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Goodbye Jesus

God Tests Us?


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You know that actors get to read the script -- right? Alan Watts described God as a bored fellow with not much to do but stare at nothing for 10,000 years. So God creates the world for a little drama, a little fun as it were. But this is a Hindu sort of god that plays all the parts himself, and has made himself forget that this is what he is

Damnit...you beat me to it. ;)

 

You forgot that the word person came from the drama. The word persona means a "through sound". It was a mask worn by the actors that had a small megaphone on the end to amplify the voices. So, in Alan's words to be a real person is to "be a genuine fake." :D

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These passages sum up the purpose for tests quite nicely Deut.13:3-4 "... The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. "
So you are suggesting that the original poster was correct: God was supposedly testing to find out something he should have already known - because he's omniscient.So God isn't omniscient.I knew that.
Of course God is omniscient, no one else is. We're slow,so He's letting us understand through experience what He knew all along. Someone once said that the world is a stage and we are the actors, so true. The bible says :1 Corinthians 4:9For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. In the margin in the bible spectale means theatre. Unfallen beings are watching us cuz we are virtual atheists.BTW tnks for helping with the fonts :)
I meant that if he's omniscient, he wouldn't need to test us. He would omnisciently know what the test results would be.From your reading of the bible, do you think that someone could hide from an omniscient being?

 

 

These passages sum up the purpose for tests quite nicely Deut.13:3-4 "... The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him. "
So you are suggesting that the original poster was correct: God was supposedly testing to find out something he should have already known - because he's omniscient.So God isn't omniscient.I knew that.
Of course God is omniscient, no one else is. We're slow,so He's letting us understand through experience what He knew all along. Someone once said that the world is a stage and we are the actors, so true. The bible says :1 Corinthians 4:9For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. In the margin in the bible spectale means theatre. Unfallen beings are watching us cuz we are virtual atheists.BTW tnks for helping with the fonts :)
You know that actors get to read the script -- right? Alan Watts described God as a bored fellow with not much to do but stare at nothing for 10,000 years. So God creates the world for a little drama, a little fun as it were. But this is a Hindu sort of god that plays all the parts himself, and has made himself forget that this is what he is doing. The Hebrew God is more of a sick bastard, because he is doing it to people. Sort of like raising chickens for cock fights. "I want you to know I love you, therefore I break your nose and starve your kids. Now lets give us big hug!" Odd thing is that it works. Lots of fools give the SOB a hug.

 

 

 

@ shyone

 

"I meant that if he's omniscient, he wouldn't need to test us. He would omnisciently know what

the test results would be."

 

Oh, let me give an ANALOGY here OK? Let's PRETEND that President Obama is omniscient, he can read the minds of everyone but no one else can read minds. Suddenly, VP Biden starts accusing Obama of all sorts of injustices, not to his face mind you. Biden is going about congress telling everyone that the President is capricious and finally those rumors leak to the public.Obama knew that Biden would do what he's doing but he permits him to carry on anyway.Obama knows that Biden's accusations are totally unfounded but what do you think everyone else WHO ARE NOT OMNISCIENT, would think if Biden were to suddenly turn up dead or missing or if Obama were to execute Biden right in front of everyone?

People would not want to serve Obama out of loyalty but because of " :-S; We'd better just do what he tells us or else ... >_<! "

Obama sets the rules (cf.God's rules would be the ten commandments) and the rules are to protect each individual. Obama let Biden try out a new system of government (The devil does not think that God's rules should be followed) because of this new system of government it caused a lot of unhappiness amongst the people of the US.Obama's proponents are loyal and kind and loving and the more kind they are the more mean spirited and angry Biden's proponents become (cf. 1 John3:12

 

Obama's proponents are paccivists or are supposed to be passivists, they just want everyone to love each other and be happy and their only weapon is the truth and prayer & NOT weapons and violence etc.(cf. people should NOT fight)

After this experiment, finite people with very limited knowledge realize that Obama's rules were best after all. (In God's case, the redeemed would say Revelation15:3 : " ... just and true are thy ways, thou King of saints.")

...................

 

"From your reading of the bible, do you think that someone could hide from an omniscient being?"

Nope, one CANNOT hide from God.He's aware of everyone and everything, "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God?";

 

Ps.139:7-12; Jer23:23-24;

Heb.4:13;Acts17:24-28.

 

 

To reiterate, the above was just an analogy, I KNOW Obama is not omniscient, and my analogy had nothing to do with politics OK?

 

 

So tests are to help sanctify us and to also in order to vindicate God's character.

 

***************************************************************************************************************

 

 

@ chefranden

"You know that actors get to read the script -- right?"

:D Well, God operates somewhat differently from earthlings or created beings.The script is there but God designed it that only the sincere will understand it --- Matthew 11:25 (King James Version) "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

God designed the script that way in order to weed out timeservers, He can only allow people to share eternity with Him who love Him completely. He has His elect. God's elect KNOWS how the play will end; whilst the devil may seem to be winning the battle, he WILL lose the war.( cf Rev. 21 & 22)

 

 

"Alan Watts described God as a bored fellow with not much to do but stare at nothing for 10,000 years. So God creates the world for a little drama, a little fun as it were."

lol. When I was secular and I started looking at the bible I had come to the same conclusion, I basically said to myself I think God was bored that's why he allows all the mess in this world but I was UTTERLY wrong :)

 

 

"The Hebrew God is more of a sick bastard, because he is doing it to people."

Hey, hey, hey! you're dissin' my God, man. But nah, Jesus said that it's the devil that's the cause of all of the mess --- The parable of the wheat and the tares --

 

God said "An enemy hath done this." Matthew 13:28; N.B. the enemy is the devil.

 

"Sort of like raising chickens for cock fights. "I want you to know I love you, therefore I break your nose and starve your kids. Now lets give us big hug!" Odd thing is that it works. Lots of fools give the SOB a hug."

Ugh, boy oh boy, you certainly misconstrued God's intentions so here's a bit of a challenge, see here :

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So tests are to help sanctify us and to also in order to vindicate God's character.

Sorry for butting in, but let me see if I understand you correctly, God is giving us trials, not to test our faith, but for us to grow. Right?

 

Let's say someone is given a trial and he fails. He gives up, and curse God, etc, yada, yada (evil incarnate is now born...) God knew about this beforehand. Right? God knew that the guy would give up. And God was okay with that. The guy will go to Hell, and God knew that already from start. So it is good, in the whole scheme of things, that some (or most) people go to Hell because it is ultimately God's will.

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I see nothing but the classic crap defences here:

 

(I paraphrase) "God's ways are not our ways..." "Only the true Christians will see and understand..." "The devil is responsible for evil, not God..." "You're taking it out of context."

 

Come up with some new material, we've seen this before and these answers are shabby, tired old cop-outs.

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'Thumbelina' I find your CAPITALIZING of certain WORDS to be more than a little condescending. Also this notion that we don't have any idea of what's in the bible is pretty condescending too.

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Here's a question I just thought of: why does the "Lord's prayer" contain the phrase "Lead us not into temptation"?

 

Doesn't this suggest that God actively part of tempting his people?

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Here's a question I just thought of: why does the "Lord's prayer" contain the phrase "Lead us not into temptation"?

 

Doesn't this suggest that God actively part of tempting his people?

 

But of course!

 

God is the ultimate jealous lover, as portrayed in the Old Testament and in the love songs to Jesus Christians like to sing.

 

God sets up his lover to fail, and then beats the crap out of her when she does and blames her. And when she doesn't fail, life is normal. Isn't it funny how the good life under God is the same as the good life without God?

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I believe god testing us is simply an excuse for bad things happening to us. I never could understand how a loving god could test us to see how we would respond to bad situations. I wouldn't do that to my kids. My goal is to teach them to make responsible decisions, not by causing them exposure to horrible situations, but by giving them freedoms and allowing them to make decisions according to their age and maturing level. That creates situations where they usually succeed. Gods test just hurt us and make us doubt out worth to god. What does that teach us? Nothing. Basically what it does is to teach us to put on this brave face in public, and force us to say all the "right" things to appear spiritually mature, we love god, blah, blah.

 

Basically, it justs an explanation as to why bad things happen to good people. We need to understand bad things, so our minds make up this "test" thing. And of course, if we tell others that god is testing us, it shows how mature and pious we are and how holy. It's just garbage. Knowing the bible is nothing, then all the verses carry no weight at all.

 

The question, why are some, the poor, people in third world countries, constantly "tested" by god, and others, the rich, powerful, etc, are never tested. Just stupid excuses to keep those of us who are discouraged, quiet.

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Life sucks. Its hard, its gruelling, its painful and it can sap the living daylights out of you. I don't think Jesus ever told his followers any different. I think God tells us, yeah crap will happen to you, now if you go through that crap I will be with you in it, to guide you and lead you, just hold on to me. Through that process of trusting in God, somehow we grow as humans in character and strength. Im still in two minds of whether God actually tests us, or he just allows us to go through stuff. When I think of the Israelites, he does mention sending warring countries against them to discipline them for their disobedience and rebelliousness. There is a passage in the New Testament that says God discipline's his children like a father does, and we reap peace and righteousness because we have been trained by it. I can certainly see that principle with my own child. He does something wrong, then reaps the consequences of it, ergo he grows and learns. It is my duty as a parent to not let him get away with whatever the hell he wants, because we live in a society with accepted norms of behaviour. I liken my path with God to be on similar terms.

 

So does he test us or allow us to go through stuff. Some of that stuff is our own poor choices, and we reap the consequences of it. Some of it is just pure bad crap that we have no control over. When I go through that sort of stuff in life, in that darkness I trust in God. The path I go on isnt always the one I would comfortably choose, but when I get out of it, and look back, I can say yeah I got through it. Phew.

 

Interestingly enough, I have sometimes had God tell me before I go through bad stuff to just hang on to him and trust him in it, because he knows the end and He has the victory. Its dark, scary, and out of my depth, but when I do trust him, it unfolds and I do see the results. Meh.

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@ chefranden

"You know that actors get to read the script -- right?"

:D Well, God operates somewhat differently from earthlings or created beings.The script is there but God designed it that only the sincere will understand it --- Matthew 11:25 (King James Version) "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

God designed the script that way in order to weed out timeservers, He can only allow people to share eternity with Him who love Him completely. He has His elect. God's elect KNOWS how the play will end; whilst the devil may seem to be winning the battle, he WILL lose the war.( cf Rev. 21 & 22)

 

So would you say the someone that started out life as a believer (age of 3 as early as I can remember) lived the church life, went to bible college, read the bible twice a year, read the bible in Greek and Hebrew, learned how to pray constantly, became a preacher, became a church planter, tried to raise a family on 12-16 thousand a year so the church could afford me, and so forth and so on was wise and prudent so that God hid himself from me -- even when I begged him in agony to restore my faith? Well if that is what he was doing instead of just not existing, then fuck him and the donkey he rode in on.

 

:grin: Well as it turned out God hid from me just long enough to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that he is non-existent. I'm sure he must have seen that coming.

 

I'm a little miffed at your condescending "timeserver" BS. But then you probably think that someone spending 40 + years in the Lord would never loose his faith. Therefore he just pretended for all those years just to fool aGod that he didn't really "love completely". :Doh:

 

 

"Alan Watts described God as a bored fellow with not much to do but stare at nothing for 10,000 years. So God creates the world for a little drama, a little fun as it were."

lol. When I was secular and I started looking at the bible I had come to the same conclusion, I basically said to myself I think God was bored that's why he allows all the mess in this world but I was UTTERLY wrong :)

 

Well you were wrong then too. God allows this mess, because he isn't there to disallow it.

 

 

"The Hebrew God is more of a sick bastard, because he is doing it to people."

Hey, hey, hey! you're dissin' my God, man. But nah, Jesus said that it's the devil that's the cause of all of the mess --- The parable of the wheat and the tares --

 

God said "An enemy hath done this." Matthew 13:28; N.B. the enemy is the devil.

 

So? Can't he stand up for himself? As it is written: But Joash replied to the hostile crowd around him, "Are you going to plead Baal's God's cause? Are you trying to save him? Whoever fights for him shall be put to death by morning! If Baal God really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar." You aren't the only one that can quote scripture.

 

So I'm a tare then? :scratch: So what am I to make of that? If I am I didn't sow me. That would be between God and his enemy. But the parable doesn't fit because I'm not trying to pretend I'm wheat, and I wasn't trying to pretend when I was a believer, though I fully admit that I was only fooling myself -- but then so are you.

 

 

 

"Sort of like raising chickens for cock fights. "I want you to know I love you, therefore I break your nose and starve your kids. Now lets give us big hug!" Odd thing is that it works. Lots of fools give the SOB a hug."

Ugh, boy oh boy, you certainly misconstrued God's intentions so here's a bit of a challenge, see here :

 

I have? :twitch: Being non-existent God doesn't have any intentions. He's a character made up to scare the little ones into behaving. He has to be an ogre, or he wouldn't serve his purpose.

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Oh, let me give an ANALOGY here OK? Let's PRETEND that President Obama is omniscient...

:lmao:

 

You are actually using a representative democracy to make an analogy to a monarchy? :lmao:

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So tests are to help sanctify us and to also in order to vindicate God's character.

Sorry for butting in, but let me see if I understand you correctly, God is giving us trials, not to test our faith, but for us to grow. Right?

 

Let's say someone is given a trial and he fails. He gives up, and curse God, etc, yada, yada (evil incarnate is now born...) God knew about this beforehand. Right? God knew that the guy would give up. And God was okay with that. The guy will go to Hell, and God knew that already from start. So it is good, in the whole scheme of things, that some (or most) people go to Hell because it is ultimately God's will.

 

 

@ Ouroboros

 

 

"Sorry for butting in, ..."

You can "butt" in any time you want :)

 

"but let me see if I understand you correctly, God is giving us trials, not to test our faith, but for us to grow. Right?"

 

The testing of our faith is supposed to cause us to grow and if someone turns away from God then that's their choice cuz God would not give us more than we could bear, 1 Corinthians 10:13

James 1:12

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

Hebrews 12:7

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

 

 

"Let's say someone is given a trial and he fails. He gives up, and curse God, etc, yada, yada (evil incarnate is now born...) God knew about this beforehand. Right? God knew that the guy would give up. And God was okay with that. The guy will go to Hell, and God knew that already from start. So it is good, in the whole scheme of things, that some (or most) people go to Hell because it is ultimately God's will. "

 

 

God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.2 Peter 3:9 ; 2 Corinthians 5:14- 16 ;

1 Corinthians 15:22. God owns us twice over.

 

People who end up in hell are without excuse :

Acts 14:15-17;

Rom.1:20

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God owns us twice over.

 

Nobody, or no thing, owns me.

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@ chefranden

"You know that actors get to read the script -- right?"

:D Well, God operates somewhat differently from earthlings or created beings.The script is there but God designed it that only the sincere will understand it --- Matthew 11:25 (King James Version) "At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes."

God designed the script that way in order to weed out timeservers, He can only allow people to share eternity with Him who love Him completely. He has His elect. God's elect KNOWS how the play will end; whilst the devil may seem to be winning the battle, he WILL lose the war.( cf Rev. 21 & 22)

 

So would you say the someone that started out life as a believer (age of 3 as early as I can remember) lived the church life, went to bible college, read the bible twice a year, read the bible in Greek and Hebrew, learned how to pray constantly, became a preacher, became a church planter, tried to raise a family on 12-16 thousand a year so the church could afford me, and so forth and so on was wise and prudent so that God hid himself from me -- even when I begged him in agony to restore my faith? Well if that is what he was doing instead of just not existing, then fuck him and the donkey he rode in on.

 

Well as it turned out God hid from me just long enough to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that he is non-existent. I'm sure he must have seen that coming.

 

I'm a little miffed at your condescending "timeserver" BS. But then you probably think that someone spending 40 + years in the Lord would never loose his faith. Therefore he just pretended for all those years just to fool aGod that he didn't really "love completely".

 

 

"Alan Watts described God as a bored fellow with not much to do but stare at nothing for 10,000 years. So God creates the world for a little drama, a little fun as it were."

 

 

 

lol. When I was secular and I started looking at the bible I had come to the same conclusion, I basically said to myself I think God was bored that's why he allows all the mess in this world but I was UTTERLY wrong :)

 

Well you were wrong then too. God allows this mess, because he isn't there to disallow it.

 

 

"The Hebrew God is more of a sick bastard, because he is doing it to people."

Hey, hey, hey! you're dissin' my God, man. But nah, Jesus said that it's the devil that's the cause of all of the mess --- The parable of the wheat and the tares --

 

God said "An enemy hath done this." Matthew 13:28; N.B. the enemy is the devil.

 

So? Can't he stand up for himself? As it is written: But Joash replied to the hostile crowd around him, "Are you going to plead Baal's God's cause? Are you trying to save him? Whoever fights for him shall be put to death by morning! If Baal God really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar." You aren't the only one that can quote scripture.

 

So I'm a tare then? :scratch: So what am I to make of that? If I am I didn't sow me. That would be between God and his enemy. But the parable doesn't fit because I'm not trying to pretend I'm wheat, and I wasn't trying to pretend when I was a believer, though I fully admit that I was only fooling myself -- but then so are you.

 

 

 

"Sort of like raising chickens for cock fights. "I want you to know I love you, therefore I break your nose and starve your kids. Now lets give us big hug!" Odd thing is that it works. Lots of fools give the SOB a hug."

Ugh, boy oh boy, you certainly misconstrued God's intentions so here's a bit of a challenge, see here :

 

I have? :twitch: Being non-existent God doesn't have any intentions. He's a character made up to scare the little ones into behaving. He has to be an ogre, or he wouldn't serve his purpose.

 

 

@ chefranden

 

 

"So would you say the someone that started out life as a believer (age of 3 as early as I can remember) lived the church life, went to bible college, read the bible twice a year, read the bible in Greek and Hebrew, learned how to pray constantly, became a preacher, became a church planter, tried to raise a family on 12-16 thousand a year so the church could afford me, and so forth and so on was wise and prudent so that God hid himself from me -- even when I begged him in agony to restore my faith? Well if that is what he was doing instead of just not existing, then fuck him and the donkey he rode in on.

 

Well as it turned out God hid from me just long enough to convince me beyond a reasonable doubt that he is non-existent. I'm sure he must have seen that coming."

 

"But then you probably think that someone spending 40 + years in the Lord would never loose his faith. Therefore he just pretended for all those years just to fool aGod that he didn't really "love completely".

 

Awwwwww, I'm gonna be pretty frank here OK?

It is written : Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Ya have to endure till the end.

2 Timothy 4:7-8. It ain't over till the fat lady sings, till you croak, or till probation ends. You still have hope.

 

 

 

"I'm a little miffed at your condescending "timeserver" BS."

Sorry, I really don't want you to be "miffed" but I gotta speak the truth. I did not know of your background so I guess I did come across as being indelicate; d'you forgive me? I can be tactless, so if I am I'm sure you'll set me straight :)

 

 

 

 

 

"Alan Watts described God as a bored fellow with not much to do but stare at nothing for 10,000 years. So God creates the world for a little drama, a little fun as it were."lol. When I was secular and I started looking at the bible I had come to the same conclusion, I basically said to myself I think God was bored that's why he allows all the mess in this world but I was UTTERLY wrong :)

 

Well you were wrong then too. God allows this mess, because he isn't there to disallow it. "

 

Hmph, whatever!

 

 

 

 

 

"The Hebrew God is more of a sick bastard, because he is doing it to people." Hey, hey, hey! you're dissin' my God, man. But nah, Jesus said that it's the devil that's the cause of all of the mess --- The parable of the wheat and the tares --

God said "An enemy hath done this." Matthew 13:28; N.B. the enemy is the devil.

 

 

So? Can't he stand up for himself? As it is written: But Joash replied to the hostile crowd around him, "Are you going to plead Baal's God's cause? Are you trying to save him? Whoever fights for him shall be put to death by morning! If Baal God really is a god, he can defend himself when someone breaks down his altar." You aren't the only one that can quote scripture."

 

N.B.Text without context, is a pretext.

God does not need us!! The fact that He invites us to engage in a relationship with Him is what makes Him so utterly awesome.

God likens His followers to a bride, when you love someone you talk about them and if someone sullies their reputation, you want to defend 'em. God has feelings and we do to cuz we're made in His image, though that image has been terribly marred by sin.

 

"So I'm a tare then? So what am I to make of that? If I am I didn't sow me. That would be between God and his enemy. "

Uh, um, you're displaying tare-like characteristics with your lack of faith.

"But the parable doesn't fit because ..."

Sorry, I should have said "The parable of the sower" that's the one i should have cited Matt13:1-23

Matt.13: 36-43 explains it :( If anyone persists in staying apart from God they will untimately be destroyed. The tares are the children of the wicked one because apart from God there is nothing : Matthew 12:30

 

"I'm not trying to pretend I'm wheat,"

If you're not a wheat then you're a tare.

 

"... and I wasn't trying to pretend when I was a believer, though I fully admit that I was only fooling myself --

 

"but then so are you."

 

Ah my friend, I have to pray the prayer of David ( Psalm 139:24 And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.) everyday cuz of the sinful nature that I/we all have. God encourages me, 2 years ago, I was going through a time of discouragement and I had told the Lord to give up on me cuz I'm no good and He pursued me at that same moment.

He has a nice sense of humor cuz He used an ex atheist to do it too. There had been times when I did not spend time with Him but He's not dissuaded by my reticence; He's nuts about me!

Now,now, don't be getting jealous OK? He's nuts about you to, can't wait to show you off to the Father if you accept His invite; He's nuts about the 6.8 billion and counting, of us :)

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

"Sort of like raising chickens for cock fights. "I want you to know I love you, therefore I break your nose and starve your kids. Now lets give us big hug!" Odd thing is that it works. Lots of fools give the SOB a hug."

Ugh, boy oh boy, you certainly misconstrued God's intentions so here's a bit of a challenge, see here :

"I have? "

Yes.

 

"Being non-existent God doesn't have any intentions. He's a character made up to scare the little ones into behaving. He has to be an ogre, or he wouldn't serve his purpose."

Eh, stop it!

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Here's a question I just thought of: why does the "Lord's prayer" contain the phrase "Lead us not into temptation"?

 

Doesn't this suggest that God actively part of tempting his people?

 

Nope! All of us are born with Adam's sinful nature, we have a proclivity to sin/selfishness. God does not violate free will so He's telling us to give Him permission to work in our lives. He admonishes us to pray out loud at times because beings who cannot read our hearts/minds could see us communicating with Him.

 

 

 

 

Here's an Ex-atheist's take -which is the same as God's - on "And Lead Us Not Into Temptation":

"This particular petition is the one that is most misunderstood. At a glance, it almost seems as though we're begging God not to tempt us. "Please, Lord, we know you don't want to tempt us. Yet if I don't ask you not to tempt me, you're going to tempt me." That's a really poor translation. In fact, James 1:13 says, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

 

We're not pleading, "Lord, please don't tempt me." So what is this really saying? Well, because we are naturally prone to walk toward temptation, we're asking God to lead us away from it. Translated more precisely, the prayer would go more like this: "Lead us away from our natural bent to temptation."

 

Do we need to pray that prayer? You bet! We are prone to playing too close to the edge. One minister said that when the Lord says to flee temptation, we often crawl away hoping it catches up with us. It's like gravity inside our hearts, pulling us toward sin. So we have to plead with God to help us resist that force.

 

The devil likes it when we crawl, because it's easier to catch us with those little compromises. The convicted spy Aldrich Ames said that he didn't wake up one day and say, "I think I'm going to be a spy. I think I'm going to turn everything over to the Russians for money." One day, very innocuously, he met a Russian who asked, "Could you give me a phone directory? I'll give you a lot of money." It was just a phone directory, but then little by little, he gave them more and more until one day he sold them nuclear secrets. This is how the devil works with temptation--little compromises. King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, murdered Uriah, and lied to his people. And it began with a small, lingering, lustful look. We should pray, "Lord, lead me away from even the little things, because that's how the big things start." "

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"but let me see if I understand you correctly, God is giving us trials, not to test our faith, but for us to grow. Right?"

 

The testing of our faith is supposed to cause us to grow and if someone turns away from God then that's their choice cuz God would not give us more than we could bear, 1 Corinthians 10:13

 

James 1:12

Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

 

Hebrews 12:7

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But that the problem, right there.

 

If people "give up," it means that God (knowingly) gave them something they gave up on. God knew already that they would give up. He has knowledge about the future. And he gave them this challenge/test anyway, knowing that they would give up. So how can God give nothing more than we can handle at the same time as he gives us something that he knows we will bail out on? God must have some extreme internal turmoil getting those pieces together.

 

Do you understand what the problem is here?

 

Think of it this way.

 

You know your kid can solve a math problem. And you say you will never give your child a math problem more difficult than she can handle. Then you give her the task of solving the problem of "p v np". She can't, and you knew it. And yet you keep on claiming that you would never give her a more difficult problem than she could handle.

 

"Let's say someone is given a trial and he fails. He gives up, and curse God, etc, yada, yada (evil incarnate is now born...) God knew about this beforehand. Right? God knew that the guy would give up. And God was okay with that. The guy will go to Hell, and God knew that already from start. So it is good, in the whole scheme of things, that some (or most) people go to Hell because it is ultimately God's will. "

 

 

God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.2 Peter 3:9 ; 2 Corinthians 5:14- 16 ;

1 Corinthians 15:22. God owns us twice over.

But God knew it already. So God intentionally gave someone something that he already knew the person would do. God already knew the person wouldn't repent. But God put them into a test anyway, to make them fall (which he knew already would happen). Nothing escapes God's knowledge.

 

 

People who end up in hell are without excuse :

Acts 14:15-17;

Rom.1:20

That's why Christianity represents a belief in a very evil and contradictory God.

 

10 billion people will go to Hell. And only, perhaps, 10 million people will go to Heaven.

 

10,000,000 vs 10,000,000,000

 

Do the math. A thousand times more people will fill Hell, for eternity. And God knew it. And it was God's plan.

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"This particular petition is the one that is most misunderstood. At a glance, it almost seems as though we're begging God not to tempt us. "Please, Lord, we know you don't want to tempt us. Yet if I don't ask you not to tempt me, you're going to tempt me." That's a really poor translation. In fact, James 1:13 says, "Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."

 

We're not pleading, "Lord, please don't tempt me." So what is this really saying? Well, because we are naturally prone to walk toward temptation, we're asking God to lead us away from it. Translated more precisely, the prayer would go more like this: "Lead us away from our natural bent to temptation."

 

Do we need to pray that prayer? You bet! We are prone to playing too close to the edge. One minister said that when the Lord says to flee temptation, we often crawl away hoping it catches up with us. It's like gravity inside our hearts, pulling us toward sin. So we have to plead with God to help us resist that force.

 

I see.

 

So basically it's a prayer to God to protect us from temptations.

 

Then why does God put people in temptations anyway? The prayer is just wishful thinking then. God will do whatever he wants. Let you be tempted (not over your ability), and yet he doesn't tempt you, and then you pray to be protected, but God won't.

 

What a mess!!!

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...is God...

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Nope! All of us are born with Adam's sinful nature, we have a proclivity to sin/selfishness.

The one and only lesson you need here that will stop you from being arrogant is this:

 

This is your belief, not a fact.

 

There. You can come down off your preaching high horse now.

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...is God...

...in pradas...

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He has a nice sense of humor cuz He used an ex atheist to do it too. There had been times when I did not spend time with Him but He's not dissuaded by my reticence; He's nuts about me!

Now,now, don't be getting jealous OK? He's nuts about you to, can't wait to show you off to the Father if you accept His invite; He's nuts about the 6.8 billion and counting, of us :)

What makes you think people outside of your belief system needs a go-between between them and God? Your belief? Your belief is just that. It applies to you and your group only.

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He's nuts about you to

 

It'd be a lot more useful if you knew any hot babes who were nuts about me.

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Nope! All of us are born with Adam's sinful nature, we have a proclivity to sin/selfishness.

The one and only lesson you need here that will stop you from being arrogant is this:

 

This is your belief, not a fact.

 

There. You can come down off your preaching high horse now.

 

Your dealing with absolute blind faith here, or equally likely a mountain of doubts held up by a facade of blind faith. You should know better than to think she could come down off her high horse.

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