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Jesus The False Prophet


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Mark 13:1-2

As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!" "Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

 

Ummm... As one who has visited the site of the old Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, I can tell you that there are stones from the temple mount structure that are dated to King Herod (existed in the temple at the time of Jesus) that are still in their original position. They were not thrown down. Hence Jesus made a false prophecy.

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Yeah well, he kinda flubbed that whole, "... there are some standing here who will not taste death before..." thing too. ;)

 

I haven't been there, but as I read through that again, the first thing I thought of was all the pictures of the "Wailing Wall" that I'd seen.

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Mark 13:1-2

As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!" "Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

 

Ummm... As one who has visited the site of the old Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, I can tell you that there are stones from the temple mount structure that are dated to King Herod (existed in the temple at the time of Jesus) that are still in their original position. They were not thrown down. Hence Jesus made a false prophecy.

 

I read somewhere about this, and some have suggested that the Hebrew language basically meant destroyed, and it was some type of hyperbole. Then, I read another that said that the Wailing Wall was the only fragment left, and it was a structure by Herold, and not actually apart of the Jewish structure that had been rebuilt, more of the beginning of the building of a surrounding wall.

 

Another was that there is only one stone that dates to Herold, and it also was from the wall. I guess if you include Herold's wall to separate the temple from the Gentiles, then it would seem to not have come to pass. But also consider that these Gospels where written after the destruction of the Temple, and Jesus possibly could have never have said that. I tend to want to think he did and all, but technically, there is no way to really know. :shrug:

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Another was that there is only one stone that dates to Herold, and it also was from the wall.

 

Ummm.. This is not true. There are hundreds of Herodian stones (extremely huge stones) still intact and in place, the majority of which are below the current street level (the street level in 70CE is actually below the current street level). I have been to both the wailing wall and to the 70CE street level. Unless current archeology finds new evidence to the contrary, there are quite a few Herodian stones still left standing.

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Mark 13:1-2

As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!" "Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

 

Ummm... As one who has visited the site of the old Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, I can tell you that there are stones from the temple mount structure that are dated to King Herod (existed in the temple at the time of Jesus) that are still in their original position. They were not thrown down. Hence Jesus made a false prophecy.

 

I read somewhere about this, and some have suggested that the Hebrew language basically meant destroyed, and it was some type of hyperbole. Then, I read another that said that the Wailing Wall was the only fragment left, and it was a structure by Herold, and not actually apart of the Jewish structure that had been rebuilt, more of the beginning of the building of a surrounding wall.

 

Another was that there is only one stone that dates to Herold, and it also was from the wall. I guess if you include Herold's wall to separate the temple from the Gentiles, then it would seem to not have come to pass. But also consider that these Gospels where written after the destruction of the Temple, and Jesus possibly could have never have said that. I tend to want to think he did and all, but technically, there is no way to really know. :shrug:

 

 

Well, yeah. That's technically true of the majority of the bible.

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Another was that there is only one stone that dates to Herold, and it also was from the wall.

Ummm.. This is not true.

Ummmm...It IS true. Herold only placed one stone. He was inept.

 

King Herod, on the other hand, was an amazing builder and there is considerable evidence for those structures even today.

 

mwc

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Another was that there is only one stone that dates to Herold, and it also was from the wall.

 

Ummm.. This is not true. There are hundreds of Herodian stones (extremely huge stones) still intact and in place, the majority of which are below the current street level (the street level in 70CE is actually below the current street level). I have been to both the wailing wall and to the 70CE street level. Unless current archeology finds new evidence to the contrary, there are quite a few Herodian stones still left standing.

 

 

What's your point? I said it was just something I read, that now seems to now be true according to this information. I haven't researched that much into it, so, dunno :shrug:

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Actually, i read somewhere that none of the stones in the wailing wall date from the time of Herod, that in fact they were all from the time of Hadrian, also known as a great builder.

 

There are so many other problems with the Jesus story anyhow that this seems hardly worth arguing over. I was impressed by the fact that he quoted from books that were later deemed to be non-canonical. Was he mistaken or were just the parts that he quoted OK? Or was the church mistaken for not recognizing them as canonical?

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I was impressed by the fact that he quoted from books that were later deemed to be non-canonical. Was he mistaken or were just the parts that he quoted OK? Or was the church mistaken for not recognizing them as canonical?

 

I am intrigued by this as well and has been the core of my studies in the past year. One that stands out as interesting is Revelation written by John, and then his contemporary Gnostic non-canonical work, The Apocryphon of John. Supposedly, Revelation was almost not made canonical because of this Gnostic writing.

 

In Jude is another, 1 Enoch is quoted, yet it is not canonical. Then of course, The Gospel of Thomas as well.

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What's your point? I said it was just something I read, that now seems to now be true according to this information. I haven't researched that much into it, so, dunno :shrug:

 

My point is that part of a structure from the Jerusalem of 70CE was left intact, contrary to what Jesus said. So unless you have some archaeological evidence that that the lowest layer of the Western Wall (which is below the current street level) was rebuilt after the destruction of Jerusalem, Jesus made a false prophecy.

 

 

NonXNonExX,

I am aware of at least six different Biblical canons still in use today, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian, Syriac, and Protestant. Christians still cannot agree what should go in their Bible.

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I am aware of at least six different Biblical canons still in use today, Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, Ethiopian, Syriac, and Protestant. Christians still cannot agree what should go in their Bible.

 

Interesting. I was only aware of 2 canons, the Protestant and Catholic. I'll have to check into those others.

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Mark 13:1-2

As he was leaving the temple, one of his disciples said to him, "Look, Teacher! What massive stones! What magnificent buildings!" "Do you see all these great buildings?" replied Jesus. "Not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."

 

Ummm... As one who has visited the site of the old Jewish Temple in Jerusalem, I can tell you that there are stones from the temple mount structure that are dated to King Herod (existed in the temple at the time of Jesus) that are still in their original position. They were not thrown down. Hence Jesus made a false prophecy.

Well...if one waits long enough...20,000 years from now, maybe the prophecy will come true. Just have to wait for it. Haha, just like Christians are still waiting for Jesus' return.

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I am intrigued by this as well and has been the core of my studies in the past year. One that stands out as interesting is Revelation written by John, and then his contemporary Gnostic non-canonical work, The Apocryphon of John. Supposedly, Revelation was almost not made canonical because of this Gnostic writing.

 

In Jude is another, 1 Enoch is quoted, yet it is not canonical. Then of course, The Gospel of Thomas as well.

 

My understanding is that Revelations has been proven to have different Authorship than the Gospel of John. It was studied and deemed to be of completely different authorship. The Gospel is written in near perfect Greek, but Revelation contains quite a few grammatical errors and stylistic differences. It's consistent with two different people's writing styles and is highly unlikely the two were written by the same person at all.

 

There's also many who believe that the Apostle John, John the Evangelist, and John of Patmos were three different people. I think that ones pretty disputed, but I'm pretty sure it's generally accepted by experts in linguistics and writings that Revelation and the Gospel have different authors.

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