Did God Commit Adultery?

[Shyone]

ASV Matthew 1:18-20

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20. But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

 

If I understand what is being suggested here, Joseph wanted to kill Mary since the punishment for adultery is death.

 

And, of course, however you want to make it pretty, the Holy Sprite fucked her while she was married.

 

It is excused because fucking gods is not something humans can stop anyway. It seems strange that Joseph was not warned in advance and given the opportunity to refuse. That little oversight almost cost Mary her life.

 

That the union of the Holy Sprite and Mary resulted in a child is indesputable. The creation of this life is undeniably human even according to the apologists. This is, therefore, sexual reproduction and as Joseph suspected, adultery.

 

To say that "It's OK because it's God (or whatever kind of angel, ghost, or demon He used)" is to say that "Adultery is OK in this instance."

 

Talk about your relative morality!

[Skepticaldude541]

Oh come on Shyone, we all know it's ok if GOD does it. Just not if humans do it. It's the same thing with murder and lying.

[Shyone]

Oh come on Shyone, we all know it's ok if GOD does it. Just not if humans do it. It's the same thing with murder and lying.

But, but, but...

 

 

Yeah, I do seem to remember that from someplace...

[Guest Davka]

"Betrothed" doesn't mean married, it means engaged.

 

So God didn't commit adultery, he merely committed fornication with a young teen. Maybe we can get him on statutory rape charges?

[★ Citsonga ★]

ASV Matthew 1:18-20

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20. But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

 

If I understand what is being suggested here, Joseph wanted to kill Mary since the punishment for adultery is death.

 

I can see how you can arrive at that conclusion, but that doesn't appear to be what the text is actually saying. The Greek term used in the phrase "put her away" is "apolyo," which is defined:

 

apolyo

 

1) to set free

 

2) to let go, dismiss, (to detain no longer)

 

a) a petitioner to whom liberty to depart is given by a decisive answer

 

to bid depart, send away

 

3) to let go free, release

 

a) a captive i.e. to loose his bonds and bid him depart, to give him liberty to depart

 

to acquit one accused of a crime and set him at liberty

 

c) indulgently to grant a prisoner leave to depart

 

d) to release a debtor, i.e. not to press one's claim against him, to remit his debt

 

4) used of divorce, to dismiss from the house, to repudiate. The wife of a Greek or Roman may divorce her husband.

 

5) to send one's self away, to depart

 

So, the story is just saying that Joseph was going to divorce Mary (to my understanding, in their culture a divorce was required to break off a betrothal).

[GraphicsGuy]

It was done by magic. Magic, Holy Spirit sperm. Just one cell full of Holy DNA cleansed Mary's unholy egg to make a perfect child (a white, English-speaking child).

 

Once this child was born, his mother's hymen was magically sealed up. The Protestants think Joseph may have deflowered her after that, but they had no more kids. The Catholics say she remained a virgin since oral and anal don't count as intercourse.

[Karhoof]

I read it as "divorce" too.

What amazes me even more is, how Joseph remained a believer after being cockblocked by the holy spook like that.

 

 

The Catholics say she remained a virgin since oral and anal don't count as intercourse.

True. It's only a sin if you use a condom.

[par4dcourse]

I read it as "divorce" too.

What amazes me even more is, how Joseph remained a believer after being cockblocked by the holy spook like that.

 

The Catholics say she remained a virgin since oral and anal don't count as intercourse.

True. It's only a sin if you use a condom.

[Shyone]

"Betrothed" doesn't mean married, it means engaged.

 

So God didn't commit adultery, he merely committed fornication with a young teen. Maybe we can get him on statutory rape charges?

I don't agree with that. Re-read the lines here:

 

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

 

That says to me that they were married, but had not consumated the marriage. While that may have some significance to the Jews, I still see it as a violation of the marriage convenant.

 

Besides, if they weren't married here, then when were they married?

 

As for "putting her away", I suppose the intent was to say divorce, but the OT clearly calls for death.

[Shyone]

It was done by magic. Magic, Holy Spirit sperm. Just one cell full of Holy DNA cleansed Mary's unholy egg to make a perfect child (a white, English-speaking child).

 

Once this child was born, his mother's hymen was magically sealed up. The Protestants think Joseph may have deflowered her after that, but they had no more kids. The Catholics say she remained a virgin since oral and anal don't count as intercourse.

I still say at least one of Jesus' brothers is Joseph and Mary's baby.

[Guest Davka]

"Betrothed" doesn't mean married, it means engaged.

 

So God didn't commit adultery, he merely committed fornication with a young teen. Maybe we can get him on statutory rape charges?

I don't agree with that. Re-read the lines here:

 

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

 

That says to me that they were married, but had not consumated the marriage. While that may have some significance to the Jews, I still see it as a violation of the marriage convenant.

 

Besides, if they weren't married here, then when were they married?

 

As for "putting her away", I suppose the intent was to say divorce, but the OT clearly calls for death.

 

A couple of things - First of all, the word translated as "married" is aner, which according to Strong's Greek Lexicon (linked above) means "a man -- fellow; husband; man." It could mean "fiancé" as easily as "husband," as far as I can tell.

 

Second, in the culture of that time the marriage was not finalized until it had been consummated. As you point out, that had not happened yet. Since the rock-solid tradition was to have sex on the wedding night, followed by hanging the bloody sheets outside as a sign that the bride had, in fact, been a virgin (all praise the sacred hymen!), it is safe to assume that Joseph and Mary had not yet gone through a wedding ceremony.

 

Also, in Jewish culture the parents would choose their children's future marriage partners which the children were still quite young. So it could be said that in a sense a boy of 5 could be called "Martha's man (or husband)" even though the two would not actually be married for many years. For all we know, Joseph and Mary were not scheduled to actually have a marriage ceremony for many years.

 

Finally, there were various possible punishments for an unfaithful betrothed in those days. The Bible says to stone the unfaithful woman to death, but Jewish Rabbinic tradition had trumped the Bible long before Jesus came along. One course open to the cuckolded husband-to-be was to send the girl away, dissolving the engagement. Since the passage says that Joseph did not want Mary to be publicly humiliated - which is what he would have had to do in order to have her stoned to death in the way prescribed by the OT - it is safe to assume that by "put her away" it means send her off secretly and nullify the engagement.

 

I maintain that God is a pedophile pervert guilty of child molestation and statutory rape, not a simple adulterer.

[Ameen]

Good stuff for thought, Davka, Shyone, Citsonga and the rest of you! (Oh, how I wish I could read ancient languages too!)

 

Before I became a Fundie, I learned the story as follows in Presbyterian Sunday School in the 1970s. I don't know if it coincides with reality, though...: Joseph was as old man and Mary was a young woman. It was normal for an old man to take a young wife who would be his companion and maybe even his nurse; you still see this in the Middle East today. Joseph was too old to have sex, and that is why Mary was a virgin.

 

Now, the Madayln Murray O'Hair version from her October 1965 Playboy interview:

 

PLAYBOY: As an atheist, do you also reject the idea of the virgin birth?

 

MURRAY: Even if I believed there was a real Jesus, I wouldn't fall for that line of hogwash. The "Virgin" Mary should get a posthumous medal for telling the biggest goddamn lie that was ever told. Anybody who believes that will believe that the moon is made out of green cheese. If she could get away with something like that, maybe I should have tried it myself. I'm sure she played around as much as I have, and certainly was capable of an orgasm. Let's face it: If a son of God was ever born, it was because of this wonderful sex act that Joseph and Mary enjoyed one night.

 

source: http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/madplay.htm

[centauri]

"Betrothed" doesn't mean married, it means engaged.

 

So God didn't commit adultery, he merely committed fornication with a young teen. Maybe we can get him on statutory rape charges?

I don't agree with that. Re-read the lines here:

 

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

 

That says to me that they were married, but had not consumated the marriage. While that may have some significance to the Jews, I still see it as a violation of the marriage convenant.

 

Besides, if they weren't married here, then when were they married?

 

Being either married or betrothed carries the same death penalty for the man and woman unless the woman objected and was forced.

Deut 22:23-25

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

[Shyone]

"Betrothed" doesn't mean married, it means engaged.

 

So God didn't commit adultery, he merely committed fornication with a young teen. Maybe we can get him on statutory rape charges?

I don't agree with that. Re-read the lines here:

 

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

 

That says to me that they were married, but had not consumated the marriage. While that may have some significance to the Jews, I still see it as a violation of the marriage convenant.

 

Besides, if they weren't married here, then when were they married?

 

Being either married or betrothed carries the same death penalty for the man and woman unless the woman objected and was forced.

Deut 22:23-25

If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her;

Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you.

But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man force her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die.

So where did she and the Holy Sprite have sex? It sounds important.

 

Oh, really, it's all so silly. Who was the biologic father? Whose DNA? Who was the Holy Milkman?

[dagnarus]

I maintain that God is a pedophile pervert guilty of child molestation and statutory rape, not a simple adulterer.

 

Well I remember learning from my church that you can see what kind of person someone is by the laws they make, and those do happen to be the crimes which God is most soft on.

[Guest Davka]

So where did she and the Holy Sprite have sex? It sounds important.

 

In the back seat of his daddy's chariot, of course.

[Jin Kisaragi]

How exactly does a spirit have sex? It's debated amongst Protestants and Catholics, but also among just Protestants the age of Joseph in this little bit. The Catholics have the doctrine of immaculate conception as well as the perpetual virginity of Mary. (You won't really find them in the bible, but that's not important) As normal as it was for young women to get with older men, I don't think that Joseph was an old man, and that they were married(In the birth story, they were NOT married yet. Where did you find this information that they were?) and had children. (Thus, Jesus' mother and brothers later on.) Again, how exactly does a spirit have sex? Did the spirit have sex when it interacted with the men of the Old Testament?

[Shyone]

Again, how exactly does a spirit have sex? Did the spirit have sex when it interacted with the men of the Old Testament?

Clearly, it relates to the doctrine of inaccurate contraception.

[OpheliaGinger]

Again, how exactly does a spirit have sex? Did the spirit have sex when it interacted with the men of the Old Testament?

Clearly, it relates to the doctrine of inaccurate contraception.

 

Well, if my bible knowledge is correct, Yah in the form of a dove flew over Mary and a ray of light shone from the dove onto Mary--thus her impregnation. But as for a spirit/ghost having sex, it's supposedly the same as when living humans have sex except there is more tingling.

[Shyone]

Again, how exactly does a spirit have sex? Did the spirit have sex when it interacted with the men of the Old Testament?

Clearly, it relates to the doctrine of inaccurate contraception.

 

Well, if my bible knowledge is correct, Yah in the form of a dove flew over Mary and a ray of light shone from the dove onto Mary--thus her impregnation. But as for a spirit/ghost having sex, it's supposedly the same as when living humans have sex except there is more tingling.

My wife's an angel.

[OpheliaGinger]

Again, how exactly does a spirit have sex? Did the spirit have sex when it interacted with the men of the Old Testament?

Clearly, it relates to the doctrine of inaccurate contraception.

 

Well, if my bible knowledge is correct, Yah in the form of a dove flew over Mary and a ray of light shone from the dove onto Mary--thus her impregnation. But as for a spirit/ghost having sex, it's supposedly the same as when living humans have sex except there is more tingling.

My wife's an angel.

 

What, did she take a holy shit on you and somehow that got you pregnant. Miracle!

[Shyone]

Again, how exactly does a spirit have sex? Did the spirit have sex when it interacted with the men of the Old Testament?

Clearly, it relates to the doctrine of inaccurate contraception.

 

Well, if my bible knowledge is correct, Yah in the form of a dove flew over Mary and a ray of light shone from the dove onto Mary--thus her impregnation. But as for a spirit/ghost having sex, it's supposedly the same as when living humans have sex except there is more tingling.

My wife's an angel.

 

What, did she take a holy shit on you and somehow that got you pregnant. Miracle!

I was just thinking of the tingling when having sex with angels and other spirits. That's how I know my wife's an angel.

[NotBlinded]

ASV Matthew 1:18-20

18. Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When his mother Mary had been betrothed to Joseph, before they came together she was found with child of the Holy Spirit.

19. And Joseph her husband, being a righteous man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20. But when he thought on these things, behold, an angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit.

 

If I understand what is being suggested here, Joseph wanted to kill Mary since the punishment for adultery is death.

 

And, of course, however you want to make it pretty, the Holy Sprite fucked her while she was married.

 

It is excused because fucking gods is not something humans can stop anyway. It seems strange that Joseph was not warned in advance and given the opportunity to refuse. That little oversight almost cost Mary her life.

 

That the union of the Holy Sprite and Mary resulted in a child is indesputable. The creation of this life is undeniably human even according to the apologists. This is, therefore, sexual reproduction and as Joseph suspected, adultery.

 

To say that "It's OK because it's God (or whatever kind of angel, ghost, or demon He used)" is to say that "Adultery is OK in this instance."

 

Talk about your relative morality!

I haven't read all the responses yet, so it may have been addressed, if so, listen to it again!

 

Anyway...

 

Jesus was a bastard. He was conceived out of wedlock. In one of my books, the author makes some rather startling observations and connects them with this idea. It's noticed in the way Jesus feels about his mother and the way others treat her. It was pretty interesting and explains a lot in the bible about this sensed tension between Mary and Jesus and the society towards Mary.

[Karhoof]

Well, I know my wife is an angel 'cause it's a miracle when have sex.

 

 

 

 

 

 

*OUCH!*

"Just kidding Honey!"

[NotBlinded]

 

My wife's an angel.

Ahhhh...that's the sweetest thing!