a great man. We met online too. Gotta love it.

 

I'm sure we can all state situations where not getting married has ruined lives.

 

My grandmother, of course being raised as she did, was convinced re-marriage was a sin. Even though her husband left her with 3 kids for another women and never supported her, she never married the man who I grew up knowing as my grandfather figure. They loved each other, never had sexual relations but kissed, dated, and he took good care of her.

 

Well, long story short, house was in his name. He was days short of writing his will, man was healthy as an ox, went in for surgery and that rare thing that can go wrong in surgery, happened. Coma, dead. Everything was taken from my grandmother in her old age. She had nothing. Nothing. She lived with her daughter for a few years before passing away herself. Saddest, most sickening situation I have ever known. Ruined our family.

 

So yes, it's a legal thing. But, marriage is also something that, realize, has been practiced one way another in almost every culture and religion in every time. Not always monogamous, but there is also a sense of belonging, connectiveness that is official.

 

I don't know why I missed this before, but I am sorry about what happened to your grandmother. What an awful, awful thing. And that whoever his next of kin was that took everything from her to do so was reprehensible. Hopefully, she is at some sort of peace now.