Why Do You Allow Christians On The Site To Post?

[Shyone]

So, where is this "magical edge" that Christians and their communities are supposed to enjoy ?

 

I've always thought that religion's benefits were in terms of its people. Networking, contacts, resources and recommendations. He who has people supporting him is stronger than he who is alone.

 

I think the same applies to many clubs and social organizations.

 

Of course, there is nothing magical about it unless you consider human to human personal interaction to be magical.

[Mriana]

I've used it more than that. There is a delusional fundie, even delusional by my fellow start Trek friend, who is Xian too, on the Roddenberry board. We are often going around and around about her insanity. It's bad when one's fellow Xians think a person is delusional. This person had the audacity once to call my Xian Star Trek friend, not a Xian because they did not agree on dogma. You should have seen them go at it. My friend will say, "She's off her meds again" every time this person starts going on and on delusionally about Xianity, the Rapture, and all. It's quite funny how two different Xians will use the same book and one of them will say the other is insane. Meanwhile, this person "who is off her meds" jumps me for being "an atheist". It's how she says "atheist" and my friend will jump right in sometimes and defend me with things like, "You can't force a person to be Xian. They have to chose it for themselves. etc etc". It can be a real riot to watch the two of them go back and forth.

Yeah. I like the Christian v Christian battles. It becomes even more clear how much the religion is messed up.

 

Yes it really does and they wonder why religion, esp Xianity, is unbelievable.

[Franko47]

This was maybe the biggest initial impetus to my deconversion - Christians taken as a group are no different than any other group of humanity, and the bible certainly promises them to be otherwise. I also think this notion of 'the world' is a false one, the non-Christian world is not a monolith.

 

A major part of my deconversion was realizing that in every practical sense the church was at best another aspect of the world. It's behaviour and values were in no way miraculously different from the rest of the world's.

 

 

Check. Even while a Christian, going to a church, I had to use the same level of caution (about humans) that I would use in traffic, the workplace, or a casino. The same pitfalls were there, the same social games, the posturing, the politics, the discrete egotism.... no different than any other "worldly" venue. Nor was anyone there more gracious than my self (on a good day), more generous, more enlightened, more comforting, or capable of "miracles" or any other kind of extraordinary "powers".

 

In short, the Christians I knew were no better, happier, or more extraordinary than regular agnostic/atheists that I knew. Nor did they have any impressive solutions for the regular problems of life. Nothing there whatsoever but a lot of hoping and dreaming and "you must have faith" that it will "somehow get better", etc.

 

So, where is this "magical edge" that Christians and their communities are supposed to enjoy ? I was getting more spiritual reinforcement out of night school. At least music and the arts were tangible; and you got out of it what you put in...the other was just sitting around dreaming and pretending that some imaginary being was going to make our lives better ? And that's just breaks between the sessions of hand-wringing about how "corrupt" the "outside world" was.

 

I'm afraid that it was a slow realization in some ways that many of these people were still living with a lot of childish fears. Sorry, that's a harsh thing to say, but...

 

 

I really like this post. It gives me a lot to think about. I admit some of it is true as well and I have seen my share of it as well. I do find however, I have found a group of christian women that inspire me and radiate a warmth that I haven't found anywhere else. On the other hand, I have come across christians similar to what you describe here Franko.

 

I dont understand why this is so either. This group of women laugh, have joy, have been through enormous challenges, and yet still stand firm in their beliefs. I am inspired by them, to become one day like them to have such strength inside them, to not run away. If that is a God or worldly thing who am I to say. I hope to be like them when I am going on 60.

 

 

 

Thank you Kathlene, and I would never want to detract from the benefits of being in a social situation where there are people who want to help you in a real way, lend their life-learned wisdom, and even give you strength. I have the odd Christian friend myself, most of whom are of honest and strong character, and as sincere people we can always learn things from each other regardless of "affiliations". I think you're quite brave to talk about your thoughts and raise issues here at this forum; it can be a tough crowd sometimes. Even I've been shredded a couple of times and I'm a fire breathing hedonistic atheist !!!!

[StevoMuso]

I dont understand why this is so either. This group of women laugh, have joy, have been through enormous challenges, and yet still stand firm in their beliefs. I am inspired by them, to become one day like them to have such strength inside them, to not run away. If that is a God or worldly thing who am I to say. I hope to be like them when I am going on 60.

Thank you Kathlene, and I would never want to detract from the benefits of being in a social situation where there are people who want to help you in a real way, lend their life-learned wisdom, and even give you strength. I have the odd Christian friend myself, most of whom are of honest and strong character, and as sincere people we can always learn things from each other regardless of "affiliations". I think you're quite brave to talk about your thoughts and raise issues here at this forum; it can be a tough crowd sometimes. Even I've been shredded a couple of times and I'm a fire breathing hedonistic atheist !!!!

I haven't contributed on this thread yet but I would like to add my view if I may. I think these wonderful, warm people would still be that way if they weren't Christians. One of the troubles with Christianity is that it is marketed as the "right thing to do" and as such attracts people who are already honest and strong in character etc.

 

The fact that they are still Christians means they haven't really given the dogma much time and thought, they simply go about their lives, doing good at their Church and exuding warmth and fellowship wherever they go - it's who they are. And my view is that if the religious element were removed they would still be the same (if not better).

[NewPerspectives__]

..[We] make them a matter of public record, along with a steady stream of real-life examples of just how badly the, "indwelling of the Holy Spirit," has failed and continues to fail the Christians.

 

We want to set the moral bar for ourselves higher than those thousands of Christian sites evidently do. And frankly, we manage to get over that bar quite well (usually) without trying too damn hard, which says something very clear and damning about the bulk of Christian discourse.

 

This may be your final chance to re-re-convert. It's entirely akin to a yoyo (smirk) :~

[Legion]

Kathlene I know what you think about surfing Youtube, but please listen to this one song if you have not yet heard it...

 

[StevoMuso]

I think these wonderful, warm people would still be that way if they weren't Christians. One of the troubles with Christianity is that it is marketed as the "right thing to do" and as such attracts people who are already honest and strong in character etc.

 

The fact that they are still Christians means they haven't really given the dogma much time and thought, they simply go about their lives, doing good at their Church and exuding warmth and fellowship wherever they go - it's who they are. And my view is that if the religious element were removed they would still be the same (if not better).

 

I agree, it is all personality based. All you have to do is look at the Myers-Briggs Personality types and compare across cultures. It is the same. I would be comparable across religions. If a person is a warm and nurturing individual, that is more a basis of personality.

 

I travel a lot as a musician here in South Africa. This weekend I drove up into farm country to play a 40th Birthday in a small town called Delmas. What stunning people! warm, fuzzy farmers with the close families and warm fellowship found in farming communities throughout the world. These people are the salt of the earth (IMHO). They work hard all week on the farm, get nicely pissed in the pub on weekends and off to Kerk on Sundays. Their religion seems to fit them so well, these gentle folk, and for them to question the validity of Christianity would be as alien as questioning the validity of being farmers. Their religion forms an integral part of their community without, I think, affecting them (or society) in a negative way.

 

Just wanted to share this with you fellow gentle atheist-folk ... I'm a hardened reprobate ... but sometimes I can't help feeling empathy with certain kinds of Christians. They are good people and being Christian, to them, is the good thing to do.

[Shyone]

They work hard all week on the farm, get nicely pissed in the pub on weekends and off to Kerk on Sundays.

 

I could dig a religion that worships Captain Kerk on Sundays.

[StevoMuso]

They work hard all week on the farm, get nicely pissed in the pub on weekends and off to Kerk on Sundays.

 

I could dig a religion that worships Captain Kerk on Sundays.

 

My apologies

 

"Kerk" is an Afrikaans word for "church" (also Dutch, Belgian, I think). I know, you knew that, and space-church does fit our wacky sense of humor, but just in case ...

[Shyone]

They work hard all week on the farm, get nicely pissed in the pub on weekends and off to Kerk on Sundays.

 

I could dig a religion that worships Captain Kerk on Sundays.

 

My apologies

 

"Kerk" is an Afrikaans word for "church" (also Dutch, Belgian, I think). I know, you knew that, and space-church does fit our wacky sense of humor, but just in case ...

Yeah, I was just pullin' legs. I do understand the message. I wonder how they would treat someone in their community that just decided "This is bullshit! Don't you people know about critical thinking?"

[Antlerman]

They work hard all week on the farm, get nicely pissed in the pub on weekends and off to Kerk on Sundays.

 

I could dig a religion that worships Captain Kerk on Sundays.

I can see you on the right with your local congregation now...

 

 

and your minister to deliver the sermon...

 

 

Praise the Lord, and pass that green stuff.

[Hungrydingo]

Why allow Christians? I guess to add some debate into the forum although I've yet to see any kind of fight from any christian here other than "I believe it because I just do". Plus many of us have experienced censorship of our beliefs or could never fully express them because of how it would affect our relationships with family or friends. Why create yet another place in the world where people are afraid to state what they truly believe in? It doesn't matter what your religion is, that's never a good thing. I'm guessing that's why Christians are allowed here.

[Antlerman]

Actually, this is the coolest Trek picture ever...

 

[StevoMuso]

Actually, this is the coolest Trek picture ever...

How many Spok-plugs does she have?

 

Praise the Lord, and pass that green stuff.

Brilliant hehe

 

I wonder how they would treat someone in their community that just decided "This is bullshit! Don't you people know about critical thinking?"

 

It's fun taking a jab at simple folk but you know, I couldn't bring myself to find fault with their religion. If I told them "This is bullshit! Don't you people know about critical thinking?" they would just say, "Jy praat kak man, kry vir jou nog 'n bier" ("You're talking shit man, get another beer). These guys aren't really interested - and their religion doesn't affect them that much. They can fix a broken tractor, assist in calving a breeched cow, drink 2 bottles of brandy and still party through the night without passing out. But come Sunday - there they sit, with a huge "babbalas" (hangover), - singing the hymns and saying a lusty "Aaaamen" after the closing prayer.

 

I dunno - it's rather quaint - most of them can barely read let alone debate the finer points of Bertrand Russell and Richard Dawkins - and I'm okay with that.

[Lanakila]

Hey all,

 

Im just curious to know why this site allows christians in here to post, and what it is that you are hoping to gain from them?

 

Do you like christians in here? If so, why?

If not, why?

Freedom to hold different opinions and beliefs is something many of us hold as a valuable standard. That doesn't mean we have to respect or even like to hear/read those opinions/beliefs.

 

I've been deconverted from Christianity for many years. I believe that the religion is bullshit, just like Islam or Scientology. I'll not pull any punches in telling a believer of any religion that their beliefs are bullshit if asked what I think about it. I am not an evangelist for atheism though.

[Shyone]

 

It's fun taking a jab at simple folk but you know, I couldn't bring myself to find fault with their religion. If I told them "This is bullshit! Don't you people know about critical thinking?" they would just say, "Jy praat kak man, kry vir jou nog 'n bier" ("You're talking shit man, get another beer). These guys aren't really interested - and their religion doesn't affect them that much.

 

I didn't mean for an outsider to tell them their religion is BS; I meant that perhaps one day one of their children may come to the conclusion that there is nothing to the religion and express an opinion - a strong opinion - about it. How would that be received in their own community?

 

Ostracism? Or "Jy praat kak man, kry vir jou nog 'n bier"?

[ShackledNoMore]

They work hard all week on the farm, get nicely pissed in the pub on weekends and off to Kerk on Sundays.

 

I could dig a religion that worships Captain Kerk on Sundays.

 

My apologies

 

"Kerk" is an Afrikaans word for "church" (also Dutch, Belgian, I think). I know, you knew that, and space-church does fit our wacky sense of humor, but just in case ...

Kirk is also an English word for a Scottish church.

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that kerk and kirk stem from a common root.

[Kathlene]

Kathlene I know what you think about surfing Youtube, but please listen to this one song if you have not yet heard it...

 

 

 

Thankyou Legion! I really enjoyed that song. Im nearly at the end of my monthly download usage, so it was all good...another 25gigs of youtube here we come!!

 

I like how you pop youtube songs into threads. I can see music means a lot to you. I love music, it is so amazing.

[StevoMuso]

I didn't mean for an outsider to tell them their religion is BS; I meant that perhaps one day one of their children may come to the conclusion that there is nothing to the religion and express an opinion - a strong opinion - about it. How would that be received in their own community?

 

Ostracism? Or "Jy praat kak man, kry vir jou nog 'n bier"?

I've met quite a few Afrikaans atheists recently and many of them keep quiet about their views. Not so much due to cowardice as not wanting to hurt people. The Afrikaners view Christianity as part of being Afrikaans - if you stop being a Christian you will be regarded as a traitor to your nation/family (volk en Vaderland). If one of their own says it's all BS, they will get both reactions ... ostracism and "Jy praat kak" ... but more than anything people like parents and grandparents (very close families) will be deeply hurt and feel betrayed.

 

I'm not sure how many of my posts you've read, but even as an English speaking South African I have had terrible "persecution" for my lack of faith. My wife divorced me, I've lost 2 jobs, been physically chased away, and much much more. For an Afrikaner to become an atheist it is even more serious. One of our Afr singer/actor celebrities published a letter in the Freedom From Religion Foundation's newspaper questioning the integrity of the NG Kerk and some other things. He started getting gigs cancelled and had to actually sue some people - credit to our legal system he won his case - but he was called all sorts of things from traitor to communist. It almost ruined his career so now he just keeps quiet.

 

Good news - things are getting better here. Since my book got published there are many atheists, or at least questioners, coming out of the woodwork. Freethought is taking off and we are starting to win the battle for truth against credulity. I started a group called Religion-Free Africa and had 35 members in a matter of days. Very encouraging :-)

[StevoMuso]

 

Kirk is also an English word for a Scottish church.

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that kerk and kirk stem from a common root.

Yup - the root called "stooopid" hehe

 

Yes, I remember now ... Kirk. Isn't it from the Gaelic? My roots are in Scotland - maybe we should worship Capt Kirk after all. HeheHE.

[ShackledNoMore]

 

Kirk is also an English word for a Scottish church.

 

I'd bet dollars to donuts that kerk and kirk stem from a common root.

maybe we should worship Capt Kirk after all. HeheHE.

By Jimmy, we can start our own holy war: the Picard will be angry.

[Shyone]

I'm not sure how many of my posts you've read, but even as an English speaking South African I have had terrible "persecution" for my lack of faith.

 

Yes, I read that. I am not surprised that the same might hold true for the Afrikaners. I think that the pressure for conformity in society, and particularly in religion, is the worst part of religion. When everyone "agrees" it may seem like a good thing, as with the Afrikaners, but then there is a subtext of persecution.

 

Toleration is not built into religion.

[StevoMuso]

By Jimmy, we can start our own holy war: the Picard will be angry.

Yes. And anyone who doesn't believe in the orbiting Teapot and Capt Kirk, will be ... erm ... maybe our Christian posters can give us some ideas (I'm not sure I can do the "holy war" shit any more, I lost my blood-lust when I lost my faith).

[StevoMuso]

I think that the pressure for conformity in society, and particularly in religion, is the worst part of religion. When everyone "agrees" it may seem like a good thing, as with the Afrikaners, but then there is a subtext of persecution.

 

Toleration is not built into religion.

Yes. (Read the following in a Grand-Preacher voice) "And your Father, and Grandfather, and his Father before him, were steadfast in their faith. They were an example to us all for the good Christian works they have done in our community, and we continue in their tracks - faithful to our God and faithful to our Nation" Then your community may ask, "Who are YOU to question your Father, and his Father etc? And also, how DARE you question it?"

 

How do you fight that? There is very little defense for this kind of indoctrination.