God Tests Us?

[Abiyoyo]

WOW Abiyoyo!

 

God spoke to you! In person!

 

Since this was the word of god, how are you going to go about it being included in the bible? You know the bible is the complete word of god. If god actually spoke to you his words will need to be added post haste.

You'd better write it all down while you still have the exact words clear in your mind, as god will punish you as a blasphemer if you don't get it right!

 

Wow, won't all of Christendom be surprised..

 

I said,

Lastly, I just thought all this up in my mind, but I will claim God put it there for me to help you understand why God tests people. I will repent now

 

Sorry, no additional scripture.

 

Of course, I always wondered how the Helper is suppose to Help if He can't be audible in your mind, and feel real. (Been told this is of the devil)

[Brakeman]

Darn Abiyoyo! I wanted an autographed copy! ( I guess I didn't understand your words were hypothetical)

 

ok back on subject:

 

on your "tempted by adultery subject", the temptee was not "tested" as god would already know the answer to his effect on this man. The man could see it as a test, but it would be a test only to himself, only the man would not know the outcome.

 

If god affected the man's re-dedication, then the man had no choice in the matter. He would have been influenced by the supreme power of god. He had no free will in the matter because god wanted him to come back and he affected that outcome by whatever means that would work. For the man to have had free will, it would have had to be possible that the man would not return to his marriage, but that outcome was precluded by the fact that god does all things perfectly, he couldn't have failed at influencing the man.

[godlessgrrl]

I must admit I can rather understand the idea of a deity "testing" a follower's faith or allegiance - throwing a whole bunch of awful shit at said follower to see how devoted to god they are.

 

I used to do something similar to a few of my boyfriends, back in the day. Typically it was regarded as something manipulative and psychotic, a sign of my own immaturity and insecurity.

 

Tell me, why is it not psychotic and immature when god does it?

[Brakeman]

 

A test of your faith can come through anything. Whether you will still hang on to God in the most darkest night of your soul or not. In other words, are you believing in God when life is good and great, or are you believing in God when its so dark you cannot see. As christians, we believe God's wisdom and ways are higher than our own. Yes we can thrash and thrail and wave our arms at God in anger and demand answers to our suffering. Sometimes He may answer, sometimes He may not.

..

 

Kathlene, I think you're answering the wrong question. While you may think it's a matter of semantics, the question "why does god test us" is not the same as why are we tested by things god puts before us. You see, a test would mean that god doesn't know the outcome, and I doubt that you think that god can't see the future. You response seems to fit more that we feel tested by some action of god, but we are the only ones that wouldn't know the outcome yet, so if anyone sees it as a test, it would have to be us.

 

Has god ever answered you in a definite voice?

[Franko47]

Wow, thousands of kids dying of hunger and bad drinking water every night; but God has to "test" a comfortable, wealthy, healthy, fat cat Westerner with a little bit of "sex fantasies at the office" stuff.

 

So, rich comfortable westerners get advanced classes in self-discovery, while poor starving African kids get....

 

 

oh, wait, they don't get anything. They just fucking die.

 

 

Oh, well, all part of "The Plan".

 

 

I always thought it odd that "the Gods" or "Spirits" would consider the trivial aspects of my life to be somehow profoundly important. To honestly believe that "God" or some "Spirit" cares about whether you got laid by the cute girl next door, looked at porn, tried some Ecstasy, kept the money from a wallet you found that had ID, ran a stop sign, cheated on a test....... is this not the height of self-indulgence ? Why this need for a cosmic surveillence, including one's thoughts ? At what point does this become fucking crazy ?

 

At what point does one realize that they are obsessed with self-importance ?

 

 

THE GODS DON'T CARE ABOUT YOUR DAY TO DAY LIFE; THERE IS NO PLAN AND NOBODY IS WATCHING YOU OR TRYING TO TEACH YOU ANYTHING.

 

 

Jesus, it's so pathetic. Sorry.

[Abiyoyo]

Darn Abiyoyo! I wanted an autographed copy! ( I guess I didn't understand your words were hypothetical)

 

ok back on subject:

 

on your "tempted by adultery subject", the temptee was not "tested" as god would already know the answer to his effect on this man. The man could see it as a test, but it would be a test only to himself, only the man would not know the outcome.

 

If god affected the man's re-dedication, then the man had no choice in the matter. He would have been influenced by the supreme power of god. He had no free will in the matter because god wanted him to come back and he affected that outcome by whatever means that would work. For the man to have had free will, it would have had to be possible that the man would not return to his marriage, but that outcome was precluded by the fact that god does all things perfectly, he couldn't have failed at influencing the man.

 

Who ever said we have freewill? Did Jonah have freewill?

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

 

oh, wait, they don't get anything. They just fucking die.

 

 

Oh, well, all part of "The Plan".

 

 

 

 

None of us are guaranteed tomorrow.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Tell me, why is it not psychotic and immature when god does it?

 

So, then you are saying that tests in schools are immature? We should just go to school, learn, then automatically be transferred to the next grade, and eventually gain accredit as a 'learned' person, knowledgeable, and also be given a degree without any tests?

 

That doesn't say much for the education of someone, does it?

 

Maybe God tests people to educate them in His ways.

[Brakeman]

Darn Abiyoyo! I wanted an autographed copy! ( I guess I didn't understand your words were hypothetical)

 

ok back on subject:

 

on your "tempted by adultery subject", the temptee was not "tested" as god would already know the answer to his effect on this man. The man could see it as a test, but it would be a test only to himself, only the man would not know the outcome.

 

If god affected the man's re-dedication, then the man had no choice in the matter. He would have been influenced by the supreme power of god. He had no free will in the matter because god wanted him to come back and he affected that outcome by whatever means that would work. For the man to have had free will, it would have had to be possible that the man would not return to his marriage, but that outcome was precluded by the fact that god does all things perfectly, he couldn't have failed at influencing the man.

 

Who ever said we have freewill? Did Jonah have freewill?

 

OK.. if we don't have free will, how can we sin or be faithful? It would all be predetermined by god's magic at that point. Are you serious?

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

OK.. if we don't have free will, how can we sin or be faithful? It would all be predetermined by god's magic at that point. Are you serious?

 

Jonah sinned by disobeying God, yet God forced him to go to Nineveh. That would be sin within no freewill. Maybe we have just a choice on Earth, rather than freewill; or maybe we have freewill until God decides to commune with you? Then we are not free, but have to act within the confines of God's will.

 

'Sin lies at your door waiting to devour you, but, you shall rule over it'

 

That doesn't sound like freewill. Maybe, immortally, in the Garden, we had freewill, and when cast to Earth, our freewill left our nature, and choice between good and evil entered. We did eat of the tree of good and evil.

[mwc]

A test of your faith can come through anything. Whether you will still hang on to God in the most darkest night of your soul or not. In other words, are you believing in God when life is good and great, or are you believing in God when its so dark you cannot see. As christians, we believe God's wisdom and ways are higher than our own. Yes we can thrash and thrail and wave our arms at God in anger and demand answers to our suffering. Sometimes He may answer, sometimes He may not.

I was xian. Did you forget? I've heard this before. I've told this to others before.

 

So far all you've said is "god's ways are not our ways" and "god answers with yes, no or maybe."

 

Or perhaps your suffering has dragged on and on and on for years on end. You still rail at God why is this happening to me??

As I have recently discovered in my own life against something I have been railing over God at for years and years, I realised that I had to surrender my right to an answer to it, and lay down my right of wanting life the way I wanted it. In essence, I crucified my desires and wants. That sounds completely insane to most of you I know. However....here is the secret. I found utter peace and contentment then. I died. When you die to God, something is born. For me it has been almost immediately an answer to thing I railed over for years.

This is nice...

 

You keep saying it as if it has actual meaning.

 

That sounds like a complete illogical process. I always said God is not logical nor bound by our ideals of how life should go. It sounds like God is this big mean ogre, demanding that we give up our selves and lose ourselves in the process. No, it doesnt work that way at all. When you die to God, you find yourself, adn you find freedom. You are basically saying He is sovereign and Lord of your life. Does that make him a big meany denying you things? No. It means He wants you to trust in Him during those dark times. He knows all the answers, you do not.

Do you have any idea how self-contradictory this all is?

 

When there is a "lord," a "sovereign," they have everything. They control everything. And you? You are one of their possessions. Plain and simple. Possessions do not have freedoms. They have nothing. They control nothing. You are the clay to be molded. You are not the potter. You're looking for a safe shelf to be placed upon after your firing and glazing. That's all you keep describing. You were too weak to shape yourself and you claim all others in the same position as you and need similar "molding." Not so. It was because we were tired of being twisted about by a mad and quite inept potter that we discovered we're already granite.

 

I often cling to this verse in those dark periods of suffering.

 

I will give you the treasures of darkness,

riches stored in secret places,

so that you may know that I am the Lord...

Isaiah 45v3.

I would cling to that verse too...if I were Cyrus the Great. You know who he is right? The Messiah. That is who that verse was intended for after all.

 

1 The Lord says to the man of his selection, to Cyrus, whom I have taken by the right hand, putting down nations before him, and taking away the arms of kings; making the doors open before him, so that the ways into the towns may not be shut;

The translation I used here says "selection" but the Hebrew says "Mashiyach" which is, of course, Messiah. Most xian bibles shy away from using this term for some reason. I wonder why?

 

Anyhow, the guy frees the Jews in Babylon. Lets the ones that want to leave head on back to Judea. Pretty much rebuilds the temple and all sorts of nifty "messiah" type things. Makes sense they actually grant him the title and this would be written in relation to that.

 

Have you actually *read* most of the bible stuff you've posted up here? Really read it? In context and all?

 

During those trials and hardships of growing, I often find out more about God and do indeed find those treasures. As bad as this sounds, suffering draws me closer to God. I know for some people it has the opposite effect. They think if God is going to be God, then he should relieve it all and hurry up with the job right then and there thankyou. God will not be told what to do. He hears our cries and agony. I dont have all the answers on why there is so much suffering in the world. All I know is this wisdom I have found for me personally. I choose to run towards God in those times, not away. I had a very close friend who was a christian that was very ill for years and years. She didnt let go of God in that process, but found His comfort and presence. She surrendered to the process. She came out of it a stronger person. A changed person.

Exactly. You run towards your "god." You aren't growing up as a strong individual as a parent teaches a child but regressing back into a child. You don't want answers and you don't want solutions you simply want "comfort." Someone to kiss your scraped knee and tell you it will be better. Someone to hold you when your pet dies and let you know that they're really somewhere with other pets running, jumping and playing. Someone to shield you from the cold realities of life, and death, rather than sit you down and force you to look them in the eye and accept them for what they are.

 

Once again...I dont have all the answers for every individual type of suffering for anyone here on the forums or in the world. All I have is a worldview that I take and use in my own life to gain peace. It works.

Indeed. It is about "peace." And that's okay. But it's nothing more. It's just what "works."

 

mwc

[mwc]

'Sin lies at your door waiting to devour you, but, you shall rule over it'

 

That doesn't sound like freewill. Maybe, immortally, in the Garden, we had freewill, and when cast to Earth, our freewill left our nature, and choice between good and evil entered. We did eat of the tree of good and evil.

Kind of screwed up that quote didn't you?

Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will you not have honour? and if you do wrong, sin is waiting at the door, desiring to have you, but do not let it be your master.

Doing well is honorable. Doing wrong is sinful. Anthropomorphically speaking you don't wish to have "sin" as a master. So try your best to do what is honorable instead of what is wrong. This is free will and it's all after the whole garden episode.

 

Of course Cain chose to kill, to do what was wrong, of his own free will despite this warning.

 

As can be seen in the story no rules have really been codified up to this point (unless eat from the tree of good and evil will result in death or eating from that same tree will get this set of punishments and ejection from the garden counts...they are rather specific so I doubt it). This is a simple, almost "common knowledge," type of statement here but not a rule/law. It's just an observation that, generally, "sinning" is an easier path for most and an effort should be taken so as not to totally succumb to it. Don't be an utterly "evil" or "sinful" person. Instead choose to do well and be honorable.

 

After Cain did wrong ("sinned") that is when the punishment for that "wrong" was devised. The punishment was for the murder and not for "sin." The punishment is of no concern to us though.

 

mwc

[chefranden]

"Testing" your allegiance to Him and choosing those choices that are in His will by discernment via the Holy Spirit and the Bible.

 

Why? Doesn't he already know about your allegiance?

 

What kind of goofy system is this? I can understand the testing SEALs go through because the military doesn't make people. It has to choose among many to find a few immune from their own feelings.

 

But God makes people from scratch. He knows everything about you when he knits you together in your mothers womb. If he drops a stitch or two he should just start over and knit something he can stand to have in his wardrobe.

 

I'm going to go with Shyone's Boot Camp. The reason why God neglects the human race so much is that there is still an insurgency in heaven. God needs some troops that are absolutely obedient. So obedient that you can't tell them from robots. So he tests them on earth, "will they kill infants and children and cows on command without hesitation?" Ya! All right you guys are in! Screw some of these foreign women and make some more like you before I take you up to fight Satan and his crew.

[Ouroboros]

I get the weird impression the Christians want to redefine test.

 

They want test to mean "harden" or "strengthen" or perhaps "refine."

 

I don't find that in a dictionary. I think the analogous situation would be Boot Camp. The various tests are intended to show the soldier what they need to accomplish to be better soldiers rather than a means of assessing their strengths or weaknesses. And, in the process of this "test" they become stronger, more self-reliant and capable.

 

In that sense, which is not a standard meaning, test is not a means of assessing, but rather "putting to the test" which would suggest "tempering" (like hardening steel) rather than "evaluating".

 

Christianity, I will say again, plays havoc with the meanings of words.

Very good point.

 

I believe it could have its roots in Zoroastrianism. My understanding is that in that religion, which is older than Judaism, fire and water are considered the elements of cleansing. Water is obviously cleansing things by washing it off, but fire is cleansing in the sense that it burns away impurities in iron. The god or gods are cleansing us through fire and water. And that's also why the idea of a burning furnace in the afterlife, it was for cleansing before entering the good afterlife, not an eternal penalty. That's my view on the topic.

[ghost_warlock]

Then, It gave me an example, " A man is going to be tempted to commit adultery, and I know He will do this. As a result, I will remove my blessing from him for a time, and he will to suffer of his sins. He will come back to me and repent in exactly 33years, 2days, 5 hours, 15 minutes, and 22 seconds, and this will greatly increase His faith in me and all will be forgiven of him on Earth "

 

"If the man was not tempted by adultery, then he would have stayed the same, stagnant in his belief in Me, doubting, not really thinking of me or believing me, and also, he would have lustful thoughts of other women because his heart wants another woman to have relations with. I know this because I am Omniscient. I have tested you because I am omnipotent, and I also am testing you so that you will go the direction I know is good for you, this is because I am omnibenevolent.

 

I like this line of reasoning. Please, let's continue using it but assume that the man fails to resist the temptation (as men often do), but then his wife finds out and, grief-stricken and betrayed, kills him in his sleep before he could "come back" to god. Subsequently, he died 'in sin' and is now spending eternity in Hell.

 

Surely, being omniscient, god saw this coming, knew the man would never repent, but continued on with the test anyway. So god knowingly, and intentionally, damned the man to Hell. Benevolent?

[chefranden]

I get the weird impression the Christians want to redefine test.

 

They want test to mean "harden" or "strengthen" or perhaps "refine."

 

I don't find that in a dictionary. I think the analogous situation would be Boot Camp. The various tests are intended to show the soldier what they need to accomplish to be better soldiers rather than a means of assessing their strengths or weaknesses. And, in the process of this "test" they become stronger, more self-reliant and capable.

 

In that sense, which is not a standard meaning, test is not a means of assessing, but rather "putting to the test" which would suggest "tempering" (like hardening steel) rather than "evaluating".

 

Christianity, I will say again, plays havoc with the meanings of words.

Very good point.

 

I believe it could have its roots in Zoroastrianism. My understanding is that in that religion, which is older than Judaism, fire and water are considered the elements of cleansing. Water is obviously cleansing things by washing it off, but fire is cleansing in the sense that it burns away impurities in iron. The god or gods are cleansing us through fire and water. And that's also why the idea of a burning furnace in the afterlife, it was for cleansing before entering the good afterlife, not an eternal penalty. That's my view on the topic.

 

You have wearied the LORD with your words. "How have we wearied him?" you ask. By saying, "All who do evil are good in the eyes of the LORD, and he is pleased with them" or "Where is the God of justice?" "See, I will send my messenger, who will prepare the way before me. Then suddenly the Lord you are seeking will come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant, whom you desire, will come," says the LORD Almighty.

But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then the LORD will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness, and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to the LORD, as in days gone by, as in former years.

"So I will come near to you for judgment. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive aliens of justice, but do not fear me," says the LORD Almighty. "I the LORD do not change. So you, O descendants of Jacob, are not destroyed." (NIV)

[Shyone]

WOW Abiyoyo!

 

God spoke to you! In person!

 

Since this was the word of god, how are you going to go about it being included in the bible? You know the bible is the complete word of god. If god actually spoke to you his words will need to be added post haste.

You'd better write it all down while you still have the exact words clear in your mind, as god will punish you as a blasphemer if you don't get it right!

 

Wow, won't all of Christendom be surprised..

 

I said,

Lastly, I just thought all this up in my mind, but I will claim God put it there for me to help you understand why God tests people. I will repent now

 

Sorry, no additional scripture.

 

Of course, I always wondered how the Helper is suppose to Help if He can't be audible in your mind, and feel real. (Been told this is of the devil)

It's ironic that this is exactly how the scriptures were written. Thought in their minds, claimed that God put it there to help people understand His will.

 

You too could write sripture Abi. Joseph Smith did.

[Sconnor]

You had promised me "no conversation" Scott. Please be a man of your word. And please do us all a favor Scott, take some time for yourself and learn how to use the editing features.

 

Awwwwww; dip-shit -- I guess you conveniently forgot or ignored (which is your mode of operandi) this exception: "...except when I occasionally deem your comments loony (which I suspect is quite often) and will provide more biting assessments and mockery."

 

Remember?

 

I am a man of my word.

 

Now can you man up and address my arguments or are you going to keep your head in the sand like the cowardly christian you are?

 

--S.

[Abiyoyo]

 

 

Surely, being omniscient, god saw this coming, knew the man would never repent, but continued on with the test anyway. So god knowingly, and intentionally, damned the man to Hell. Benevolent?

 

If He was omniscient, then He wouldn't have tested him in this way, which would make him omniscient. Hypothetically that is.

[ghost_warlock]

 

 

Surely, being omniscient, god saw this coming, knew the man would never repent, but continued on with the test anyway. So god knowingly, and intentionally, damned the man to Hell. Benevolent?

 

If He was omniscient, then He wouldn't have tested him in this way, which would make him omniscient. Hypothetically that is.

 

Which essentially leaves us in a situation where, if we can find one Christian who sins and then dies before being able to repent, we'll have disproven either god's omniscience or benevolence.

 

Or, what about Christian apostasy? What if god tests someone and the result is the person completely and permanently losing their faith? Permanent apostates are, of course, damned to Hell. It seems to follow that the mere existence of Christian apostates would disprove god's testing of humans, his benevolence, or his omniscience.

[Dagan]

Every one of us has a choice in life on how to react to anything that goes on around us. We can choose to get angry and bitter, or turn towards God to find comfort and healing.

 

A test of your faith can come through anything. Whether you will still hang on to God in the most darkest night of your soul or not. In other words, are you believing in God when life is good and great, or are you believing in God when its so dark you cannot see. As christians, we believe God's wisdom and ways are higher than our own. Yes we can thrash and thrail and wave our arms at God in anger and demand answers to our suffering. Sometimes He may answer, sometimes He may not.

 

...

 

As I have recently discovered in my own life against something I have been railing over God at for years and years, I realised that I had to surrender my right to an answer to it, and lay down my right of wanting life the way I wanted it. In essence, I crucified my desires and wants. That sounds completely insane to most of you I know. However....here is the secret. I found utter peace and contentment then. I died. When you die to God, something is born. For me it has been almost immediately an answer to thing I railed over for years.

 

...

 

Once again...I dont have all the answers for every individual type of suffering for anyone here on the forums or in the world. All I have is a worldview that I take and use in my own life to gain peace. It works.

 

Thanks, Kathlene, for posting your thoughtful, compassionate comments. I know exactly what you mean, I used to believe the same way you describe here.

 

But you know what? The "testing" didn't stop. I "died" to self over and over and over again, crucifying my desires and wants in elaborate rituals in my mind, and through prayer and weeping and "getting right with God." I survived lots of big tests, my faith stronger each time. Little ones, too. But there were always more.

 

Finally I realized I wasn't being tested. I wasn't God's lab rat. I wasn't really being led by the Holy Spirit into submerging my own sinful will so I could be filled with God's will.

 

I was practicing self-delusion, subverting my own common sense to create a false personality based on someone else's interpretation of what Jesus said.

 

Some in-depth study of the bible -- who wrote it, why, for who, in what context -- destroyed any faith I had in that book as a source of anything holy. I also saw that everyone has a slightly different interpretation of what it means to be a "Christ-follower." Who's right? Who decides who's right? I couldn't decide anymore.

 

Now I realize that those tests weren't tests designed for me. They were just life. I realize no one has the "right" interpretation of what Jesus said because no one really knows what he said. And it doesn't really matter anyway.

 

It's a slow process, but it's been freeing to realize that everything that happens is not about me. How arrogant I was! Now I see that difficult things that happen are just part of life. And I have it pretty good here. Sure, it's hard sometimes, but I have to remember there are people a lot worse off than me. And I want to help them, because I know God won't do it.

[Sconnor]

And please do us all a favor Scott, take some time for yourself and learn how to use the editing features.

 

Oh that's rich -- coming from the guy who's soooo computer savvy.

 

My computer ate my homework. Yeah, blame it on the computer you deluded hypocrite!

 

End3 admitted in another post, "Just spent an hour replying to then have the computer foobarr it. I will try again this evening."

 

I mean really, do you ever get tired of putting you foot in your mouth?

 

--S.

[Sconnor]

 

I always said God is not logical nor bound by our ideals of how life should go.

 

Holy shit! let's explore this scramble-brain logic a little more closely -- shall we?

 

Kathleen asserts God is not logical...

 

Isn't it curious that Kathleen can vomit up several paragraphs about god and suffering, where she delusionally "knows" god's attributes and "knows" how he works in our life, where she can jump back and forth, contending when god is illogical or logical when it suits her needs?

 

How exactly do you know how god supposedly uses suffering or trials and fires in our lives?

 

How exactly did you acquire this information?

 

I'm point blank, accusing you of pulling ALL this bullshit out of your ass just so you can pretend you feel good.

 

Again I say:

 

You do NOT know the will and character of god.

 

You do NOT have any objective evidence (which you readily admit) for ANY of your extraordinary christian/god claims.

 

You do NOT possess any special knowledge of god, his plan or his morals.

 

You simply attributed your own deluded thoughts and stunted imagination to an imaginary deity.

 

My position is IF a living god exists no one knows the will and/or character of god (good or bad).

 

The only way christians think they "know" the will and character of god is by their idiosyncratic and SELECTIVE interpretation of spurious scripture, coupled with stunted speculative imagination.

 

I humbly submit, IF god exists, I do NOT know god; god is unknowable and christians sure as shit don't know god either!

 

Prove me wrong Kathleen.

 

--S.

[Guest end3]

You had promised me "no conversation" Scott. Please be a man of your word. And please do us all a favor Scott, take some time for yourself and learn how to use the editing features.

 

Awwwwww; dip-shit -- I guess you conveniently forgot or ignored (which is your mode of operandi) this exception: "...except when I occasionally deem your comments loony (which I suspect is quite often) and will provide more biting assessments and mockery."

 

Remember?

 

I am a man of my word.

 

Now can you man up and address my arguments or are you going to keep your head in the sand like the cowardly christian you are?

 

--S.

 

I was referencing your subsequent post which apparently had no credibility....the one that stated "no discussion for you". I was hoping it to be the truth in lieu of placing you on "ignore". I have yet to do that with anyone, but you are providing near sufficient temptation.

 

Why should I accept your version of the truth Scott? Let's take your "man up" definition for example, that obviously includes verbally abusing women like Kathlene.

[Guest end3]

Why? Doesn't he already know about your allegiance?

I don't honestly know Chef....I have played with the question, "if God gives me free will", then if it were absolute free will, would He have kept any knowing?

 

I'm going to go with Shyone's Boot Camp. The reason why God neglects the human race so much is that there is still an insurgency in heaven. God needs some troops that are absolutely obedient. So obedient that you can't tell them from robots. So he tests them on earth, "will they kill infants and children and cows on command without hesitation?" Ya! All right you guys are in! Screw some of these foreign women and make some more like you before I take you up to fight Satan and his crew.

 

The reason He seemingly "neglects" is that He gave humanity everthing, including His Son, and they still reject Him. And still He has given warning of the consequences.

 

And the children thing.....just the other day here, everyone was lobbying for "if you were exposed to Christianity as a child, then you are highly probable to become a Christian" instead of anything other....almost 100% probablility as Vigil stated. Now, you are saying that it doesn't work for those children raised with an "evil" background? And that "truth" my friend is by a natural scientific observation.