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Evil.


Skepticaldude541
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A short rant about evil. This was addressed to my mostly Christian readers.

 

It was partially inspired by this post: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/33518-a-question-for-davka/page__pid__489358__st__20entry489358

 

Isaiah 45

 

1Thus saith the LORD to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

 

2I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

 

3And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, the LORD, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

 

4For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me.

 

5I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

 

6That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

 

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

8Drop down...

 

 

Hey, wait a second, what was that?!

 

7I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

 

Wha? Yahweh creates evil? Evil? Ya, in the Hebrew the word means... Evil. Go figure.

 

Does that mean he is directly responsible for what evil has done to the world..? I'd like someone to show me where this doctrine that evil originated with man's sin in the garden is in the Old Testament.

 

I'm reasonably sure you can't, but you can try. Original sin is a Christian doctrine. Not a Jewish one.

 

This reminds me of a special little problem... Isn't Yahweh supposed to control everything? Doesn't that mean he is responsible for allowing evil?

How do you explain this?

 

2 Samuel

24:1 And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.

 

1 Chronicles 21

21:1 And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

 

The only explanation I've heard for this is that Satan is ultimately controlled by the Lord, therefore, it is really Yahweh doing it anyway. Isn't this a bit of a problem..? Doesn't that mean by implication that whatever Satan does is ultimately Yahweh doing it? Doesn't that also mean that Yahweh moved David to do something and then punished him for doing it? How can you trust someone like that?

 

Did I read the wrong version? (All verses are KJV) Or not use the right lexicon? Are these verses taken out of context? Do they have some magical dispensational meaning? Are they negated by the simple fact that they don't agree with your theology?

 

I'm completely wrong about all this right? That would be fine too. Maybe I'm right and everyone who reads is perfectly ok with a malevolent god. If that's the case you can count me out. I refuse to believe or worship a god if a human being can take better moral actions than he supposedly did.

 

Move alone, move along. Don't ask questions.

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Well.... Let's check some of the other versions of the bible:

 

New International Version Isaiah 45

 

7 I form the light and create darkness,

I bring prosperity and create disaster;

I, the LORD, do all these things.

 

New American Standard Bible same verse

 

7The One (R)forming light and (S)creating darkness,

Causing well-being and (T)creating calamity;

I am the LORD who does all these

 

Amplified Bible (I guess that means the loud version :HaHa: )

 

7I form the light and create darkness, I make peace [national well-being] and I create [physical] [a]evil (calamity); I am the Lord, Who does all these things.

 

American Standard Version

 

7 I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things.

 

 

 

Nope, I think you have it. The Lard Gawd created evil.

 

Good Post!

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"Move alone, move along. Don't ask questions."

 

Sorry, can't help it. What could possibly be more sinful than creating evil in a world which had none? So God is the ultimate sinner! Fascinating!

 

I was aware of this perplexing verse, but I hadn't really thought about your comment that Xtians believe that sin started with man in the Garden of Eden. Clearly ALL evil is ultimately God's fault since he created it. Gee, no wonder some folks think He should be worshipped...

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Hey, wait a second, what was that?!

 

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

 

 

Wha? Yahweh creates evil? Evil? Ya, in the Hebrew the word means... Evil. Go figure.

 

Does that mean he is directly responsible for what evil has done to the world..? I'd like someone to show me where this doctrine that evil originated with man's sin in the garden is in the Old Testament.

 

I'm reasonably sure you can't, but you can try. Original sin is a Christian doctrine. Not a Jewish one.

 

I was aware of this perplexing verse, but I hadn't really thought about your comment that Xtians believe that sin started with man in the Garden of Eden.

 

Yeah, it is a bit perplexing how Adam and Eve were so incredibly sinful in eating the fruit of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" if they couldn't have the knowledge to discern "good" from "evil" until eating from it. They couldn't possibly have known what they were doing was "evil" until it was too late. How fucked up is that?

 

Regarding the Christian doctrine of sin, there's also this verse:

 

1 Timothy 2:14

And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

In the Genesis story, Adam also ate the fruit, but this NT author (whether Paul or not) wants to blame Eve and let Adam off the hook. Even when I was a Christian, this verse left me scratching my head.

 

Clearly ALL evil is ultimately God's fault since he created it. Gee, no wonder some folks think He should be worshipped...

 

Isn't biblegawd such an amazing character?!

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