My Dilemma

[iZa3u5]

So I want to get other former Christians opinions on this little dilemma I have in my head. I was a Christian for about 19 years but a about 1.5 years ago my faith slowly started dying and now I am an atheist. My mother remains very religious and needless to say the news of my lack of faith was a large blow to her.

 

I realize that the older I get and once I have my own family, the less interaction I will have with her. We have no other family in this country. I would love to be able to fully explain my reasons for not believing to my mother to help her break free from religion (it has caused her great harm, though she will not admit it freely). Mostly I just want to help her get the imagine out of her mind that her son will one day burn in hell, I can't imagine this gives her comfort. My problem arises when I realize that if my mother did not have religion, she would have little to no social interaction. When I get older, and when she retires, that will be all she has left. And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away. I would rather watch my mother become more relgious then watch her slowly lose her mind from lack of contact with other humans (personally I would rather have neither happen).

 

I really just want to know what other people think about this or if others have gone through similar situations. Anyways I'm really happy I found this site, and I'm glad there are so many people I can relate to despite not knowing a single face.

[Shyone]

So I want to get other former Christians opinions on this little dilemma I have in my head. I was a Christian for about 19 years but a about 1.5 years ago my faith slowly started dying and now I am an atheist. My mother remains very religious and needless to say the news of my lack of faith was a large blow to her.

 

I realize that the older I get and once I have my own family, the less interaction I will have with her. We have no other family in this country. I would love to be able to fully explain my reasons for not believing to my mother to help her break free from religion (it has caused her great harm, though she will not admit it freely). Mostly I just want to help her get the imagine out of her mind that her son will one day burn in hell, I can't imagine this gives her comfort. My problem arises when I realize that if my mother did not have religion, she would have little to no social interaction. When I get older, and when she retires, that will be all she has left. And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away. I would rather watch my mother become more relgious then watch her slowly lose her mind from lack of contact with other humans (personally I would rather have neither happen).

 

I really just want to know what other people think about this or if others have gone through similar situations. Anyways I'm really happy I found this site, and I'm glad there are so many people I can relate to despite not knowing a single face.

Welcome to the site. We may not have all the answers, but we know what it's like to be surrounded by people that believe in something you don't.

 

My mother died a believer. I don't know that I didn't believe when she died, but I was fading perhaps. My father never knew I became an atheist. I saw no reason to tell him.

 

The only really important thing, in my opinion, is to be true to yourself. You can only live your life.

 

After considerable thought, I decided that Pascal's wager went another way. It doesn't matter what others believe as long as they are happy and not hurting others. There isn't just one way to live or to believe. Dying and expecting a fantasy to come true is not, IMO, harmful.

 

Others may speak of "coming out" to their families. I never saw the need, but I was living my own life, and I still do. In the end, that's all we can do.

[Legion]

And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away.

In my estimation it's not a matter of willingness; it's a matter of ability. I think if someone wants to believe something desperately enough then there's little that anyone can do to dissuade them.

[JoeHoya]

So I want to get other former Christians opinions on this little dilemma I have in my head. I was a Christian for about 19 years but a about 1.5 years ago my faith slowly started dying and now I am an atheist. My mother remains very religious and needless to say the news of my lack of faith was a large blow to her.

 

I realize that the older I get and once I have my own family, the less interaction I will have with her. We have no other family in this country. I would love to be able to fully explain my reasons for not believing to my mother to help her break free from religion (it has caused her great harm, though she will not admit it freely). Mostly I just want to help her get the imagine out of her mind that her son will one day burn in hell, I can't imagine this gives her comfort. My problem arises when I realize that if my mother did not have religion, she would have little to no social interaction. When I get older, and when she retires, that will be all she has left. And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away. I would rather watch my mother become more relgious then watch her slowly lose her mind from lack of contact with other humans (personally I would rather have neither happen).

 

I really just want to know what other people think about this or if others have gone through similar situations. Anyways I'm really happy I found this site, and I'm glad there are so many people I can relate to despite not knowing a single face.

 

I'm in almost exactly the same situation. My father died last year, and my mother works for the church. It's practically the only reason she leaves the house. She more or less forced the truth out of me regarding my de-conversion a few months ago, and hasn't mentioned it since. She was heartbroken, but to be honest I think she was, more than anything, afraid to continue the conversation because she could sense the truth in what I was saying and terrified by the implications.

 

I can certainly sympathize.

 

As for what to do - the way I see it, without a God or gods judging us on some obscure cosmic scale and providing an afterlife to hand out according rewards and punishments, we only have this ONE life and our earthly happiness is the only happiness we'll ever have. So, without getting too philosophical, I think it's at least defensible to let her continue to believe that which brings her happiness even if it's not true. After all, there aren't any eternal consequences.

 

The general question of whether it's better to believe a comforting lie or a hard truth is for another place and time...

[Guest I Love Dog]

So I want to get other former Christians opinions on this little dilemma I have in my head. I was a Christian for about 19 years but a about 1.5 years ago my faith slowly started dying and now I am an atheist. My mother remains very religious and needless to say the news of my lack of faith was a large blow to her.

 

I realize that the older I get and once I have my own family, the less interaction I will have with her. We have no other family in this country. I would love to be able to fully explain my reasons for not believing to my mother to help her break free from religion (it has caused her great harm, though she will not admit it freely). Mostly I just want to help her get the imagine out of her mind that her son will one day burn in hell, I can't imagine this gives her comfort. My problem arises when I realize that if my mother did not have religion, she would have little to no social interaction. When I get older, and when she retires, that will be all she has left. And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away. I would rather watch my mother become more relgious then watch her slowly lose her mind from lack of contact with other humans (personally I would rather have neither happen).

 

I really just want to know what other people think about this or if others have gone through similar situations. Anyways I'm really happy I found this site, and I'm glad there are so many people I can relate to despite not knowing a single face.

 

I'm in almost exactly the same situation. My father died last year, and my mother works for the church. It's practically the only reason she leaves the house. She more or less forced the truth out of me regarding my de-conversion a few months ago, and hasn't mentioned it since. She was heartbroken, but to be honest I think she was, more than anything, afraid to continue the conversation because she could sense the truth in what I was saying and terrified by the implications.

 

I can certainly sympathize.

 

As for what to do - the way I see it, without a God or gods judging us on some obscure cosmic scale and providing an afterlife to hand out according rewards and punishments, we only have this ONE life and our earthly happiness is the only happiness we'll ever have. So, without getting too philosophical, I think it's at least defensible to let her continue to believe that which brings her happiness even if it's not true. After all, there aren't any eternal consequences.

 

The general question of whether it's better to believe a comforting lie or a hard truth is for another place and time...

 

Belief is a very personal thing and I say that whatever brings someone comfort in this life is for that person to deal with.

 

I cannot, and have not, for more than 50 years, believed in invisible beings who control our lives or an afterlife where we live happily ever after, or conversely, a "hell" where we burn forever if we don't obey the words of sub-intelligent humans who wrote a book 2000 years ago because they knew nothing of the science of this planet.

 

The only "judgement" in our lives is how we assess ourselves. Do we respect other humans? Are we fair and tolerant in our dealings with others? Do we exploit or lie to improve our personal wealth? Do we destroy our environment for personal gain? Do we accept others no matter what their race, color, creed, sexuality? Do we give generously to those in need? Do we respect and try to preserve the rights and environments of all other life forms on this planet?

 

No matter what is written in the holey burble/bubble/babble, there are at present 6.7 billion humans on this planet, only 2.1 billion of whom are Christians, with 4.6 billion people not knowing/interested in Christianity or the invented god of the Hebrews 2600 years ago. 20 million children alone die on this planet from starvation each year. Millions more die from disease.

 

I care for humanity. I care not for the delusional trappings of gods and religion. I care not for my personal future, but for the future of my children, their children, parents and children from around the World.

 

Personal salvation is a total cop out from life itself.

[dB-Paradox]

So I want to get other former Christians opinions on this little dilemma I have in my head. I was a Christian for about 19 years but a about 1.5 years ago my faith slowly started dying and now I am an atheist. My mother remains very religious and needless to say the news of my lack of faith was a large blow to her.

 

I realize that the older I get and once I have my own family, the less interaction I will have with her. We have no other family in this country. I would love to be able to fully explain my reasons for not believing to my mother to help her break free from religion (it has caused her great harm, though she will not admit it freely). Mostly I just want to help her get the imagine out of her mind that her son will one day burn in hell, I can't imagine this gives her comfort. My problem arises when I realize that if my mother did not have religion, she would have little to no social interaction. When I get older, and when she retires, that will be all she has left. And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away. I would rather watch my mother become more relgious then watch her slowly lose her mind from lack of contact with other humans (personally I would rather have neither happen).

 

I really just want to know what other people think about this or if others have gone through similar situations. Anyways I'm really happy I found this site, and I'm glad there are so many people I can relate to despite not knowing a single face.

Someone once told me that to take Christ away from someone is a harmful thing to do. Not that it's something you could do. But some people really need Jesus. Not Jesus per se, but just something to believe in. Anything. Now imagine for a moment that you tried reasoning with your mother and she started to see the evidence against Christianity. And say she realized that the whole religious thought was a farce. And after such a thing, she began to lose her faith. Would she lose her mind also? I know some people who would be better off having religion because either they are depressed, or religion keeps them satisfied, (or keeps them from murdering others, LOL) or whatever. Only you should decide if you should talk to your mother. But it sounds like you've already made up your mind whether or not to talk to her. And you've probably already made the right choice.

[Shyone]

So I want to get other former Christians opinions on this little dilemma I have in my head. I was a Christian for about 19 years but a about 1.5 years ago my faith slowly started dying and now I am an atheist. My mother remains very religious and needless to say the news of my lack of faith was a large blow to her.

 

I realize that the older I get and once I have my own family, the less interaction I will have with her. We have no other family in this country. I would love to be able to fully explain my reasons for not believing to my mother to help her break free from religion (it has caused her great harm, though she will not admit it freely). Mostly I just want to help her get the imagine out of her mind that her son will one day burn in hell, I can't imagine this gives her comfort. My problem arises when I realize that if my mother did not have religion, she would have little to no social interaction. When I get older, and when she retires, that will be all she has left. And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away. I would rather watch my mother become more relgious then watch her slowly lose her mind from lack of contact with other humans (personally I would rather have neither happen).

 

I really just want to know what other people think about this or if others have gone through similar situations. Anyways I'm really happy I found this site, and I'm glad there are so many people I can relate to despite not knowing a single face.

Someone once told me that to take Christ away from someone is a harmful thing to do. Not that it's something you could do. But some people really need Jesus. Not Jesus per se, but just something to believe in. Anything. Now imagine for a moment that you tried reasoning with your mother and she started to see the evidence against Christianity. And say she realized that the whole religious thought was a farce. And after such a thing, she began to lose her faith. Would she lose her mind also? I know some people who would be better off having religion because either they are depressed, or religion keeps them satisfied, (or keeps them from murdering others, LOL) or whatever. Only you should decide if you should talk to your mother. But it sounds like you've already made up your mind whether or not to talk to her. And you've probably already made the right choice.

To tell you the truth, I don't see that losing ones religious faith is ever a problem. We did it. We cope. We adjust. No?

 

If one were presuaded by rational arguments that their belief in something was absolutely untrue, should we worry that they will stop believing? Are there some people so far into fantasy-land that to bring them back would be harmful?

 

I think that's a myth. It's a myth that the religious invented to keep us from talking about what we know, and a myth to allow them to shut us up, and a myth to keep their congregation from listening.

 

I have yet to see someone permanently damaged because they lost their faith. Exclusively. I'm not saying it's not sad to realize that Puff the Magic Dragon isn't real, but the sadness does not justify repression (either external or internal).

[Phanta]

And that is something I find myself unwilling to take away.

In my estimation it's not a matter of willingness; it's a matter of ability. I think if someone wants to believe something desperately enough then there's little that anyone can do to dissuade them.

 

This is also my experience. You can't fix this for her. Period. It is for her.

 

What you do have some control over is walking your own path in kindness and truth, learning to tolerate and self-sooth your difficult feelings around watching her struggle in her life's walk. If you can do that, only then may you find yourself available to support her in what she discerns she needs in terms of support.

 

Be well.

 

Phanta

[Phanta]

To tell you the truth, I don't see that losing ones religious faith is ever a problem. We did it. We cope. We adjust. No?

 

Is what's right for us right for everyone?

 

I knew a very old man who had been a minister in his younger years. He lost his faith on September 11th. He fell into despair. This is how he spent his final days.

 

I never liked the man a whit, and I have to tell you, it was a hard thing to see.

 

Phanta

[Shyone]

To tell you the truth, I don't see that losing ones religious faith is ever a problem. We did it. We cope. We adjust. No?

 

Is what's right for us right for everyone?

 

I knew a very old man who had been a minister in his younger years. He lost his faith on September 11th. He fell into despair. This is how he spent his final days.

 

I never liked the man a whit, and I have to tell you, it was a hard thing to see.

 

Phanta

September 11. What a way to face reality.

 

Wouldn't it be better to engage in reason than have reality hit you in the face?

 

How many people were depressed after 9/11. How many committed suicide? But how many did so solely because they lost their faith.

 

I don't look at "us" as being exceptional or different. Is that how you see us? Are we so gifted that we have both the ability to see reality and the ability to withstand the bad effects of the loss of faith?

 

Should we "protect" everyone else from the terrible knowledge that we possess; knowledge that could destroy civilization?

 

Or isn't it just the truth? And we know because we looked for it - accepting what we found?

[Legion]

It may be past due that we have a thread in which we discuss changing other people's minds.

 

Phanta I enjoyed your post here above.

[Vigile]

To tell you the truth, I don't see that losing ones religious faith is ever a problem. We did it. We cope. We adjust. No?

 

Is what's right for us right for everyone?

 

I knew a very old man who had been a minister in his younger years. He lost his faith on September 11th. He fell into despair. This is how he spent his final days.

 

I never liked the man a whit, and I have to tell you, it was a hard thing to see.

 

Phanta

 

I'll preface this by saying I don't feel it's right for me to play the role of reverse evangelist.

 

That said, wtf? How did 9/11 make this guy lose his faith and then make him despondent? It seems like a vast overreaction. I mean shit happens. It sucked but it wasn't the end of the world. And I was a hell of a lot closer to it than most Americans having watched it happen from my office window and then having to spend the day hoping and worrying my wife, who I couldn't contact wasn't a victim.

 

Personally I feel a lot more damaged from the subsequent reaction than I did to the actual event.

[Deva]

Belief is a very personal thing and I say that whatever brings someone comfort in this life is for that person to deal with.

 

I cannot, and have not, for more than 50 years, believed in invisible beings who control our lives or an afterlife where we live happily ever after, or conversely, a "hell" where we burn forever if we don't obey the words of sub-intelligent humans who wrote a book 2000 years ago because they knew nothing of the science of this planet.

 

The only "judgement" in our lives is how we assess ourselves. Do we respect other humans? Are we fair and tolerant in our dealings with others? Do we exploit or lie to improve our personal wealth? Do we destroy our environment for personal gain? Do we accept others no matter what their race, color, creed, sexuality? Do we give generously to those in need? Do we respect and try to preserve the rights and environments of all other life forms on this planet?

 

No matter what is written in the holey burble/bubble/babble, there are at present 6.7 billion humans on this planet, only 2.1 billion of whom are Christians, with 4.6 billion people not knowing/interested in Christianity or the invented god of the Hebrews 2600 years ago. 20 million children alone die on this planet from starvation each year. Millions more die from disease.

 

I care for humanity. I care not for the delusional trappings of gods and religion. I care not for my personal future, but for the future of my children, their children, parents and children from around the World.

 

Personal salvation is a total cop out from life itself.

 

 

Excellent post, I LoveDog. Your view largely corresponds with mine. Only difference is that I do actually care for my personal future. At the same time, I realize that a self- centered "personal salvation" is not the best vision for humanity.

 

I really hate Christianity. I have reached the place where I see almost nothing of value in it and only see the harm. But I know I was not always of this opinion. I look back at the struggle to find out the truth about it and realize it would be futile for me to try to deconvert someone else. Maybe some people are very influenced by what individuals say to them, but when I was a Christian no one could have persuaded me it was nonsense. I may have had some doubts, but there are many people in churches today, and professing Christians who live with those doubts. It took years of searching, reading, observing, and maturity to throw it out.

 

I would never attempt to deconvert my fundamentalist parents. Their lives revolve around the church. That is the center of their world. It would be futile and only result in harm to our relationship. At the same time, I insist they respect my right to not participate in that religion. The fact that they see me hellbound regardless of any success in life I may have had or will have is mentally tough, but I can't change that.

[Phanta]

To tell you the truth, I don't see that losing ones religious faith is ever a problem. We did it. We cope. We adjust. No?

 

Is what's right for us right for everyone?

 

I knew a very old man who had been a minister in his younger years. He lost his faith on September 11th. He fell into despair. This is how he spent his final days.

 

I never liked the man a whit, and I have to tell you, it was a hard thing to see.

 

Phanta

 

That said, wtf? How did 9/11 make this guy lose his faith and then make him despondent? It seems like a vast overreaction. I mean shit happens. It sucked but it wasn't the end of the world. And I was a hell of a lot closer to it than most Americans having watched it happen from my office window and then having to spend the day hoping and worrying my wife, who I couldn't contact wasn't a victim.

 

I didn't know him well enough to say more than "hello, nice weather, sir." This man was the Grandfather of a dear friend, so I have scant details secondhand from her.

 

The message I got was that he was devastated by the sheer loss of life in that act, that he couldn't believe if God existed, that it would be allowed. I have no further details, but whatever experiences in life that this man had, this is what it brought him to. We are all really, really different people. For him, this did it. I have no issue accepting it as true. I could jump to saying that you not understanding it AT ALL is an overreaction, but it's not. It's just how you operate on this issue.

 

People are funny like that.

 

Phanta

[HRDWarrior]

I would highly doubt that you could ever do anything to help your mother deconvert. I really wish my mom would let go of the last visages of her version of christianity, since it only causes her far more harm than good (although she has herself convinced otherwise). But, alas, the only thing I can do is answer her questions if I feel it's appropriate, and remain the daughter she's known. Our relationship is probably healthier now, in fact just the other day she was mentioning seriously considering getting some professional counseling, something I have tried to talk her into for years but she would only go to christian counselors before...perhaps seeing that the lack of religion in my life has not changed me is helping? I don't know, but what I do know is I could never convince her through my words to abandon her religion.

 

I think being there for your mom and loving her is the best thing you can do.

[Phanta]

September 11. What a way to face reality.

 

Wouldn't it be better to engage in reason than have reality hit you in the face?

 

How many people were depressed after 9/11. How many committed suicide? But how many did so solely because they lost their faith.

 

I don't look at "us" as being exceptional or different. Is that how you see us? Are we so gifted that we have both the ability to see reality and the ability to withstand the bad effects of the loss of faith?

 

Should we "protect" everyone else from the terrible knowledge that we possess; knowledge that could destroy civilization?

 

Or isn't it just the truth? And we know because we looked for it - accepting what we found?

 

I don't know if it's the truth, Shyone. I just know it's what works for me. It will work for me until it doesn't, and then I will find another cope (worldview) or I will be broken. This man was broken. He lost his cope. He never recovered. I don't think protecting him and others is realistic, but loss of faith is a real problem, in my eyes. One some people never solve. I don't know why we are different.

 

Phanta

[OpheliaGinger]

That said, wtf? How did 9/11 make this guy lose his faith and then make him despondent? It seems like a vast overreaction. I mean shit happens. It sucked but it wasn't the end of the world. And I was a hell of a lot closer to it than most Americans having watched it happen from my office window and then having to spend the day hoping and worrying my wife, who I couldn't contact wasn't a victim.

 

Personally I feel a lot more damaged from the subsequent reaction than I did to the actual event.

 

9/11 actually caused a lot of people to become more religious. Prior to 9/11, my family always went to church on Sunday and Wednesday, but after the incident we saw tons of people who normally only attended church on the holidays sitting in the pews. People became afraid, so they turned to the only thing they ever knew to help them--instead of looking from within.

[ShallowByThyGame]

I think 9/11 pushed you farther in one direction or another...

 

 

But let your mother be your mother. She has her own brain. But you should also be yourself. Being someone else to please your elders is not healthy...you don't have to tell her off, but neither do you have to be the perfect child. You don't owe her an explanation if you don't want to baptize your children. You have to set the boundaries, and it may seem like she is the real child in the relationship...but you can't control her, so concentrate on living your own life to the best of your ability.

[Hungrydingo]

Yeah I knew a lot of people who thought that 9/11 was the beginning of some sort of Holy War, the Crusades redux or something.

 

As for the OP, I think it can be harmful to pull away something that means so much to someone, especially at an older age. If it took away her only way to socially interact with others, I think that would be the worst part of it all. I think regardless of age, anyone can deconvert and go through the whole process most of us went through and make it out stronger in the end. However taking away someone's only social interactions can very quickly lead to declining mental and physical health and probably cause depression.