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Has Anyone Discovered The Truth Or A Truth?


Gandolph
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Has anyone disovered another "way" that works for them. I mean aside from now perhaps finding that there is no god, or no evil god. Have you found something where you go "wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!" No I don't have that answer, and am not about to pitch something that I have found yadda, yadda. I do think this is important, because many of us, although maybe we should, have not given up on finding that magic answer, as it were.

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Has anyone disovered another "way" that works for them. I mean aside from now perhaps finding that there is no god, or no evil god. Have you found something where you go "wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!"

 

 

Well, yes. To put it in a cliche that I've heard in Unitarian Universalism: "The answer is to question."

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I get pretty nervous when someone starts talking about "The Truth." It makes me think they are getting ready to sell me Amway or talk to me about Raeliens. I think Woody Allen came the closest to addressing this concept in a reasonable manner with the phrase Whatever Works

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A "Truth" that I have found is that attempting to Become God through religion never works if one is pursuing it as an end result, but I think a parallel path where one views deep emotional fulfillment as a balance needed in conjunction with Science, is healthy indeed as long as it doesn't impair one's ability to function in Society on a Psychiatric level. In lieu of this I will say that Science is only here to chip away slowly at that vast store of knowledge that is out there for the taking. In Truth, I would be scared if any one of us or the Human Race actually became God. Indeed, attempting to finish that process has cost many human lives via Religion and it's various Causes to make the world a better place... One can attempt to become a sort of virtuous God through Science (omniscient, omnibenevolent, omnipresent, omnipotent) but that is unrealistic as well because Science is a process of gaining Knowledge that takes a humble posture towards the Infinite within the Universe (ours or Calabri-Yau space). If Humanity or any one of us is God then Science would end, and I don't know many people that want Science to end, indeed there are none. But the point is that most people can't realize that becoming God means slowing Science's Progress. Science can only continue as long as accurate and precise Knowledge is to be had, and if there truly where a God then there would probably be little point to Science....

 

As St. Athanasius said "God became man so that Man might become God". However, this is incorrect within a Religious context, and Science is the correct path in that regards because it actually works in a way that people can benefit from without being so hurt by it as was and still is (although less so) the case with Religion. For instance, it's true that if Jesus wanted Christians to move a Mountain through faith then they could do so; and in the past they would get out their shovels and proceed to do so if they felt they must. But Science is an impartial actor, so if you are a demolitions engineer then you can move the mountain with Dynamite. The question then becomes, is there more suffering to be had in the Industrialization required to make the Dynamite or is there less suffering? Or if there is less suffering is the quality of that suffering far greater than if God where to command it to be moved as was the general take during Medieval times? Or if there is more suffering, is the quality of that suffering far less than that same time period? I think the answer is that Science has proven itself since the start of the Modern Era to progressively enable the creation of far more compassionate systems of Religion, and this system of Science is neutral and impartial towards any given Religion; it just asks through it's various representatives (Scientists), many of whom are themselves religious or spiritual, that it be allowed to do it's own thing. So if you want to move mountains on God's behalf nowadays you can use Dynamite, but Scientists will be busy in the background working to give you something better to use in the future that's more efficient for you. The same goes for every other technology.

 

 

The Truth is, that if there are any Ultimate truths to be had then Science ends-Isaac Newton himself ran into this. So I say it's best for Humanity to continue to allow Science to uncover more and more; and the better picture we get as the Ages go by, the better quality our Spirituality can be-whether Natural or Supernatural. Negative moral evaluations gradually recede as Science advances.

 

So to sum up:

The Truth is, that if there is an Ultimate Magic Answer then the Answers stop altogether. The Truth is also that if Science itself is the Ultimate Answer, then subtlety stops altogether in one sense and there is a God. That's the best I have come up with so far in my own life's journey.

 

 

Hopefully that answers your question.

 

 

P.S.

It may be the case however, that the more we understand reality through Science the less Reality can assert itself by limiting us. If this is the case then St. Athanasius was correct but the method he was using was incorrect. This is a possibility, although I am not sure of this. There are times (some days) when I think this is the case, honestly, and as you can see this is not one of those days for me.

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"wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!"

 

 

Of course, on second thought I will also reply that if this is what your looking for then look no further and choose a Scientific Discipline; the shit works. This reply is concrete and concise whereas the first one was more in depth. Please do not equate the two however, as they are different ways of looking at the same question.

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Guest I Love Dog

Has anyone disovered another "way" that works for them. I mean aside from now perhaps finding that there is no god, or no evil god. Have you found something where you go "wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!" No I don't have that answer, and am not about to pitch something that I have found yadda, yadda. I do think this is important, because many of us, although maybe we should, have not given up on finding that magic answer, as it were.

 

 

Two places worked for me:

 

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com

 

http://www.evilbible.com

 

Hope you find something of interest in these places, some revelations, some truths.

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Has anyone disovered another "way" that works for them. I mean aside from now perhaps finding that there is no god, or no evil god. Have you found something where you go "wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!"

Yes, in a sense I think I have. But if you ask me to explain it, it might take a long time and it might be unsuccessful, because it's more about a revelation experienced than a revelation taught.

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I'm pretty much forming my own "truth" but no, I never found anything in any man-made religion type situation.

 

I've dabbled in Buddhism, and explored a few other religions, and although there are principles and aspects that I have taken from them, I don't subscribe to a doctrine of any kind. Since I don't believe in a super natural being (don't deny one may exist, but don't believe there is one, either) most religions go against that basic truth.

 

So, no never found "the truth" other than to ditto what Han Solo said - it really is more about the experience than something taught, and that's pretty much become my approach.

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The absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth.

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The absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth.

 

I would say that the truth is that there is no absolute truth. Like Huxley said, to paraphrase: "The only thing I am certain of is that I am uncertain of a great many things".

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Has anyone disovered another "way" that works for them. I mean aside from now perhaps finding that there is no god, or no evil god. Have you found something where you go "wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!" No I don't have that answer, and am not about to pitch something that I have found yadda, yadda. I do think this is important, because many of us, although maybe we should, have not given up on finding that magic answer, as it were.

 

While I haven't had that sort of epiphany (the "oh wow this really works!") I've instead adopted as rational and scientific worldview as possible and it is working for me. There are so many answers in all fields of science to questions that many religions don't even ask, and while these answers aren't nearly as spiritual as most religious processes, it definitely gives you an expanded view of the universe as a whole (not to mention it is quite a bit cooler from my nerdy point of view). For instance, I've spent many hours reading up on physical cosmology and not only is it so much more interesting than say the 'cosmology' presented in Genesis, but it allows you to take what you know about physical principles and at the very least brainstorm about areas not yet explored by modern science (the required math would a different story). At least for me, the pursuit of knowledge by learning as much as I can is more than enough to keep me occupied and in my opinion gives a 'meaning' of sorts that would otherwise be occupied by religious thought. To give an example of the perspective we now have, the existence of black holes and neutron stars would be completely unknown to humans more than a few hundred years ago. While the heliocentric model of the solar system has at least been theorized in ancient societies, the concept of other galaxies being millions of light years away from our own wasn't formally recognized until the early 20th century (although Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi did spot the Andromeda and LMC galaxies and classified them as 'clouds' in the 10th century). The vast scale of intergalactic distances is more than enough to leave me mesmerized when I look up into a starry sky at night. To know that we are nothing but a pale blue dot somewhere in a homogeneous, isotropic universe is quite humbling.

 

This, coupled with the knowledge of human evolution allows us to view our own species in context with the world we live in (I'd like to re-iterate to those who are unfamiliar that evolution does not state that life evolves by 'chance', to say so would be essentially equivalent to saying that life was created by a god... instead it proceeds by selective environmental pressures which do have rational explanations (e.g. not by chance)). Like any scientific branch the use of reason and observation is what validates evolution, not belief. Ranting aside, the knowledge that we are a sentient species (which doesn't imply that there aren't others on Earth, or possibly elsewhere) makes us no different than any other species allows us to prevent being overly anthropocentric in our thinking.

 

The ability to think with new perspectives can be a powerful way to question your current worldview, given knowledge currently available, and possibly make changes to it should new knowledge arrive. Not to mention it is so much more satisfying to find these things out on your own as well. Its kind of like forming incremental amounts of 'truth' over a lifetime. Even though it is impossible for us to know everything about everything, learning new things is still a fascinating process for me. While we each try to find our own meanings/truths in life, I will agree with previous postings that it is not an exact process... it would rather be more feasible to approximate meanings of life and stick on some error bars and hopefully try to drive the uncertainty down as much as possible (within reason). Just as in a numerical methods course, keep iterating and hopefully you're within the radius of convergence and hopefully you'll converge on a solution (hehe, if only it were that simple).

 

Personally, I feel like I am discovering more 'truth' every day as a rational minded person than I ever have as a christian (those few years were stagnant in comparison), and I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels this way.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I wonder if I could find the truth? Or a truth?

 

I think the only way to find a truth, is to find a pattern in the development of humanity. I myself would be arrogant to think I alone, in my strive for truth, can somehow find it. How many people have strove for what I now strive and have either claimed to found something, or found nothing? So many names and marvelous people come to mind.

 

So I look for patterns, again, and try to make a picture out of it. Maybe not be a truth, or the truth, but it is a way to at least find the path to truth. What kind of progression is being made, has there been any degression? Or is it all just a sort of evolution of sorts?

 

It's hard to not be arrogant though. To not think of myself as a long ranger fighting against the dark of night, when really, we're all in this together as a race. Trying to find truth. I don't think an individual can find it, if there is a singular "truth," but hopefully humanity can find it one day and we can help them/us get there.

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"Truth" should always be seen as a goal to which we should always aspire and remain wary of those who claim to have acheived it.

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www.yoism.org is a good place to start.

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www.yoism.org is a good place to start.

 

What an interesting website!

 

I like the quote by Sagan: "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." There is a very similar idea in some Pagan faiths, and I bet there are some other naturalistic spiritualities with similar ideas out there as well.

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"Truth" should always be seen as a goal to which we should always aspire and remain wary of those who claim to have acheived it.

 

Quoted for Truth.

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I'm not completely ready to be an atheist, but I'm finding that believing in any god is a lot of work with nothing to show for it. I know I sound silly, but I'd honestly like to have a real faith or religion. I'd like to have a "spiritual" experience. I want something that delivers!

 

I've dabbled in Wicca and Asatru specifically because so many people claim to have these *real* experiences with their gods, but I get nothing.

 

I guess I was hoping that it was just Christianity that was false, and a true god could be found elsewhere. I'm getting more and more disenchanted as the days go by.

I don't know the most efficient way to determine if there are gods or not, but I would start with religions you don't think are true to see why you don't think they are true.

 

When you find a meme religion that seems appealing, you can examine it for signs of clear "falsehood" before accepting its rules.

 

After being fooled once, I decided pretty much that any god(s) had better have enoughr reality to explain to me personally that they do exist. So far, none has done so.

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  • Super Moderator

What I've discovered is that anyone claiming to have the Truth does not. I've learned that "spirituality" in any guise is often merely an ego trip. I also found out that it is a complete waste of effort to argue with someone who is able to dismiss verifiable facts in favor of their beliefs.

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I'm not completely ready to be an atheist, but I'm finding that believing in any god is a lot of work with nothing to show for it. I know I sound silly, but I'd honestly like to have a real faith or religion. I'd like to have a "spiritual" experience. I want something that delivers!

 

I've dabbled in Wicca and Asatru specifically because so many people claim to have these *real* experiences with their gods, but I get nothing.

 

I guess I was hoping that it was just Christianity that was false, and a true god could be found elsewhere. I'm getting more and more disenchanted as the days go by.

 

This is actually a really difficult problem to tackle. Both back when I was a Christian and since I've been Pagan, I've had spiritual experiences that were more like feelings. It often felt good (but not always) and it seemed to justify my involvement, but when you think about it, it's not much to go on and easily explained away by psychology.

 

Reports of others' experiences were sometimes much more grand, and it's easy to envy that, but the problem then becomes, what if they were hallucinating? And honestly it's pretty easy to wonder that when I hear some descriptions.

 

Nobody wants to think they are hallucinating when they themselves have an experience like this, though. A few years or so into Paganism I did have one that was profound and conveyed to me information that helped change my life (though that change wasn't instantaneous by any means). Was it real, or was I hallucinating? I'd like to think I wasn't, but I can't prove it.

 

Also, there have been times as a Pagan when I do feel nothing in response. And there was even one period where I went through something like a dark night of the soul and couldn't bring myself to do any rituals the way I had done prior to a particular incident. (I even blogged about that and will send you the link privately if you want to read it.) What I found, though, is that there are more reasons why I'm Pagan than these experiences. As a result of being involved, I've noted changes in my thinking and orientation to the world which to me have been instructive and meaningful but do not involve direct experiences of the Gods.

 

I can sure understand the desire to have some kind of personal confirmation that you are on the right spiritual path. I am wondering what other criteria you might find useful to evaluate this if a spiritual experience does not occur.

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Guest Hocking

I used to be an atheist.

 

 

 

Until I realized I am God.

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an aside: Truth doesn't require faith. Truth stands on its own merits.

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The absolute truth is that there is no absolute truth.

 

AHEM!!!!!

 

As a mathematician, I resent that paradoxical claim!

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Have you found something where you go "wow, this is what I have been looking for, and it really works!"

Sex.

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What I've discovered is that anyone claiming to have the Truth does not.

But that's not the truth, is it? ;)

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As a mathematician, I resent that paradoxical claim!

As a mathematician, you should be used to paradoxes by now. :HaHa:

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  • Super Moderator

What I've discovered is that anyone claiming to have the Truth does not.

But that's not the truth, is it? ;)

Yes, it's the truth. It isn't the Truth. Don't make me channel Antlerman.

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