Jump to content
Goodbye Jesus

Continued Discussion Rayskidude On Spong


Neon Genesis

Recommended Posts

And forgive me for what? There is no forgiver, and I have not done anything immoral that requires forgiveness.

 

And here you bring up an excellent point. You've never done anything immoral! WOW! I'd like to see what you eat for breakfast, and use the cologne you use, and dress like you, ... I just want to be like you when I grow up.

 

Are you serious? What drives you to make an absolutely stupid statement like this? Do you think anyone who's spent much time with you would concur? Or do you - like so many - limit immorality to murder and robbing banks?

 

There have been many such statements on this site which project this "holier-than-thou" attitude; those who denigrate and condemn some of God's actions as immoral - and all the while maintaining that their own sensitivities are more loving and kind. BS does this repeatedly in his book - referring to supposed modern-day morals and sensibilities that are superior to God the Father and Jesus the Son. In fact, BS is repulsed and finds repugnant (his own words) actions and teachings by Jesus - such as the fact that Satan is the 'father' of those self-righteous religious people (John 8:44).

 

Oh, boo-hoo! We each have that moral freedom to elevate our morals above those of others. And also, to consider ourselves as more righteous than the Biblical God. I simply warn you that Job also questioned God's morals and actions towards him as unjust >> and yet, when he came into God's presence what did he do? He placed his hand over his mouth so as not to say anything else that was stupid!

 

All will one day bow before Jesus the Messiah and acknowledge the fact that He is Savior & LORD. But for those who have refused to follow Him, for those who maintain their way is more righteous than God's >> they are welcome to take hold of the eternity which they have always embraced - an eternity away from the presence of the LORD and from the glory of His power. II Thess 1:5-10

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 146
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • rayskidude

    39

  • Neon Genesis

    27

  • Shyone

    17

  • NotBlinded

    10

It's not us being in need of forgiveness. If God exists, he's the one who needs our forgiveness, and we might not be willing to give it to him unless he regrets his evil actions. Perhaps we will show grace if God is willing to repent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All will one day bow before Jesus the Messiah and acknowledge the fact that He is Savior & LORD. But for those who have refused to follow Him, for those who maintain their way is more righteous than God's >> they are welcome to take hold of the eternity which they have always embraced - an eternity away from the presence of the LORD and from the glory of His power. II Thess 1:5-10

 

Happy to oblige the almighty by staying out of his presence.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

'rayskidude' date='22 January 2010 - 07:32 AM' timestamp='1264163534' post='524689']

Read the context of this one who is spoken of as Immanuel - you'll see in 8:13-15 and 9:1-7 and it's fairly obvious that these things cannot be limited to Isaiah's son born in 8:1.

 

But how are the prophecies described in the verses I quoted sound anything like Jesus? Even if you could somehow prove that Matthew's virgin birth myth isn't based on a mistranslation, the only thing it proves is that Matthew went back and read the OT and wrote a story to fit it. How is that a miraculous prophecy?

 

It is obvious that this prophecy by Isaiah has both a near and a far fulfillment; near by his own son and far by the Son of God. And please go back to my original answer to see that all those close to this issue - the Septuagint translators, the Syrian translation, and Matthew all see the virgin as bearing a son - miraculous conception accomplished by God the Holy Spirit.

 

 

 

So, Moses throwing a temper tantrum is deserving of punishment but God murdering the innocent babies in Egypt is justice?

 

I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the words blatant and insolence; and then try to think of these in terms of standing before a Thrice-Holy God.

 

What does the U.S. government have to do with the OT? God murdered the innocent babies of Egypt who did nothing to deserve the punishment. You're essentially saying God is justified murdering the babies because it was punishment towards the parents. How is this justice in any sense of the word? It'd be like arguing since a parent committed an injustice to you, you're justified in murdering the parent's child. How is this loving your enemies and turning the other cheek in any sense of the phrase? If God was using the babies as some sort of punishment for justice, why didn't God punish the parents instead of punishing the children? What you're doing is rationalizing taking out vengeance on innocent children who have nothing to do with the actions of their parents. I thought Jesus was against an eye for an eye?

 

Again, let me say how wonderful is your "holier-than-thou" stance; it must be great to be you; always with the correct moral standing. Able to pronounce judgement upon God Himself - must be a great feeling.

 

When the USA bombed Japan, or Germany, or Afghanistan- you pick it - were/are we as a nation guilty of murdering innocent babies? Even children in the womb? If so, what should be a just punishment for each American for such an atrocity that we have participated in?

 

 

The fact that I can come up with dozens of alternative solutions to how God could have rescued the Isrealites without murdering any babies just proves that the bible is a human-made book, not divinely inspired by God.

 

Again with your "holier-than-thou" attitude. It must be Hell for you living amongst sinners.

 

And the Bible says the Earth is spherical - Job 25:10.

Job says the Earth is a circle, not a sphere. Circles are flat, like pancakes and frisbees.

 

When you look at something from all angles and see a circle, what is the shape of that object? BTW - do you believe in frisbeeism - when you die, you're just like that frisbee on the roof, that no one ever retrieves?

 

 

If the bible teaches a spherical Earth and that the Earth is not the center of the universe, why are there no Christian writings about it before the time of Copernicus and Galileo? Why was Galileo persecuted for his science if the bible taught all along the Earth revolved around the sun? If the Earth revolves around the sun in the bible, how was Joshua able to stop the sun in the sky?

 

Did it ever occur to you that people had bigger fish to fry than the shape of the Earth - like staying alive during the Dark Ages, etc?

Galileo was persecuted by the RCC - 'nuff said.

DO you know what a miracle is - do you know what colloquial language is? And are you saying that God cannot do miracles?

 

In Genesis 1, God creates the animals first and then creates Adam and Eve. In Genesis 2, he creates Adam first, then the animals, then Eve. Genesis 1 also says it takes place in six days whereas Genesis 2 says it takes place all in one day. If these are supposed to be literal scientific theories about the origins of the universe, why are they so different from each other? Try reading the accounts side by side and see if you can reconcile the accounts besides the usual apologetic response that Genesis 2 is just a "recap."

 

Re: Adam & Eve, Gen2 does not contradict Gen 1; Gen 1 says God created male & female in His image, Gen 2 gives the specifics of that creation. Your other statement about these chaps are just wrong - you're forced some chronology inferences on the text. That's your problem.

 

There are thousands of scientists across the globe with advanced degrees in various physical science disciplines who hold to Creationism - both from Scripture and from the data we see and experience everyday.

 

Which scientists are these?

 

It's a fairly extensive list - look up the membership of the Creation Research Society. There are also separate orgs in the UK and Australia. Also, look at Intelligent Design books - the book Intelligent Design 101 has extensive footnotes and an Author Index.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's not us being in need of forgiveness. If God exists, he's the one who needs our forgiveness, and we might not be willing to give it to him unless he regrets his evil actions. Perhaps we will show grace if God is willing to repent.

 

Back to BS. He says the Flood couldn't have happened because of the height of Mt Everest. You know, I have to laugh when I read such nonsense. Where does the Bible say that Mt Everest existed before the Flood? But in fact, the Bible states that 4 generations from Noah, Peleg was born - whose name means something like "earthquake" - and Gen 10:25 says in his days the earth was divided. Some Biblical scholars see this as the split (Heb = palag) or breakup of Pangaea into Gondwana and Laurasia - and then later into the continents as we now have them.

 

The Bible presents 'catastrophism' as a serious player in forming the Earth's geology, but under the influence of Lyell - many modern geologists bought into 'uniformitarianism' as the main (and almost only) player. But in the last 100 years, various discoveries have caused many geologists to return to catastrophe as the logical answer to explain so much of Earth's geology. And so, we know high, jagged mountain ranges are formed by plate tectonics - Himalayas and Rockies, etc - causing the buckling of crust. SO, the higher mountains did not exist until after the Flood. All I can say is - BS has done minimal research.

 

And BS believes in a weak God - the Bible does not. God is able to make the sun "stand still" without disrupting life. I guess since BS can't wrap his mind around that truth - well, it just must not be true. He has placed his finite mind as the standard for what constitutes true religious belief. Here again, we see that "holier-than-thou" that is so appealing; but now even a "smarter-than-thou" attitude towards whatever he cannot fathom.

 

When Jesus calmed the wind - the waters immediately ceased their tempestuous waves, too. No continued after effects from the wind on the waves - now that's a miracle!

 

Oh yeah, BS decries that the Bible is mean to women & homosexuals. I have posted elsewhere that the Bible highly regards women - and compare the treatment of women in Christian lands to any and all others. And compare the women who followed Jesus to other movements - no sexual playthings here! No be treated as groupies.

 

Re: homosexuals - yes, the Bible condemns this as depraved, sinful behavior - unnatural in its cravings and actions. And to remove this as an issue from Sodom & Gomorrah - well, that's just nonsense.

 

BS alludes to Paul Erlich & all that Population Bomb nonsense. Where is the evidence? After 40 years - Erlich's predictions are proven to be fatuous.

 

Finally, BS is afraid - again - that Christianity will wither and die. I saw some recent stats. In the USA - RCC and mainline liberal denomination churches have experienced an 25-35% decrease in the past few decades. No surprise here - they have no Gospel, no message!

 

The evangelical churches have seen about a 5-10% decrease. Disappointing, but not unexpected. We know that our culture is turning increasingly away from the Bible - and given what is stated in Scripture - we're not surprised.

 

But world-wide? Evangelical ministries are seeing multitudes of conversions in South America and sub-Saharan Africa, in fact many Christian missionaries are now from the Southern Hemisphere!! We're also seeing thousands of conversions each year in Central Asia, Indonesia, the Middle East, and the Far East.

 

So, are Bible-believing Christians concerned about the state of Christianity? Only to the extent that we mourn over our own unrighteousness before God & man - issues of personal holiness remain a concern. What about a lack of coverts? There have been throughout history periods of apostasy and revival - USA now in apostasy, much of the world in revival.

 

No sweat - no worries, mate. God is on His throne accomplishing His purposes for His glory and our good. Are we clear on that?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There have been many such statements on this site which project this "holier-than-thou" attitude; those who denigrate and condemn some of God's actions as immoral - and all the while maintaining that their own sensitivities are more loving and kind. BS does this repeatedly in his book - referring to supposed modern-day morals and sensibilities that are superior to God the Father and Jesus the Son. In fact, BS is repulsed and finds repugnant (his own words) actions and teachings by Jesus - such as the fact that Satan is the 'father' of those self-righteous religious people (John 8:44).

 

Oh, boo-hoo! We each have that moral freedom to elevate our morals above those of others. And also, to consider ourselves as more righteous than the Biblical God. I simply warn you that Job also questioned God's morals and actions towards him as unjust >> and yet, when he came into God's presence what did he do? He placed his hand over his mouth so as not to say anything else that was stupid!

 

All will one day bow before Jesus the Messiah and acknowledge the fact that He is Savior & LORD. But for those who have refused to follow Him, for those who maintain their way is more righteous than God's >> they are welcome to take hold of the eternity which they have always embraced - an eternity away from the presence of the LORD and from the glory of His power. II Thess 1:5-10

 

What meaning does justice and fairness, empathy and compassion have, when all Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. are punished for eternity? Who, ultimately, is at fault for this?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Back to BS. He says the Flood couldn't have happened because of the height of Mt Everest. You know, I have to laugh when I read such nonsense. Where does the Bible say that Mt Everest existed before the Flood? But in fact, the Bible states that 4 generations from Noah, Peleg was born - whose name means something like "earthquake" - and Gen 10:25 says in his days the earth was divided. Some Biblical scholars see this as the split (Heb = palag) or breakup of Pangaea into Gondwana and Laurasia - and then later into the continents as we now have them.

 

Let me get this straight. You think there were people alive at the time of the flood, right? That is what the Bible says. How does that square with the scientific fact that there were no people alive at the time of the breakup of Pangaea?

200 million years ago there were no people. 70 million years ago when what is now India collided with Asia to form the Himalayan mountains there were no people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And forgive me for what? There is no forgiver, and I have not done anything immoral that requires forgiveness.

 

And here you bring up an excellent point. You've never done anything immoral! WOW! I'd like to see what you eat for breakfast, and use the cologne you use, and dress like you, ... I just want to be like you when I grow up.

 

Are you serious?

 

I have never done anything immoral that requires forgiveness.

 

That is, whatever I have done that is an offense to anyone has been forgiven by those whom I have offended. There is no one else to grant forgiveness. I do not require your forgiveness. I do not require the forgiveness of a group of people. In point of fact, you cannot forgive me unless I have directly offended you, and certainly no third party could forgive me for offending you.

 

Forgiveness is personal, human and specific to an offense. Gods have no authority to "forgive." To put it into theistic terms, if he/she who I have offended has forgiven me, then any god that would not also forgive would be less than the one that I offended.

 

On a related note, no one can "die for the forgiveness of my sins". That is nonsensical.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

It is obvious that this prophecy by Isaiah has both a near and a far fulfillment; near by his own son and far by the Son of God. And please go back to my original answer to see that all those close to this issue - the Septuagint translators, the Syrian translation, and Matthew all see the virgin as bearing a son - miraculous conception accomplished by God the Holy Spirit.

Where did the Jews ever have a concept of "double prophecies" in the OT? And again, even if you could argue Matthew didn't base the virgin birth myth on a mistranslation, how is it a miracle for an author to go back and read a prophecy and make up a story about the prophecy?

 

 

 

 

I suggest you get a dictionary and look up the words blatant and insolence; and then try to think of these in terms of standing before a Thrice-Holy God.

What does God being "thrice-holy" (whatever that means) have to do with anything? Why is it justifiable for God to murder innocent babies while punishing a man for a temper tantrum? You're just dodging the question.

 

Again, let me say how wonderful is your "holier-than-thou" stance; it must be great to be you; always with the correct moral standing. Able to pronounce judgement upon God Himself - must be a great feeling.

Yes, I do think I'm more moral than a god who would approve of murder. Are you actually saying that a murderer is more moral than me? Who's doing the judging again here? Perhaps you should pluck the shards out of your own eye first.

 

When the USA bombed Japan, or Germany, or Afghanistan- you pick it - were/are we as a nation guilty of murdering innocent babies? Even children in the womb? If so, what should be a just punishment for each American for such an atrocity that we have participated in?
Was Hitler justified in slaughtering the Jews because he claimed God was on his side? Were Muslims justified in attacking the WTC because they claimed God was on their side?

 

When you look at something from all angles and see a circle, what is the shape of that object? BTW - do you believe in frisbeeism - when you die, you're just like that frisbee on the roof, that no one ever retrieves?
Huh? What does this even mean?

 

 

Did it ever occur to you that people had bigger fish to fry than the shape of the Earth - like staying alive during the Dark Ages, etc?

Galileo was persecuted by the RCC - 'nuff said.

DO you know what a miracle is - do you know what colloquial language is? And are you saying that God cannot do miracles?

Exactly. The early Christians did not believe the bible was a science textbook which you seem to do in spite of your claims otherwise. Biblical literalism is a modern invention created by 19th century evangelical Christians in the U.S. in response to the Enlightenment movement. You're only proving my point that biblical literalism is a modern invention and that you don't have to believe the bible is the literal word of God to find value in it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Adam & Eve, Gen2 does not contradict Gen 1; Gen 1 says God created male & female in His image, Gen 2 gives the specifics of that creation. Your other statement about these chaps are just wrong - you're forced some chronology inferences on the text. That's your problem.

How is my chronology of the Genesis accounts wrong? You fail to explain how I'm wrong. You simply assert that I am without explaining how. Or are you denying that Genesis chapter 1 says God created animals on day five?
And God said, ‘Let the waters bring forth swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the dome of the sky.’ 21So God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, of every kind, with which the waters swarm, and every winged bird of every kind. And God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, ‘Be fruitful and multiply and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.’ 23And there was evening and there was morning, the fifth day.
It says right here in the bible that God created animals on day five. It follows by saying God created Adam and Eve on day six, the day after he created all the animals
God blessed them, and God said to them, ‘Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the air and over every living thing that moves upon the earth.’ 29God said, ‘See, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, everything that has the breath of life, I have given every green plant for food.’ And it was so. 31God saw everything that he had made, and indeed, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day.
But if you read Genesis 2, it says God creates humans before he creates the animals
In the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens, 5when no plant of the field was yet in the earth and no herb of the field had yet sprung up—for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was no one to till the ground; 6but a stream would rise from the earth, and water the whole face of the ground— 7then the Lord God formed man from the dust of the ground,* and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and the man became a living being. 8And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden, in the east; and there he put the man whom he had formed. 9Out of the ground the Lord God made to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight and good for food, the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
He also only makes man at this point whereas in chapter 1, he made men and women both at once. Here in Genesis 2, God makes the animals after he makes Adam, which is the opposite of chapter 1 where he makes the animals before Adam
Then the Lord God said, ‘It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper as his partner.’ 19So out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the air, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called each living creature, that was its name.
Please explain to me how you can reconcile these chapters and not just asserting that I'm wrong without explaining how I'm wrong.

 

 

It's a fairly extensive list - look up the membership of the Creation Research Society. There are also separate orgs in the UK and Australia. Also, look at Intelligent Design books - the book Intelligent Design 101 has extensive footnotes and an Author Index.

Calling ID scientists "creationist research" is like calling homeopaths doctors.

 

But world-wide? Evangelical ministries are seeing multitudes of conversions in South America and sub-Saharan Africa, in fact many Christian missionaries are now from the Southern Hemisphere!! We're also seeing thousands of conversions each year in Central Asia, Indonesia, the Middle East, and the Far East.

And now bible believing Christians in Uganda are trying to execute gays for being gay because of their literal belief in the book of Leviticus and apparently you don't care.

 

So, are Bible-believing Christians concerned about the state of Christianity? Only to the extent that we mourn over our own unrighteousness before God & man - issues of personal holiness remain a concern. What about a lack of coverts? There have been throughout history periods of apostasy and revival - USA now in apostasy, much of the world in revival.

So, in other words, you're saying bible-believing Christians only care about themselves and they don't care if Uganda uses their biblical literalism to murder gay people?
Link to comment
Share on other sites

No sweat - no worries, mate. God is on His throne accomplishing His purposes for His glory and our good. Are we clear on that?

Ahura Mazda bless you too. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Back to BS. He says the Flood couldn't have happened because of the height of Mt Everest. You know, I have to laugh when I read such nonsense. Where does the Bible say that Mt Everest existed before the Flood? But in fact, the Bible states that 4 generations from Noah, Peleg was born - whose name means something like "earthquake" - and Gen 10:25 says in his days the earth was divided. Some Biblical scholars see this as the split (Heb = palag) or breakup of Pangaea into Gondwana and Laurasia - and then later into the continents as we now have them.

 

Let me get this straight. You think there were people alive at the time of the flood, right? That is what the Bible says. How does that square with the scientific fact that there were no people alive at the time of the breakup of Pangaea?

200 million years ago there were no people. 70 million years ago when what is now India collided with Asia to form the Himalayan mountains there were no people.

 

Let me say - it's obvious that I do not agree with your timescale. I believe in the Biblical timescale. So, people were here on planet Earth during the break-up of Pangaea and the formation of the Himalayas - as stated in Genesis.

 

The geological record is full of examples of catastrophism - as portrayed in Scripture; and there are a number of geological "anomalies" which are inexplicable by the currently accepted timescales.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New Age? I think you need to educate yourself on some early Theologians which were mystics.

 

Please point me to an early Christian theologian who spouted New Age thoughts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Let me say - it's obvious that I do not agree with your timescale. I believe in the Biblical timescale. So, people were here on planet Earth during the break-up of Pangaea and the formation of the Himalayas - as stated in Genesis.

So the entire discussion must be based on word-of-mouth myths and fairy tales, scientific proof be damned? Shit, I was hoping for some intelligence thrown in, but where xians are involved, that's hard to find.

Ok, so gawd created everything in six days, rabbits chew cud, and pi is 3. Anything else I'm supposed to swallow in the name of gawd the all powerful fuck-up?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

New Age? I think you need to educate yourself on some early Theologians which were mystics.

 

Please point me to an early Christian theologian who spouted New Age thoughts.

The apocrypha and the Gnostics, Docetism. Need details?

 

I'd rather not expound on this. To me it's just mysticism on top of the unknowable.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

Let me say - it's obvious that I do not agree with your timescale. I believe in the Biblical timescale. So, people were here on planet Earth during the break-up of Pangaea and the formation of the Himalayas - as stated in Genesis.

So the entire discussion must be based on word-of-mouth myths and fairy tales, scientific proof be damned? Shit, I was hoping for some intelligence thrown in, but where xians are involved, that's hard to find.

Ok, so gawd created everything in six days, rabbits chew cud, and pi is 3. Anything else I'm supposed to swallow in the name of gawd the all powerful fuck-up?

Bats are birds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No sweat - no worries, mate. God is on His throne accomplishing His purposes for His glory and our good. Are we clear on that?

Ahura Mazda bless you too. :)

Ahura Honda bless us all, every one.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me say - it's obvious that I do not agree with your timescale. I believe in the Biblical timescale. So, people were here on planet Earth during the break-up of Pangaea and the formation of the Himalayas - as stated in Genesis.

 

The geological record is full of examples of catastrophism - as portrayed in Scripture; and there are a number of geological "anomalies" which are inexplicable by the currently accepted timescales.

 

LOL its not "my" timescale. There is the whole science of geology that says its true. I am not a geologist either, just took one college course. Just because you are too ignorant to impartially investigate the evidence, you must fall back on Biblical fantasies. There were NO human beings alive 50 million years ago, much less 200 million. Proto-apes, maybe, but not modern humans.

 

Then again, maybe you think the Himalayan mountains are only a few thousand years old?

 

Just because there were catastrophies in the past does not mean your Biblical time scale fantasy is true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Let me say - it's obvious that I do not agree with your timescale. I believe in the Biblical timescale. So, people were here on planet Earth during the break-up of Pangaea and the formation of the Himalayas - as stated in Genesis.

 

The geological record is full of examples of catastrophism - as portrayed in Scripture; and there are a number of geological "anomalies" which are inexplicable by the currently accepted timescales.

 

LOL its not "my" timescale. There is the whole science of geology that says its true. I am not a geologist either, just took one college course. Just because you are too ignorant to impartially investigate the evidence, you must fall back on Biblical fantasies. There were NO human beings alive 50 million years ago, much less 200 million. Proto-apes, maybe, but not modern humans.

 

Then again, maybe you think the Himalayan mountains are only a few thousand years old?

 

Just because there were catastrophies in the past does not mean your Biblical time scale fantasy is true.

It is ironic that it really doesn't take much education and study to put the pieces of the puzzle together and understand why scientists use a geologic time scale, and how this has been so thoroughly supported by every study.

 

Apologetic literature warps the mind.

 

rayskidude has tried to touch the science without being contaminated by it. So far he has been successful at remaining ignorant in the face of an overwhelming body of evidence.

 

Have you seen the videos of dogs and cats that sit before a screen or glass door where the glass has been removed? People walk past them and through the door proving there is no barrier, but the dogs and cats just sit there and wait for someone to open the door. It's humorous. They are "dumb animals."

 

Watching humans do the same thing with knowledge is just sad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching humans do the same thing with knowledge is just sad.

 

Yeah, its sad. Even having this kind of a conversation, oral or written, about geologic time in this present day is just the DUMBEST THING EVER.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Watching humans do the same thing with knowledge is just sad.

 

Yeah, its sad. Even having this kind of a conversation, oral or written, about geologic time in this present day is just the DUMBEST THING EVER.

Absolutely. The appropriate sentiment, I believe, is "the stupid, it burns."

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Please point me to an early Christian theologian who spouted New Age thoughts.

Ever heard of the early church father, Origen? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origen
Origen (Greek: Ὠριγένης Ōrigénēs, or Origen Adamantius, c. 185–254[1]) was an early Christian scholar and theologian, and one of the most distinguished of the early fathers of the Christian Church. According to tradition, he is held to have been an Egyptian[2] who taught in Alexandria, reviving the Catechetical School of Alexandria where Clement of Alexandria had taught.[3] The patriarch of Alexandria at first supported Origen but later expelled him for being ordained without the patriarch's permission.[4] He relocated to Caesarea Maritima and died there after being tortured during a persecution.[5]

 

Using his knowledge of Hebrew, he produced a corrected Septuagint.[6] He wrote commentaries on most of the books of the Bible.[6] In De principiis (On First Principles), he articulated one of the first philosophical expositions of Christian doctrine.[6] He interpreted scripture allegorically and showed himself to be a Neo-Pythagorean, and Neo-Platonist.[6] Like Plotinus, he wrote that the soul passes through successive stages of incarnation before eventually reaching God.[6] He imagined even demons being reunited with God. For Origen, God was the First Principle, and Christ, the Logos, was subordinate to him.[6] His views of a hierarchical structure in the Trinity, the temporality of matter, "the fabulous preexistence of souls," and "the monstrous restoration which follows from it" were declared anathema in the 6th century.[7]

 

rayskidude has tried to touch the science without being contaminated by it. So far he has been successful at remaining ignorant in the face of an overwhelming body of evidence.

I've also noticed that Ray has not addressed the issue of the four-document hypothesis that scholars believe the OT was compiled together from which Spong discusses in this book. Instead, Ray chooses to respond to the "easy" criticisms of Spong that he has ready-made apologetic responses for. I'm curious to see what Ray thinks of the Q gospel.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What does the U.S. government have to do with the OT? God murdered the innocent babies of Egypt who did nothing to deserve the punishment. You're essentially saying God is justified murdering the babies because it was punishment towards the parents. How is this justice in any sense of the word? It'd be like arguing since a parent committed an injustice to you, you're justified in murdering the parent's child. How is this loving your enemies and turning the other cheek in any sense of the phrase? If God was using the babies as some sort of punishment for justice, why didn't God punish the parents instead of punishing the children? What you're doing is rationalizing taking out vengeance on innocent children who have nothing to do with the actions of their parents. I thought Jesus was against an eye for an eye?

 

Again, let me say how wonderful is your "holier-than-thou" stance; it must be great to be you; always with the correct moral standing. Able to pronounce judgement upon God Himself - must be a great feeling.

 

When the USA bombed Japan, or Germany, or Afghanistan- you pick it - were/are we as a nation guilty of murdering innocent babies? Even children in the womb? If so, what should be a just punishment for each American for such an atrocity that we have participated in?

Oh please...all you are saying is that God is human if he acts like humans. Hey, that's what we say too. You can't keep trying to equate humans as sinful little entities when your god acts just like them. :Doh:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And BS believes in a weak God - the Bible does not. God is able to make the sun "stand still" without disrupting life. I guess since BS can't wrap his mind around that truth - well, it just must not be true. He has placed his finite mind as the standard for what constitutes true religious belief. Here again, we see that "holier-than-thou" that is so appealing; but now even a "smarter-than-thou" attitude towards whatever he cannot fathom.

He can do that but he can't do what Neon suggested?

 

So why wasn't God able to bring justice to the Isrealites without murdering innocent babies? Why couldn't have God used his miracles to teleport the Isrealites to Canaan?

Okay...

 

Oh, and your lowlier-than-thou attitude is nothing more than holier-than-thou in sheep's clothing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that truth

 

what 'truth'? You're a spoof, aren't you? Nobody could possibly be this much of a dumb-ass.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Guidelines.