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Continued Debate Of Boy Dressing As Female From News Section


Abiyoyo
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Started a new thread because we aren't allowed to get into heated debates on News section, and I keep getting questioned of my response to the boy that dresses with female clothes. So, Neon, your the lucky start for this thread. Basically Neon, this is starting my response to your post, and then on to any other people that want to vent this subject out in the appropriate thread. Enjoy!

 

 

 

Get over it, it's just a kid wanting attention.

Wasn't this the same argument sexist men used against women wearing pants, that the women just want attention and they should be put back in their place where we can't hear them?

 

So, a kid can express themselves wearing female clothing in a public high school, but my brother in law is not allowed to have a tattoo expressing himself? That is biased and hypocritical.

Because you have to be a certain legal age to get a tattoo but you don't have to be to dress like the opposite sex? You're comparing apples to oranges here. Should we go back to forbidding women from wearing pants because obviously women are just wanting attention? I mean, how dare women express themselves by dressing equally to men!

 

Ask anyone on the boards, I am quite liberal, and don't speak against homosexual rights at all. This though is different, it is a minor, in a public school, going against the grain, surrounded by God knows what.
No, you are not . That is most certainly a lie and you know it. You've made posts before where you compared the gay rights movement to incest to argue against gay marriage, so you'd better retract that lie: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/29867-why-gay/page__st__20 Post number 18 on page 2
Did you know there is a movement that wants to legalize adult incest, making it legal to marry within family at an adult age? Dad could marry adult daughter. Mom could marry adult son, etc.

 

Anyhow, like you said, people should be allowed to just be themselves, right?

These are your words, so don't you dare lie and pretend you were always liberal on these boards and never ever argued against gay rights where here's proof right here in your face that you are against gay rights.

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Because you have to be a certain legal age to get a tattoo but you don't have to be to dress like the opposite sex? You're comparing apples to oranges here. Should we go back to forbidding women from wearing pants because obviously women are just wanting attention? I mean, how dare women express themselves by dressing equally to men!

 

Why is a tattoo illegal for a minor? because it is permanent, right? A school would tell a minor to take off a non-permanent tattoo if it was signifying a real tattoo, what is the difference between that and the boy. A fake tattoo is not illegal. As far as the ridiculous comment of a woman's civil rights, that has nothing to do with this boy, but in a way, has everything to do with this boy.

 

Society changes Neon, that is a fact of life. You know this to be true, so why try to twist this up into a point that doesn't make any sense. Women were suppressed at one time, but that began to change in society, as a majority, not a minority. Very different situations. Cross dressing is not a majority within society, it is a minority.

No, you are not . That is most certainly a lie and you know it. You've made posts before where you compared the gay rights movement to incest to argue against gay marriage, so you'd better retract that lie: http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/29867-why-gay/page__st__20 Post number 18 on page 2

Did you know there is a movement that wants to legalize adult incest, making it legal to marry within family at an adult age? Dad could marry adult daughter. Mom could marry adult son, etc.

 

 

 

Anyhow, like you said, people should be allowed to just be themselves, right? These are your words, so don't you dare lie and pretend you were always liberal on these boards and never ever argued against gay rights where here's proof right here in your face that you are against gay rights.

 

Yes, I do remember that. Wow, one thread. Did you bother to search for any of the topics where I basically said that I have no problems with the gay rights?

Here are the rest of my responses that Neon kindly neglected to post.

 

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/29867-why-gay/page__view__findpost__p__447762

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/29867-why-gay/page__view__findpost__p__448269

http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?/topic/29867-why-gay/page__view__findpost__p__448274

 

I will even put an clip here for you from this last one.

Honestly, I commend the gay lifestyle more so than incest relationship.

 

Funny. That turned out differently than you implied it should be Neon. The Op of that thread was gay relations didn't make evolutionary sense to him. I simply put out there that there are some that want to make incest relations legal. Then at the end, I said that I COMMEND the gay lifestyle more than I would the incest legalized lifestyle. The incest thing to me is just overboard, and quite sick.

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Why is a tattoo illegal for a minor? because it is permanent, right?

Just as circumcision. It should be illegal too.

 

Society changes Neon, that is a fact of life. You know this to be true, so why try to twist this up into a point that doesn't make any sense. Women were suppressed at one time, but that began to change in society, as a majority, not a minority. Very different situations. Cross dressing is not a majority within society, it is a minority.

You're right, it does change. The values and the mores changes throughout the history of culture. I'm not sure however, if it's because of majority in all cases. Sometimes it's a matter of minorities with influence enough to force a change. Sometimes it's reason, and people get persuaded through the rational thoughts. Sometimes it's through emotional strength, Church, politicians, media, etc, changes peoples ideas through information and indoctrination. And sometimes it's a slow change through new laws (the court altered its view, and slowly it changes culture as well).

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Just as circumcision. It should be illegal too.

 

 

 

Should we have school lawyers Hans? Lawyers that specialize in school ordinances? Defending those that are 'sentenced' by the principals?

 

I see it coming. School is the next area that will be zoned for indifference and civil right activists regarding these type circumstances. African Americans were not allowed in white schools at one time. Followed by a dynamic change in the majority, by the minority, the outcome became evident of civil liberty to the African American, and rightly so.

 

I do agree with Ameen on this, but didn't get a chance to voice the agreement in that it is a complicated situation, one that probably isn't comparable to any other. We can try to compare one to another, woman's rights, African Americans rights, etc to this situation, but they are not the same.

 

Am I bad person if my son wanted to express himself by wearing female clothes, no matter what the sexual status may be, and I told him he couldn't? Because I would tell my male child that he can't wear female clothes, to express himself, until he is out of school, a legal adult. I wouldn't even say he has to move out, or depart from the family; but I would enforce those regulations for his own sake.

 

The world is a cruel place, and cross dressers, homosexuals are apart of hate crimes everyday, in the adult world. This matter isn't about self expression, it is about protecting a child in an area that is still considered 'the deep south'.

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If the main observation about this guy is that he’s a minor, then doesn’t this in part imply that his parents have some measure of responsibility for him? If so, were they approached and told of the consequences of his behavior (his chosen dress code)?

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If the main observation about this guy is that he’s a minor, then doesn’t this in part imply that his parents have some measure of responsibility for him? If so, were they approached and told of the consequences of his behavior (his chosen dress code)?

 

From what I understood about it is that the school just pointed out that his safety was the concern, and that there had already been some altercations because of his dressing. I can't say if they spoke to the parents about it, but I assume they did. I do know that the disagreement is that a school official told the boy he should wear male clothing.

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Sorry Burned, but here we part ways. I might be willing to discuss options to improve the public school system, even vouchers, but not scrapping the public school system altogether.

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I know a simple solution....abolish the public school system. Because it is paid for with taxpayer money, it either has to be all things to all people, or nothing to anyone and instead it ends up being a complete clusterfuck and nobody is happy. If every school were private or you homeschooled, you could do things completely as you wish.

 

Good point, but I wonder if that would decrease the literacy of America. I know for my family, we could not afford private schools for our kids.

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I can't say if they spoke to the parents about it, but I assume they did.

Can we safely assume that? It seems an important thing to me.

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Sorry Burned, but here we part ways. I might be willing to discuss options to improve the public school system, even vouchers, but not scrapping the public school system altogether.

 

I just don't see how that would improve the education in America. (I am trying to figure out if BO's post had a little sarcasm to it)

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I just don't see how that would improve the education in America.

Me either Abiyoyo. I look at education as if it were vital infrastructure. I have not the slightest problem with the idea that tax money supports it.

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I have to agree with the schools actions.

 

The school's mission is to impart some knowledge to it's students and not to protect free expression. Some times two goods can be in conflict, and one must be chosen over the other. The students are children and children are not yet mature enough to act properly towards someone who is definitely pushing their buttons.

 

I'm sorry but kids are a mob of bastards in groups of more than 2. If we insist that the government gather them up and stuff 35 of them into little rooms doing shit the bores the hell out of most of them, they are going to find enough distractions themselves. It isn't very bright to hand them a distraction on a silver platter.

 

Children didn't evolve to be raised in stock yards. If you are going to raise them in such a place you have to repress the natural behavior.

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Why is a tattoo illegal for a minor? because it is permanent, right? A school would tell a minor to take off a non-permanent tattoo if it was signifying a real tattoo, what is the difference between that and the boy. A fake tattoo is not illegal. As far as the ridiculous comment of a woman's civil rights, that has nothing to do with this boy, but in a way, has everything to do with this boy.

So, if you agree with Ameen, then why did you bring up this separate case as if you sided with the school? Why make a comparison of something when you don't agree with the school decision?

 

 

Society changes Neon, that is a fact of life. You know this to be true, so why try to twist this up into a point that doesn't make any sense. Women were suppressed at one time, but that began to change in society, as a majority, not a minority. Very different situations. Cross dressing is not a majority within society, it is a minority.

So, since women who used to be a minority got treated equally because they changed society, the minority of crossdressers are not supposed to try and change society because they're a minority? In other words, you think we should go back to when women couldn't wear pants because how dare minorities try to change society?

 

Yes, I do remember that. Wow, one thread. Did you bother to search for any of the topics where I basically said that I have no problems with the gay rights?

Here are the rest of my responses that Neon kindly neglected to post.

What about that other thread with the UN supporting the Islam blasphemy law where you kept bringing up the supposed hypocrisy of Obama supposedly supporting it (even though it was pointed out repeatedly he didn't) and why he supported blasphemy (even though he didn't) but supported gay rights, as if you were against it?

 

 

Funny. That turned out differently than you implied it should be Neon. The Op of that thread was gay relations didn't make evolutionary sense to him. I simply put out there that there are some that want to make incest relations legal. Then at the end, I said that I COMMEND the gay lifestyle more than I would the incest legalized lifestyle. The incest thing to me is just overboard, and quite sick.

So in other words, you think they're both similar but only like the gay lifestyle slightly more than the incestuous lifestyle but still think it's a valid comparison? And if you weren't trying to compare homosexuality to incest to argue against gay rights, why did you say in that thread the comparison was relevant over something you didn't really support after all? You just make no sense to me that you argue repeatedly in that thread that homosexuality and incest are the same thing while at the same time thinking incest is only slightly more gross than homosexuality and as long as you use the "I have black friends too" card, this is not supposed to make you a homophobe? And are you basically saying your wife's sexuality is like incest? Does she know you think this about her?
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I personally see no reason why incest should be outlawed. But then again... I'm from East Tennessee.

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Did we just agree Chef :grin: Shoo, I won't tell if you don't.

 

I'm sorry but kids are a mob of bastards in groups of more than 2. If we insist that the government gather them up and stuff 35 of them into little rooms doing shit the bores the hell out of most of them, they are going to find enough distractions themselves.

 

 

:lmao:

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Does she know you think this about her?

 

You think to much Neon. You asked me 7 questions,7! in that last post :grin:

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I will simply talk about my experiences with fafa'ines during high school.

Fafa'ine means certain Samoan boys who are raised as girls.

It's not a westernised conception of gender identity (western being transgender, cross dressing, queer, hemophroditism, cisexual, gender bending, androgyne and tendentiously enough - drag queens and etc.) and it is a cultural thing.

 

I live in New Zealand where such people also exist, they are allowed to freely exist. There are ignorance but not much overt phobia towards fafas. A misconception about fafa'ines is that they are thought of as "gay". When I involuntarily came out at 16, ignorant people said I should be a fafa because "they're that way too."

Another common misconception that they are just faking it or brainwashed.

A few boys who hated being girls might be out there but in my own experience, they are sincerely unable to change and freely embraced their prescribed identity (both cultural and gender)

It would be as useless to change these people as would if you tried to fit an elephant through a keyhole! :phew:

 

Anyway, in my personal version of one of the New Zealand secondary school reactions towards this specific group of human gender identity, my classes in school with these lovely people being Art History, Classics and English.

The uniform rules at my old school are strict now and it was then too. It was also an all boys school. Despite all that, they were allowed to put on whatever feminine object or whatever makeup they fancied as long as it didn't clash with their basic uniforms. They didn't have to sue the school board or go to the court unlike their American and British counterparts - they just showed up with these get ups and they didn't get any official/parental flack for it.

My classes weren't full of distractions because my school have had to either accept or tolerate them a long time ago.

Oh sure, a few louts taunted them for their clothing/make up but they held their heads aloft with incontestable dignity and class.

Oh, I wish I could've said the same about myself but then, I had a tough time with the residuals of Christianity! (a few of them being a vague anxiety, homophobia both external and internal as well hell/original sin/TULIP v.s Arminian/etc.) But I'm getting there, though. :)

 

The point is, what's wrong with being yourself or belonging to a community of your orientation of your free choice?

This boy has as much right as our fafas have for to turn up in school being himself and creating an identity!

Isn't that what adolescence is for? To form your future identity through trials and errors? :scratch:

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