★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 Well, I don't usually get into comment debates on YouTube, but now I have. I was watching this video by ex-christian Lovingdoubt when I noticed a comment about her from a Christian user going by eflint1, which I had to reply to. My YouTube user name is dtrylz (which stands for Dream Theater, Rush, Yes and Led Zeppelin, if you're interested). I don't normally like to be so blunt right off the bat, but anyway, here is how the conversation has gone so far: eflint1: No offense, but if you had ever REALLY known the Lord and had him living inside of you, there is no way you could deny Him now. This would be true if you were Assemblies of god, UPC or whatever. I'm not trying to be unkind, but you never really knew Him. dtrylz: Sorry, eflint1, but you're deluded. I used to be deluded just like you, thinking anyone who rejects Jesus could never have known him. Now I realize that that is about as rational as saying that anyone who rejects Santa Claus could never have really known him. Maybe someday you'll wake up and smell reality, but for now you're blinded by religious brainwashing.... eflint1: You are making an apples and oranges comparrison. Santa Claus didn't free me from the bondage of sin and make me a new person. Jesus did. Santa never filled me with the Holy Spirit. Jesus did. Santa never answered a prayer. Jesus did. I've had too many miraculous things happen in my life for you to come along and tell me they DIDN'T happen. Let me share a testimony. One day on a city street I felt god lead me to go talk to a total stranger. Before I could stop myself, i looked at this young man and said, "You are a pastor's son who has rebelled against what you've been taught. God sent me to talk to you." This guy's eyes almost popped out of his head, BECAUSE I HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! Now, please give me your "scientific" explanation for how I suddenly knew about this guy's life when I had never seen him before. dtrylz: You know, eflint1, I do feel sorry for you. You're so brainwashed and yet you don't even know it. Just like I didn't realize it for a long time myself when I was a believer. Your personal experiences? A LOT of people have personal experiences that their minds contrive to mean what they want them to mean. The reality is that the Bible & Christianity are full of inconsistencies, nonsense, etc. Maybe someday you'll see through the religious bs. Hopefully. Good luck.... eflint1: Typical hard hearted atheist. I just asked you to give me a scientific explanation to a real experience that I had, and you could not. Why? Because you DO have a religion. To acknowledge the experience I had might cause you to doubt your non-deity. Therefore, you just ignore it. Yes, RELIGION is BS, God is not. dtrylz: Typical Christian nonsense, eflint1. For your information, I am NOT an atheist & I am NOT hard hearted. I just care about TRUTH. If you're so in with your biblegod who tells you things, WHY did you get me TOTALLY WRONG??? Your claim of one specific incident is just a matter of a HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE personal experience. It may have been coincidental, you may be lying, you may have had many other occasions where you were completely wrong & 1 instance you just happened to be right. How could I know? Instead of you expecting me to explain exactly what happened in your SUBJECTIVE experience, YOU need to EXPLAIN some things about your biblegod. First, Exodus 20 gives the Ten Commandments. After Moses breaks the tablets, Exodus 34 has GOD HIMSELF write what is claimed to be the SAME Ten Commandments, yet the list is DRASTICALLY DIFFERENT. Explain how biblegod screwed that up. Second, Luke's nativity has Jesus taken to Jerusalem a few days after his birth, and from there go immediately to Nazareth. Matthew's nativity has Jesus' family stay in a house in Bethlehem for a while, then move the Egypt, and ONLY THEN move to Nazareth. Explain how biblegod screwed that up. Third, Luke and John's resurrection account have Jesus' first appearance to the group of disciples take place in a ROOM in JERUSALEM. Matthew has it take place on a MOUNTAIN in GALILEE. Explain how biblegod screwed that up. Fourth, why was it wrong for the Egyptians to have Israelites as slaves but OK for ISRAELITES to make SLAVES of the others? God granted them permission for slavery in Lev 25:1-2 and Deut 20:10-11, and even allowed beating them in Ex 21:20-21. Explain to me how your biblegod is righteous and just. Fifth, why would your biblegod command the KILLING of CHILDREN and INFANTS, such as in 1 Sam 15:2-3? And why would he inspire a psalmist to write about happily DASHING INFANTS AGAINST ROCKS in Ps 137:8-9? Explain to me how your biblegod is righteous and just. Sixth, the Gospel writers made claims of Jesus fulfilling OT prophecies, yet time and time again they take OT texts OUT OF CONTEXT in order to FABRICATE prophetic fulfillments, sometimes even REWORDING the OT texts to suit their purposes. Explain to me how biblegod screwd that up. So, you see, eflint1, YOU have a LOT of explaining to do about CONCRETE things in the BIBLE before ANYONE has to try to explain your HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE EXPERIENCE! You have your work cut out for you. Good luck, you're going to need it. eflint1: Typical cop-out. "You have to answer my question first" That's not even good manners. There is plenty of good material on everything you asked. You don't think I've asked the same questions? You think i just blindly follow the Bible with no question or investigation? If you are truly objective, then hear the other side. Investigate why God allowed certain "bad" things to happen in certain cases. It's all there. Examine whether or not the gospels contradict, Furthermore, where do the writers of the gospels ever claim to be writing an exhaustive narrative on the resurrection accounts? That's all side issues. But you have asked fair questions and over the next few days we'll deal with each one as time permits. Fair enough? dtrylz: eflint1, you ASSUME that I've never looked into "the other side." HA! I was ON your side for 29 years! I've studied the Bible and apologetics more than most Christians have. So don't give me this BS about looking at the other side, because I ONLY LISTENED to the Christian side for MOST OF MY LIFE! It was incredibly difficult to break free from such brainwashing PRECISELY BECAUSE of never listening to ANYTHING BUT the Christian side. So if either of us needs to consider another side, it ain't me. Secondly, eflint1, I did NOT cop-out, I simply pointed to OBJECTIVE things rather than the flimsy SUBJECTIVE things you want to argue about. But think about this: You DISREGARD Lovingdoubt's past experience as a Christian. You DISREGARD my past experience as a Christian. Yet you expect US to ACCEPT YOUR experience as a Christian?! Come on, now, surely you're not too blind to see how RIDICULOUS that is! Open your eyes a little and think for yourself rather than swallowing religious dogma. Also, it doesn't matter whether or not the gospel writers were writing "exhaustive narratives." Exhaustive or not, they contradict each other, so they can't be the perfect, inerrant word of God. Plain and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astreja Posted October 11, 2009 Share Posted October 11, 2009 But think about this: You DISREGARD Lovingdoubt's past experience as a Christian. You DISREGARD my past experience as a Christian. Yet you expect US to ACCEPT YOUR experience as a Christian?! Come on, now, surely you're not too blind to see how RIDICULOUS that is! Citsonga, this passage is pure gold... The sheer hypocrisy of a believer dismissing others' experiences as fake, while expecting his/her own experiences to be accepted as the proverbial Gospel Truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 But think about this: You DISREGARD Lovingdoubt's past experience as a Christian. You DISREGARD my past experience as a Christian. Yet you expect US to ACCEPT YOUR experience as a Christian?! Come on, now, surely you're not too blind to see how RIDICULOUS that is! Citsonga, this passage is pure gold... The sheer hypocrisy of a believer dismissing others' experiences as fake, while expecting his/her own experiences to be accepted as the proverbial Gospel Truth. Thanks. When I thought of that, I wished I had thought of it right off the bat and made it my first argument, but unfortunately I wasn't that quick. Shamefully, I must admit that I used to be that deluded too. I didn't believe that there was any such thing as an "ex-christian," so I had to force things into that worldview. Damn, it sure is amazing how twisted a brainwashed mind can be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
★ Citsonga ★ Posted October 11, 2009 Author Share Posted October 11, 2009 Oops! I accidentally left out one of eflint1's paragraphs. I edited the first post to add it in. This is that paragraph: Let me share a testimony. One day on a city street I felt god lead me to go talk to a total stranger. Before I could stop myself, i looked at this young man and said, "You are a pastor's son who has rebelled against what you've been taught. God sent me to talk to you." This guy's eyes almost popped out of his head, BECAUSE I HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD! Now, please give me your "scientific" explanation for how I suddenly knew about this guy's life when I had never seen him before. Without that paragraph, some of our later comments wouldn't have made sense. Sorry about the flub-up, but it was caused by the way YouTube lines up posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts