Christians Et Al, Why Does God Not Grant Prayers Of Biblical Clarity?

[Antlerman]

 

 

I would still argue that regardless of the context, it is still a practice that is about moving beyond your own thoughts of the mundane towards the more 'transcendent', in that sense.

 

Religion in the form of Christianity with it's prophetic components is like the example I gave above to Chef. Another example, a Rubek's cube. Have you ever done one?

 

It's a certain pattern around other patterns to get to the result, all uniformity of the colors. That's why I like Isaac Newton's take of Biblical prophecy (see signature). Prophecy shows His providence. This can correlate into what I was saying to Chef.

 

Also, with that rubik's cube. Originally, the ones that solved it were supposedly genius. Now, that we know the mechanics, it is a simple game of who can do it the fastest.

 

This only within 25-35 year span. Now, take Rubik's cube (physical thing) replace it with the Bible, prophecies, Christ's parables.

I wasn't talking about the bible or religion really, but the act of prayer.

[NotBlinded]

People say the Bible has evolved, the interpretation has changed, the message keeps changing. Well, of course it has. Why? Because when it was spoken, it was not spoken for that time and as the time approaches, things within the book hold more water, bring more light than in another era.

 

Example (which I don't necessarily agree with) Watch those that are in flight, when the harvest comes is what Christ said. Now, we all know flight there meant travel. Yet, the rapturers will tell you that when we get snatched up in the air, vanish (Cor) that according to Christ, planes may fall to the ground.

 

So, to say the perfect word of God has to perfect for 2000 years ago would in itself make it not a perfect word from God, but sense it was written and comprehended differently throughout many eras, generations, ages, it does hold water for me because even for my own personal life, in 2012AD, with the world as it is, it relates, especially the end time scripture.

Abi,

 

I think it to be more likely that it was written specifically for those of that time and if any meaning is found in it to be relational to us in this era, then it has to do with the psychology of humanity, not of predictions outside of the self. That is the only thing that usually stays the same...the emotions of people. The external references aren't that important in a spiritual work.

[Brakeman]

 

 

It doesn't really matter a lick, but it sort of drives me nuts that you can't see that the foolishness of these sorts of contradictions either point to no God, or to one that is not quite stable himself.

 

 

 

 

Challenge for you Chef. If you lived 300 years ago as a scientist and someone was trying to explain to you that they had a dream and the man explained things to you and called it Quantum physics. This man wrote it down and was trying to explain it in relative terms. Would you have understood it then? ..

 

Ah, the old "god would tell you more but you wouldn't be able to understand it" ploy..

 

So "god" tells man to obey his laws or he'll send them to hell in a lake of fire, but he's unwilling or unable to clarify his own laws for man, because man wouldn't understand the clarification.

 

Hmm so if men's minds are so weak as to not be able to handle the awesome clarity of the most powerful god, who is at fault? Man or the god who holds them to a higher standard than they are able to attain? Is god unable to use his magic to imprint upon their minds anything that they haven't yet figured out for themselves? I've never been to Ireland, so even if god wanted he couldn't give me visions of what I would see there? This is the same god who could divide the waters and raise the dead, right?

 

The original question was "why won't god answer prayers for biblical clarity?". If you say he does and has, then that begs the question as to why all the differing sects and creeds among christians who all claim to have been guided by god from prayers for biblical clarity and guidance.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

The original question was "why won't god answer prayers for biblical clarity?". If you say he does and has, then that begs the question as to why all the differing sects and creeds among christians who all claim to have been guided by god from prayers for biblical clarity and guidance.

 

I guess because He made everyone different.

[Abiyoyo]

Man or the god who holds them to a higher standard than they are able to attain?

 

Well, the factor of diversity and difference in church doctrine should have invited you to understand that there are different views of the Bible. Noticing one denomination holds a certain 'ritual' higher than the other should have invited you to understand that different doctrine and denominations have different rituals which they hold as 'Holy".

 

Are you saying that you can't rise to the higher standard that you perceive is God's standards?

 

If so, what are your standards and why do you feel God would not accept those standards?

[Shyone]

Are you saying that you can't rise to the higher standard that you perceive is God's standards?

 

If so, what are your standards and why do you feel God would not accept those standards?

You misunderstood what he was saying. Your nonexistent God holds us to unreasonable standards if we are unable to understand the message. Why hold US accountable for His unreasonable standards (e.g. belief in something without evidence that we are incapable of understanding)?

 

The answer is that there is no message, no god, and no standards that we don't understand.

[Brakeman]

Thanks shyone, on the nose as usual..

[mwc]

You misunderstood what he was saying. Your nonexistent God holds us to unreasonable standards if we are unable to understand the message. Why hold US accountable for His unreasonable standards (e.g. belief in something without evidence that we are incapable of understanding)?

 

The answer is that there is no message, no god, and no standards that we don't understand.

I'm not worried about it.

 

Let me tell you a story...

 

Once upon a time there was a man named Moses. His god gave him a bunch of rules that everyone in his little clan said was "Just Right." And they followed these rules all the time even though plenty of people in that clan got them wrong much of the time and they were punished and even killed.

 

One day another guy, Jesus, appeared and told everyone that those rules were not really good rules but were bad rules in disguise. That the first god was really his dad and his dad sent him to make everything better. So he did some magic tricks for a little while then got himself killed on a cross. A bunch of his followers decided to keep telling everyone all this so they could either get with the new program or go to a fiery inferno for ever and ever.

 

Now people have been waiting for a very long time for this new guy to show up and give them their reward for sticking with his revised set of rules and to stick it to everyone who hasn't. But why should we think that there won't be a yet unnamed third guy that's going to appear and make things even easier than the last two? Maybe even a mom, sister or pet we hadn't heard about in the past? Yohan, god's pet goat? Maybe he'll appear and tell us that Moses had all those perfectly evil rules we were right to ignore unlike the silly Jews. And Jesus had that whole resurrection nonsense that was supposed to replace it but no one really understood it either so it's also out. No, Yohan will replace it with something totally revolutionary. I don't know what it is but it will be something really great and it will go back beyond Abraham, like Jesus and his cult, to Noah or something. Really encompass everyone and everything this go around.

 

So Yohan will appear just before Jesus should return to do his thing and revise the rules so there's an even wider net. Maybe instead of belief this one will just require a pulse or something. And we'll all await the return of Yohan (or whatever Yohan instructs).

 

I think it will just get more and more, lets say, "reasonable" over time as these unknowns from on high venture down at just the right moments to let us know the old rules were there to "instruct" us but they're out and here's the new, and sweeter, deal.

 

mwc

[chefranden]

... So, to say the perfect word of God has to perfect for 2000 years ago would in itself make it not a perfect word from God, but sense it was written and comprehended differently throughout many eras, generations, ages, it does hold water for me because even for my own personal life, in 2012AD, with the world as it is, it relates, especially the end time scripture.

 

 

So the word of god means what ever the hell you want it to mean. Which IMHO means that it means nothing. Which is about what I expected in the first place. A god who is not there would write something meaningless.

 

Hal Lindsy predicted the end of the world in 1981 and that mother fucker is still going strong and pouring out endless bullshit. When the end doesn't come in 2012, what are you going to do? Make another prediction, or give up the bullshit? I bet you don't even sell your stuff and go wait on a hill.

[Skankboy]

I guess because He made everyone different.

Ah! So he IS the author of confusion...

[oddbird1963]

Abi,

 

I think it to be more likely that it was written specifically for those of that time and if any meaning is found in it to be relational to us in this era, then it has to do with the psychology of humanity, not of predictions outside of the self. That is the only thing that usually stays the same...the emotions of people. The external references aren't that important in a spiritual work.

 

 

Well stated, NotBlinded! Any benefit derived from scripture is not found by expecting specially injected knowledge from an angel or a member of the Godhead. It is found in looking at the history of suffering, longing and finding meaning in a rough and tumble world.

[Franko47]

I would go so far as to say that the people living in ancient times would have a better understanding of the Bible than modern folk. The stonings, the harsh rules, the magical miracles and so on would be far more acceptable to less sophisticated and less educated people.

 

It seems that the Old Testament in particular gets "weirder and weirder" as humanity becomes more educated and sophisticated in it's thinking. The average educated person would think that the Bible and especially the Old Testament was a mythical joke if they were merely encountering it for the first time, as opposed to it's status it somehow still enjoys as being interlaced throughout our western experience from birth.

 

Many people who become somewhat dismissive of "most" of scripture are in fact, the theologians and intellectual scholars. Most well-educated priests and ministers I've met are the ones who usually consider most of scripture to be metaphorical, conceptual, and much of it irrelevant. (That is, most theologians who are not fundamentalists)

 

The mass marketers and televangelists of course always disdain philosophical analysis and thinking; and of course the position of "the Bible is just over our heads...etc" is the typical cop-out position of modernists who can't even begin to explain the crossed wires, contradictions and outright insanity encountered all throughout scripture.

 

Only drastic modes of cognitive dissonance could ever make the Bible "make sense". Or that it were "choc full of mysterious wisdom" or "breathtaking revelations".

 

There are no such things contained. Everything there is redundant fare dreamed up by ancient thinking based upon primitive models. The rest are appeals to wishful thinking and emotionalism.

 

Clarity? The clarity is already there; as modern thinkers we see it clearly for what it really is. A jumbled saga of evolved theology and thought; with magical thinking and "god-did-it" explanations for those who cannot confront the many problems with intellectual honesty.