Infernal Greetings!

[JohnInMi]

Greetings!

My conversion was a very slow but also very well thought out one. As a child I was an altar boy, family church goer and a student for 12 years at a Catholic school. Looking back, however, I never REALLY swallowed the whole silly tale. I became away of Satanism as a religion in the 1980's as a teen and bought my copy of the Satanic Bible during either my junior or senior year. I read it quickly and was fascinated by it and although I could not disagree w/ ANY of it (largely speaking), I still clung peripherally to my dying christian faith like a fool.

I guess it was just 'fear of damnation' and the lifelong indoctrination I had gone through. You might say I was a Satanist with both hands around the Satanic Bible.....but w/ one foot still stuck in the church doorway.....

During my very LAST attempt at trying to remain brainwashed, I took to reading the Bible once again, trying to make some sort of sense out of the mess. In going through the gospels and reading all of the nonsense about "giving all thou hast to the poor", how "lust" is a "sin" and how I am supposed to give up everything for someone who died on a cross 2,000 years ago, I finally raised my head, muttered to myself, "Enough is enough!" and, w/ curses on my lips, I proceeded to rip the 'holy' book to shreds until it there was nothing recognizable left of it. (Minutes later, I did the same thing to my 'pocket edition' upstairs)

Before long, I dusted off my Satanic Bible and read it again and yet again. I also found a fine dealer of Satanic ritual items and placed a sizable order. After more than 2 decades of hesitating and stalling, I at long LAST threw myself 100% into the Dark Side (I was already 90% there! ) and am happy and proud of myself for it.

Take care and hope to chat w/ some of you folks

John.

[Dagan]

If you're not a troll, I'll be really surprised.

[florduh]

Catholicism, Satanism, same thing. Worship of something that doesn't exist.

 

BTW, you do know it was the Church that invented the Satan you're familiar with, don't you?

 

Ditto the troll comment.

[hereticzero]

Satanists, creationists, eh, same thing.

[buffettphan]

A church I used to attend preached that if you believe in god, you HAVE to believe in satan.

 

I believe in neither.

 

I am also a former catholic and believe in self. Self is real. Satan is not.

[Shyone]

I notice that you listed "Satan/the self" as your god. Do you think of Satan as a distinct spiritual personality or more of a metaphor?

 

I have read that some aspects of Satanism are more like "spiritual paganism" rather than diety worship. How do you see it?

[Bro]

Greetings!

My conversion was a very slow but also very well thought out one. As a child I was an altar boy, family church goer and a student for 12 years at a Catholic school. Looking back, however, I never REALLY swallowed the whole silly tale. I became away of Satanism as a religion in the 1980's as a teen and bought my copy of the Satanic Bible during either my junior or senior year. I read it quickly and was fascinated by it and although I could not disagree w/ ANY of it (largely speaking), I still clung peripherally to my dying christian faith like a fool.

I guess it was just 'fear of damnation' and the lifelong indoctrination I had gone through. You might say I was a Satanist with both hands around the Satanic Bible.....but w/ one foot still stuck in the church doorway.....

During my very LAST attempt at trying to remain brainwashed, I took to reading the Bible once again, trying to make some sort of sense out of the mess. In going through the gospels and reading all of the nonsense about "giving all thou hast to the poor", how "lust" is a "sin" and how I am supposed to give up everything for someone who died on a cross 2,000 years ago, I finally raised my head, muttered to myself, "Enough is enough!" and, w/ curses on my lips, I proceeded to rip the 'holy' book to shreds until it there was nothing recognizable left of it. (Minutes later, I did the same thing to my 'pocket edition' upstairs)

Before long, I dusted off my Satanic Bible and read it again and yet again. I also found a fine dealer of Satanic ritual items and placed a sizable order. After more than 2 decades of hesitating and stalling, I at long LAST threw myself 100% into the Dark Side (I was already 90% there! ) and am happy and proud of myself for it.

Take care and hope to chat w/ some of you folks

John.

LOL funny as feck

 

But if your serious

 

That is WHACK!

[Midnight-mindwanderings]

Sounds legit to me. I know someone who converted out of my old church into Satanism. I have only heard of Satanists as believing in the power of the self and Satan as the archetype for freedom from authoritative powers (God).

 

That being said, most people on this forum are completely non-religious so be prepared to explain a bit more about what you believe and why if you want to converse with us.

[florduh]

He already said it's Hollywood LaVey style Satanism. No deities technically (though there are lots of props and rituals) but the worship of Hedonism and the selfish and base nature they believe humans possess. Showy, affected rebelliousness practiced by selfish rejects who assume our worst qualities are the norm and should be revered and cultivated.

 

There is already a Reformation in the young church, as some deem the original to have gone commercial and money hungry. Hello?????

[JohnInMi]

I am something of an agnostic when it comes to my own form of Satanism. There is no way that I can prove or disprove His existence but in any case, I respect the image. By any estimate, a strong goat headed Satan is a better image than a crucified 'christ.'

The statement made by one poster that the church invented Satan needs some qualifying. Certainly the church EXPLOITED the image of a horned 'devil' for their own purposes and assigned all sorts of negative qualities to Him (without justification, I might add). The church did not 'invent' Satan anymore than they 'invented' the holidays around the time of the Winter Solstice and the Spring Equinox. Moreover, most of the demons mentioned in the Satanic Bible were once 'gods' under ancient Egyptian, Sumerian or Greek systems that long predated christianity.

Just because christianity is a waste of time doesn't necessarily mean that ALL religions/magical paths/mythology are useless. I've heard people denounce Satanism as 'bogus', 'childish', etc but I've never known a SINGLE person who can say, "The Satanic Bible is wrong in THIS particular section!" w/ an explanation.

[Shyone]

I am something of an agnostic when it comes to my own form of Satanism. There is no way that I can prove or disprove His existence but in any case, I respect the image. By any estimate, a strong goat headed Satan is a better image than a crucified 'christ.'

The statement made by one poster that the church invented Satan needs some qualifying. Certainly the church EXPLOITED the image of a horned 'devil' for their own purposes and assigned all sorts of negative qualities to Him (without justification, I might add). The church did not 'invent' Satan anymore than they 'invented' the holidays around the time of the Winter Solstice and the Spring Equinox. Moreover, most of the demons mentioned in the Satanic Bible were once 'gods' under ancient Egyptian, Sumerian or Greek systems that long predated christianity.

Just because christianity is a waste of time doesn't necessarily mean that ALL religions/magical paths/mythology are useless. I've heard people denounce Satanism as 'bogus', 'childish', etc but I've never known a SINGLE person who can say, "The Satanic Bible is wrong in THIS particular section!" w/ an explanation.

That reminds me of Thurisaz (a poster here): "My God carries a hammer. Your gawd died nailed to a cross. Any questions?" His god is Thor.

 

I've never read the Satanic Bible in its entirety, but I must admit that what I have read makes sense. It reads like posts from this forum:

 

What a simperingly polite way of saying: "I hate your guts," is the thinly disguised

device known as praying for your enemy! Praying for one's own enemy is nothing more than

bargain-basement anger, and of a decidedly shoddy and inferior quality!

 

And:

 

With all the debates about whether or not God is dead, if he isn't he had better have MEDICARE!

THE GOD YOU SAVE

MAY BE YOURSELF

 

And:

 

Many pleasures revered before the advent of Christianity were condemned by the new

religion. It required little changeover to transform the horns and cloven hooves of Pan into a

most convincing devil! Pan's attributes could be neatly changed into charged-with-punishment

sins, and so the metamorphosis was complete.

 

Ok, not bad.

[Vigile]

Catholicism, Satanism, same thing. Worship of something that doesn't exist.

 

BTW, you do know it was the Church that invented the Satan you're familiar with, don't you?

 

Ditto the troll comment.

 

I don't think he's a troll. If you've read the Satanic bible you'd see it's mostly atheistic. I don't personally agree with a lot of it but it's not a mirror image of xianity to be sure.

[JohnInMi]

When I first broke the shackles of christianity, I thought that the Madeline Murray-O'Hare style of atheism was the best fit since she negated ALL of the nonsense and superstition that surrounded christianity. But as the years wore on, some other points slowly started worming their way into my mind, to wit:

Christianity did not invent ANYTHING. (I don't mean to 'over due' that point, but it is one that I feel really needs to be stressed). Concepts such as 'god', 'devil', 'angels', 'demons', 'magic', 'supernatural', 'hereafter', 'worship', 'ritual' 'symbolism' and/or 'ceremonies' were all around THOUSANDS of years before the advent of christianity. A person who believes in any sort of non-materialistic values should not automatically be relegated to the 'christian heap' any more than, for example, a Muslim believer should be considered a 'Jew' simply because they both believe in monotheism.

It is understandable if many ex-christians go the straight atheist route. I have nothing bad to say about your beliefs (or lack thereof ). I only ask that you consider that there are many elements of our universe that cannot yet be explained by science or 'rational' thought. 30,000 years ago sun, wind, fire, rain, thunder and lightning and any other number of factors could only be 'understood' by our Cro-Magnon ancestors by deferring to unknown 'powers.' One day in the distant future, science may well explain such currently debated topics as 'hauntings', 'reincarnation' claims and 'magic' as natural/physical occurrences. If that is the case, then the Satanist will simply die like everyone else and vanish into dust after having fully enjoyed his or her life as a 'black magician.' If there IS a physical/literal 'Satan' waiting for us after death, the Satanist will join the image/being with which they identified with during their time on earth.

It is for these reasons that I consider myself an 'agnostic' when it comes to belief in Satan as either a deity or a symbolic image. Further, I don't waste much time in trying to 'discover' if Satan literally exists or not because in either case, it is a win-win situation for the Satanist.

[RankStranger]

Hey- whatever floats your boat. I read a large fraction of the Satanic Bible, but got bored with it.

 

I just don't see that gods, devils, fairies, goblins, or the like have any relevance to my life. I would LIKE to have a spiritual experience of some sort- just out of curiosity if nothing else. But I've never had even a hint of it. I suspect that spirituality is something that's hard-wired into the human brain, and my spiritual neural connections are atrophied. Maybe Christianity impeded their development.

[Shyone]

When I first broke the shackles of christianity, I thought that the Madeline Murray-O'Hare style of atheism was the best fit since she negated ALL of the nonsense and superstition that surrounded christianity. But as the years wore on, some other points slowly started worming their way into my mind, to wit:

Christianity did not invent ANYTHING. (I don't mean to 'over due' that point, but it is one that I feel really needs to be stressed). Concepts such as 'god', 'devil', 'angels', 'demons', 'magic', 'supernatural', 'hereafter', 'worship', 'ritual' 'symbolism' and/or 'ceremonies' were all around THOUSANDS of years before the advent of christianity. A person who believes in any sort of non-materialistic values should not automatically be relegated to the 'christian heap' any more than, for example, a Muslim believer should be considered a 'Jew' simply because they both believe in monotheism.

 

Yes, yes, yes. This is true. I searched ancient religions and found the same thing. I wondered where the idea of God came from (since it obviously didn't originate with the Hebrews), and I found that the whole scheme has been in the works for eons. Including the details!

 

It is understandable if many ex-christians go the straight atheist route. I have nothing bad to say about your beliefs (or lack thereof ). I only ask that you consider that there are many elements of our universe that cannot yet be explained by science or 'rational' thought. 30,000 years ago sun, wind, fire, rain, thunder and lightning and any other number of factors could only be 'understood' by our Cro-Magnon ancestors by deferring to unknown 'powers.' One day in the distant future, science may well explain such currently debated topics as 'hauntings', 'reincarnation' claims and 'magic' as natural/physical occurrences. If that is the case, then the Satanist will simply die like everyone else and vanish into dust after having fully enjoyed his or her life as a 'black magician.' If there IS a physical/literal 'Satan' waiting for us after death, the Satanist will join the image/being with which they identified with during their time on earth.

It is for these reasons that I consider myself an 'agnostic' when it comes to belief in Satan as either a deity or a symbolic image. Further, I don't waste much time in trying to 'discover' if Satan literally exists or not because in either case, it is a win-win situation for the Satanist.

It's a question of epistemology. I approach existence, facts, discovery and reality from the perspective that there has always been a natural explanation for the things gods used to explain: The stars, sun, moon, weather, seasons, and even the variety of life.

 

Just because we don't know something does not mean that we should automatically assume a ghost, spirit, god, angel or demon did it. When lights burn out, I look for a cause, not a spirit of darkness.

 

Extrapolating the known into the unknown is reasonable. Explaining the unknown with the unknown is unjustified and unreasonable.

[jfinite]

[snip] 30,000 years ago sun, wind, fire, rain, thunder and lightning and any other number of factors could only be 'understood' by our Cro-Magnon ancestors by deferring to unknown 'powers.' One day in the distant future, science may well explain such currently debated topics as 'hauntings', 'reincarnation' claims and 'magic' as natural/physical occurrences. If that is the case, then the Satanist will simply die like everyone else and vanish into dust after having fully enjoyed his or her life as a 'black magician.' If there IS a physical/literal 'Satan' waiting for us after death, the Satanist will join the image/being with which they identified with during their time on earth.

It is for these reasons that I consider myself an 'agnostic' when it comes to belief in Satan as either a deity or a symbolic image. Further, I don't waste much time in trying to 'discover' if Satan literally exists or not because in either case, it is a win-win situation for the Satanist.

 

Uhhh, say what?

[JohnInMi]

Atheism does a terrific job of covering the reason factor as far as its relation to christianity. I have no quarrel with them in that sense. But as human beings, we have not-fully-defined emotional needs as well. No offense is meant herein to the atheists/materialists on this board, but I have to honestly ask: What is more emotionally stimulating: A picture of the atomic symbol of the American Atheists.........or the glorified image of a strong and powerful goat headed Satan holding a dagger or sword aloft ?

Personally (and again, this is just my OWN opinion, folks....no offense is intended!) , I think straight atheists tend to over play the reason/logic factor a bit without giving due attention to the element of emotion. If you doubt this opinion, allow me to present a scenario: A man comes home to find his house on fire and his little daughter trapped inside, waving frantically from a window for help. Is he going to cast his fears aside and rush in to rescue her because his left brain tells him: "That being is my child and children are born of the parent and are therefore attached thereof; ergo, I must enter the inflamed area and extricate said child because child is an extension of my own self." Hell no! He's going to rush headlong into the flames on PURE EMOTION, suicidal as it may be, because that is his little princess screaming for daddy and reason/logic means nothing to him at that point! Truly, he will achieve 'superhuman' goals as he charges forward, ignores any pain the fire/smoke inflicts on his own body and (hopefully) drags/throws/pushes his little girl to safety in spite of all the odds.

As another example, I have been told some years ago by a practicing martial artist that a person HAS to believe that they can break the 2x4, cinder block, brick or other object in order to be successful. If the would be martial artist was to stand there and 'logically' say, "But....human bone is scientifically/physically 'weaker' than stone. I cannot do it!", there would be no martial arts, period! The would be karate student would fracture his bones on the (physically superior) objects instead of shattering/crushing them.

Bottom line: Emotion itself is 'magic' to me. Emotion, imagination, fantasy and pure unbridled will to power can add up to more than we can possibly conceive! Why not use it to our own advantage ??

[Shyone]

I think straight atheists tend to over play the reason/logic factor a bit without giving due attention to the element of emotion.

 

I don't think atheists discount emotion as much as you imply. We put emotion where it belongs and try to understand it.

 

Yielding to emotion instead of reason, barring the situations where there is "no time to reason", is foolishness. Experience is a better guide. WRT martial arts, you see someone performing the "act", they explain it to you, you train carefully and learn your own strengths and weaknesses, and you break stone - or not. Emotion (fear) may keep one from attempting a feat that others have done and a person is capable of performing. Fear can also cause failure in this circumstance where experience teaches that one should be capable.

[trashy]

Bottom line: Emotion itself is 'magic' to me. Emotion, imagination, fantasy and pure unbridled will to power can add up to more than we can possibly conceive! Why not use it to our own advantage ??

 

I read the Satanic bible. I like the way he dealt with the power of self and selfishness as opposed to Christian self-LESS-ness, and I was hoping to gain some therapeutic benefit, mind-body stuff. But in the end even Levay seems to veer off into the realm of the supernatural. I have no problems with the idea of ritual, but I can't do so with the view that I am tapping into some unseen force or entity. I was so disappointed, because I was kinda looking forward to being able to call myself Satanist, if for no other reason than to fuck with a lot of people. Oh well.

[JohnInMi]

Shyone, maybe I didn't explain it properly. I don't mean to say that emotion is always good or that it should 'triumph' over reason or anything of that sort. I'm only saying that CONSTRUCTIVE emotion and imagery alongside reason/common sense can be a powerful motivator.

Trashy, LaVey sort of leaves the door open for people to make their own decisions, at least that was my interpretation of his philosophy. Even one of his former high priests, Michael Aquino, admitted that LaVey's definition of 'Satan' and whether or not He exists can be a bit 'confusing.' I have to wonder if, deep down, he felt as I do and really didn't know for sure either way.

[Shyone]

Shyone, maybe I didn't explain it properly. I don't mean to say that emotion is always good or that it should 'triumph' over reason or anything of that sort. I'm only saying that CONSTRUCTIVE emotion and imagery alongside reason/common sense can be a powerful motivator.

That is essentially what I was saying. Atheists don't "over play the reason/logic factor a bit without giving due attention to the element of emotion." Emotion guided by reason is different from unbridled emotion, and in this context emotion is - "a powerful motivator."

 

Same thing. I worry about emotion uncoupled with reason. Like Christianity or insanity.

 

Same thing again.

[ShallowByThyGame]

The symbology of Satan, being used as a defiant metaphor against religion, is certainly powerful. I often make the hand symbol for Satan in such a way.

 

Emotion is like fire, it is very useful but some control is necessary. I suppose a lot of what makes up our emotional state is in our nuerochemistry of course, so we all may experience them differently.

 

If atheism lacks anything that's only because atheism doesn't claim anything. However, the atheists I know can be very passionate and emotional too, and may very well enjoy strong symbolism in their daily lives. The only thing I would caution however, is too put any particular concept on a pedestal. New atheism, imho, is the idea of rejecting the supernatural and putting critical thinking in it's place. Critical thinking is the act of questioning our assumptions over and over again, to understand why we know what we know. But just because I believe that there is a reality that exists, and scientific inquiry is the only way to confidently describe that reality, doesn't mean I have to live according to that reality. I guess I'm saying I can know potato chips are bad for me and still eat a whole bag as an primal act of gluttony. Knowledge does not detract from my nature.

[Shyone]

Knowledge does not detract from my nature.

I like that.

 

What's the secret handshake, btw?

[R. S. Martin]

Atheism does a terrific job of covering the reason factor as far as its relation to christianity. I have no quarrel with them in that sense. But as human beings, we have not-fully-defined emotional needs as well. No offense is meant herein to the atheists/materialists on this board, but I have to honestly ask: What is more emotionally stimulating: A picture of the atomic symbol of the American Atheists.........or the glorified image of a strong and powerful goat headed Satan holding a dagger or sword aloft ?

 

 

Only speaking for myself here, but whoever finds more inspiration to goodness in the violent image of the horned beast with the weapon you describe than in the symbol of the atom (the foundation of all material) is different from me.

 

I think straight atheists tend to over play the reason/logic factor a bit without giving due attention to the element of emotion.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "straight atheist," but I was taught on these forums that "atheist" simply means "lack of belief in any god or gods." There is no reference to emotion of any sort.

 

Many atheists are happily married with families. Obviously, they experience love and all the other human emotions that go with marriage and family building. Also, on the website of one of the major atheist groups in the US, I noticed an announcement for a collection to help Haiti. That, too, indicates human emotion--empathy and a will to help other humans based on empathy.

 

The very fact that some atheists organize into groups speaks of human emotion/feeling--the social/communal feeling or desire for human companionship. Your "straight atheist" comes across to me like an impersonal machine such as a computer or robot. While such psychopaths do exist, hopefully most of them are in institutions where they can be helped, or at least not harm themselves or others.

 

As another example, I have been told some years ago by a practicing martial artist that a person HAS to believe that they can break the 2x4, cinder block, brick or other object in order to be successful.

 

Shyone might want to correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that the human--and also other mammal--body is boosted by reserve energy (in the form of hormones, endoctrines, etc.) when called upon by emergencies such as fires and other life-threatening dangers. Likewise, when we believe we can do something, these energies are more liable to flow unhindered than when we think we can't. That is my "scientific" explanation for this other-wise mysteriously available energy in times of need, and also in cases of belief vs unbelief.

 

Emotion itself is 'magic' to me.

 

There is no magic. I've done the research. There are things we don't understand but there is no magic.

 

Emotion, imagination, fantasy and pure unbridled will to power can add up to more than we can possibly conceive! Why not use it to our own advantage ??

 

Because it can turn you into a horrible beast of vengeance the likes of which the world has seen too many. Auschwitz comes to mind, and the forced famines of China, among other atrocities brought about when these human traits were put to use.

 

There are stupid dogmatic atheists but I can be an atheist without being that way. There are kind and loving Satanists, I think--I am not so familiar with that movement, and I have no problem if a person wants to be a kind and loving Satanist. I am of the opinion that it is of more importance what kind of person we are, and how we live our lives, than what we believe about ultimate reality.

[florduh]

Discuss this seriously? Seriously?