Mormons Say, Let Them Believe What They Will

[JPA]

I am not sure how much you guys deal with Mormons, but I have been having an interesting conversation with one on Facebook. It started out as a thread about, "Does God exist" with a video about god not creating evil. Well the conversation turned into something else when I realized this person was a Mormon and not a typical Protestant. She quoted the Book of Mormon which threw me off for a second. Where do you find Nephi in the bible? Oh thats right you dont. Well here is the conversation as it went on.

 

Mormon:

quotes Book of Mormon "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

 

I responded with:

I didnt realize you were LDS. Sounds a lot like Psalms 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."

However, I disagree. Atheists do good things just like everyone else.

 

Mormon:

dont think, nor does the reference i sited imply that Atheist are bad people doing bad things. It just states that those who choose to lean on their own limited understanding and wisdom are only cheating themselves. It is a prideful arrogance that says we know all things, or must have proof in order to believe. I as a religious person, don't claim to know all things, but do profess a belief in a God that does know all things.

 

I responded:

But isn't it equally arrogant to state that you have the only "true" god and everyone else is wrong and condemned by your god if they dont believe the way you do. To be honest the exclusivity of Christianity is one of the reasons I left the church in the first place. I felt it was arrogant.

 

Mormon:

As one of our articles of Faith states..."We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God, according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how where or what they may."

 

I responded:

Well I must admit, I didn't know that about the LDS church. It is very good of them. However, it brings up a different problem. If the articles of your faith allow all men the privilege to worship any way they like then why do you go door to door trying to get people to worship the way you do? It would seem to me that it would contradict your faith. You worship as you see fit and let the rest of the world worship as they see fit. Sounds like relativism to me. Each to his own.

 

Mormon:

We are simply sharing a message of Jesus Christ. We are not dragging a font to their doors and shoving them in!! If people want to learn more we would love to tell them more, but if they don't they can simply decline. Seems like you are just searching to find fault no matter what the subject is.

 

SO...That is where the conversation is now. I am ready to just walk away. After all, any logical arguement I try to make now will just be me looking for faults in what she is saying. What I would like to ask her is, "If they simply decline then are they damned to hell for all eternity?" That doesn't sound like the nice, "Let them worship how where or what they may."

 

So what do you all think? Should I continue with this or just let it go? I am working on picking my battles. Is it worth it?

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Mormon:

We are simply sharing a message of Jesus Christ. We are not dragging a font to their doors and shoving them in!! If people want to learn more we would love to tell them more, but if they don't they can simply decline. Seems like you are just searching to find fault no matter what the subject is.

 

SO...That is where the conversation is now. I am ready to just walk away. After all, any logical arguement I try to make now will just be me looking for faults in what she is saying. What I would like to ask her is, "If they simply decline then are they damned to hell for all eternity?" That doesn't sound like the nice, "Let them worship how where or what they may."

 

So what do you all think? Should I continue with this or just let it go? I am working on picking my battles. Is it worth it?

 

I don't really know what the debate is for this topic, but I had a similar situation, with a Jew I met through Facebook. I asked her if they were expecting something big from God this year because of the astrology and all surrounding their feast days this year. She said, "As normal during the holidays".

 

In bold, I notice she has an opinion of it as well. But, according to the LDS, they take their missionaries status' very seriously, and consider the evangelism very seriously. People talk about Christianity being a cult, IMO LDS takes the cake for cult-like denominations.

 

Here are the qualifications from Wiki to be a missionary at LDS.

Those excluded include those who would have to leave dependent children in the care of someone else; young couples who are still in child-bearing age; those who are in debt and have not made arrangements to meet these obligations; those who are on legal probation or parole; couples with serious unresolved marital problems; those who are HIV positive; and those who have been convicted of sexual abuse.[6] Additionally, members who have submitted to, performed, encouraged, paid for, or arranged for an abortion are usually excluded from missionary service, as are members who have fathered or mothered a child out of wedlock; men under 26 and women under 40 who have been divorced; and anyone who has participated in "homosexual activity" after age 15.

 

Well, I'm out

[JPA]

I am sorry. I may have posted this in the wrong place. My debate was more with her than with anyone here. Perhaps it can be moved to a more fitting forum. But I am a little new here and am not sure how to go about doing that.

[par4dcourse]

Seems like you are just searching to find fault no matter what the subject is.

The writer has nothing but a book of fairy tales and a church-taught line of shit. When it falters, she attacks you. Classic xian tactics. If you don't believe the bs something must be wrong with you.

Find a good "bible is bs" site and quote a few examples. Probably won't do any good, but it's jolly good fun watching them squirm.

www.infidels.org is a good start, or pick some examples from this site.

 

 

[belladonna]

I am not sure how much you guys deal with Mormons, but I have been having an interesting conversation with one on Facebook. It started out as a thread about, "Does God exist" with a video about god not creating evil. Well the conversation turned into something else when I realized this person was a Mormon and not a typical Protestant. She quoted the Book of Mormon which threw me off for a second. Where do you find Nephi in the bible? Oh thats right you dont. Well here is the conversation as it went on.

 

Mormon:

quotes Book of Mormon "O that cunning plan of the evil one! O the vainness, and the frailties, and the foolishness of men! When they are learned they think they are wise, and they hearken not unto the counsel of God, for they set it aside, supposing they know of themselves, wherefore, their wisdom is foolishness and it profiteth them not. And they shall perish. But to be learned is good if they hearken unto the counsels of God.

 

I responded with:

I didnt realize you were LDS. Sounds a lot like Psalms 14:1 "The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good."

However, I disagree. Atheists do good things just like everyone else.

 

Mormon:

dont think, nor does the reference i sited imply that Atheist are bad people doing bad things. It just states that those who choose to lean on their own limited understanding and wisdom are only cheating themselves. It is a prideful arrogance that says we know all things, or must have proof in order to believe. I as a religious person, don't claim to know all things, but do profess a belief in a God that does know all things.

 

I responded:

But isn't it equally arrogant to state that you have the only "true" god and everyone else is wrong and condemned by your god if they dont believe the way you do. To be honest the exclusivity of Christianity is one of the reasons I left the church in the first place. I felt it was arrogant.

 

Mormon:

As one of our articles of Faith states..."We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God, according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how where or what they may."

 

I responded:

Well I must admit, I didn't know that about the LDS church. It is very good of them. However, it brings up a different problem. If the articles of your faith allow all men the privilege to worship any way they like then why do you go door to door trying to get people to worship the way you do? It would seem to me that it would contradict your faith. You worship as you see fit and let the rest of the world worship as they see fit. Sounds like relativism to me. Each to his own.

 

Mormon:

We are simply sharing a message of Jesus Christ. We are not dragging a font to their doors and shoving them in!! If people want to learn more we would love to tell them more, but if they don't they can simply decline. Seems like you are just searching to find fault no matter what the subject is.

 

SO...That is where the conversation is now. I am ready to just walk away. After all, any logical arguement I try to make now will just be me looking for faults in what she is saying. What I would like to ask her is, "If they simply decline then are they damned to hell for all eternity?" That doesn't sound like the nice, "Let them worship how where or what they may."

 

So what do you all think? Should I continue with this or just let it go? I am working on picking my battles. Is it worth it?

 

Honestly, you are better to let it go. I live in an area with a large LDS population, and the one thing I've learned is that arguing with them, while a lot of fun, is generally pointless. We are all fools going to hell, even those of another Christian faith; never mind their own Book of Mormon directly contradicts the teaching of the Book of Revelation.

[RiverDale]

I had some young "Elders" approach me. I actually found it more fun to simply ask them questions than to try to argue. They flat out told me the other religions were hell bound. I asked them about Islam, the idolitry of Catholics, Jews, you know, fun stuff. I thought as long as I held them, they were not bothering anyone else. I never revealed my beliefs(or lack thereof), just tried to make them think about their own. I wish I had known about the magic protective underwear the church sells 'tho.

[Antlerman]

SO...That is where the conversation is now. I am ready to just walk away. After all, any logical arguement I try to make now will just be me looking for faults in what she is saying. What I would like to ask her is, "If they simply decline then are they damned to hell for all eternity?" That doesn't sound like the nice, "Let them worship how where or what they may."

 

So what do you all think? Should I continue with this or just let it go? I am working on picking my battles. Is it worth it?

Mormons don't believe people who don't become Mormons end up in hell. That's against their theology. They believe in various levels of paradise, with the Celestial heaven being the highest, where God is. The worst human ends up in the Terrestrial kingdom, which is better than this earth is. Hell is reserved only for the Devil and those who had full awareness of the truth, as in the highest ascended order of the Mormon church, for instance, who then knowingly and willfully with eyes full open denied and rejected God to his face. In other words, next to no one.

 

If you choose to debate a Mormon, I would not do so on arguments that you would use against a typical Protestant apologist. To me, the interesting thing about Mormons is the origin of their religion, and the very Graphic Novel nature of the mythologies created. It's quite fascinating in many ways, if not very curious and strange. It's like a religion based on the fiction of Batman in many regards. Amazing phenomenon actually, but can't find myself relating to it on any personal level as meaningful.

 

It's like cartoon mythology for adults. God living on a planet Kolob near the star Betelgeuse in the constellation Orion, making little baby gods who go to earth to become like him when they grow up, to make worlds and little baby gods of their own. Jesus preaching to American Indians during his 40 days after his resurrection and before his ascension, who are somehow the lost 10 tribes of Israel, gold tablets, an ex-psychiatric patient being shown their location in upstate New York, finding the stones of the High Priests of Israel's vest which allow him to translate the scratches on the gold tablets into words by shining the English words on a wall while Brigham Young behind a curtain writes down the words as Joe reads them off the wall, and so on and so forth.

 

Like I said, it's like a cartoon made into a religion. Fascinating.

[Neon Genesis]

"We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God, according to the dictates of our own conscience and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how where or what they may."

So, why can't they leave the LGBT community alone and why do they go around baptizing dead Jews?

 

those who are HIV positive

What did people with HIV deserve to be excommunicated? What if you were born with HIV? Are they already excommunicated at birth for something they had no control over? At least they can't get wrapped up in this cult but that's just pure bigotry to me.