Is There More To This World/universe Than What Meets The Eye?

[merc_m]

I've had some interesting experiences, at least one of which I can't fit very nicely into the observational rationalist paradigm. Would have taken false memories of more than one person or something along those lines. But even if it was a bonafide spiritual happening, can't really say what it would prove. At very least it keeps my mind open. The rest of my 'spiritual' experiences are much more subjective and explainable by psychological phenomena, though I'm not so sure that doesn't necessarily take all of the interesting-ness away. I remember reading somewhere that under hypnotic suggestion people who believed they were poked with a red hot poker developed physical welts. If that truly happened, it shows the degree to which mind can actually influence the body, which us takes us into miracle healing territory.

 

Anyway, still a militant agnostic here: "I don't know and you don't either!"

[Greatest I am]

I've had some interesting experiences, at least one of which I can't fit very nicely into the observational rationalist paradigm. Would have taken false memories of more than one person or something along those lines. But even if it was a bonafide spiritual happening, can't really say what it would prove. At very least it keeps my mind open. The rest of my 'spiritual' experiences are much more subjective and explainable by psychological phenomena, though I'm not so sure that doesn't necessarily take all of the interesting-ness away. I remember reading somewhere that under hypnotic suggestion people who believed they were poked with a red hot poker developed physical welts. If that truly happened, it shows the degree to which mind can actually influence the body, which us takes us into miracle healing territory.

 

Anyway, still a militant agnostic here: "I don't know and you don't either!"

 

But, but, I do.

 

Regards

DL

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

I am a defacto atheist I would have to say. I don't actively disbelieve or believe in a god.

 

On things you can't explain. The the lack explaination doesn't automatically mean god did it

[Greatest I am]

Just to add my 2 cents..

 

I get a real hardon when I consider there might be a whole intricate system or setup behind the laws of physics that we observe. Whether or not it's caused by a great being or just another dimension, it's kinda neat in concept. But I don't believe in the supernatural, only the natural that hasn't been discovered yet.

 

A damned fine position to help promote an apotheosis. Good luck.

 

Hint---When Darwin found the Galapagos Islands, do you think that he thought that he found a perfectly evolving system or would he have thought that there was a poor system in place?

 

Regards

DL

[Greatest I am]

I am a defacto atheist I would have to say. I don't actively disbelieve or believe in a god.

 

On things you can't explain. The the lack explaination doesn't automatically mean god did it

 

Would I be right in saying that the God that you would believe in would have to be able to do miracles?

 

Regards

DL

[PandaPirate]

Well, I'm not an atheist, I'm not a Christian, I am attracted to Taoism and New Age. I like to explore many theories and then come to my own conclusion.

 

And, yes, Quantum physics says there's definitely more to the world than meets the eye

[Greatest I am]

Well, I'm not an atheist, I'm not a Christian, I am attracted to Taoism and New Age. I like to explore many theories and then come to my own conclusion.

 

And, yes, Quantum physics says there's definitely more to the world than meets the eye

 

Not sure if I would agree on what physics says but it sounds like you are in the God within camp?

If so, what are your thoughts on apotheosis or a rapprochement to God.

 

Regards

DL

[Overcame Faith]

There is something that can be very difficult for us humans to overcome. And that is our tendency to believe that when two events are related in time they are also related in fact. For example, if someone you knew took a prescription medication for the very first time and then one hour later died of a heart attack, it would be very tempting to come to the conclusion that the prescription medication caused the heart attack. However, it is not necessarily so. It could be a pure coincidence that the person took the medication one hour before he/she would have had the heart attack anyway. So, just because your brother overcame his citrus allergy after being prayed for does not mean there is a connection in fact between the prayer and his overcoming the allergy. And just because the hole in your friend's heart was was not seen after being prayed for proves neither that there was actually a hole there (it could have been a misdiagnosis) or that there was a connection between the prayers and the hole going away.

 

It is our natural human tendency to connect two events in time even though there may be no connection in fact that the science of epidemiology was developed. In epidemiology, two or more groups are studied to determine cause and effect. For example, if you want to know if cigarette smoking can cause lung cancer, you study one group of people who represent the general population and compare lung cancer rates in this group with another group of people who smoke cigarettes. This study, of course, was done and the results are well known. The group of smokers had significanly more cases of lung cancers than did the general population. Conclusion, smoking causes lung cancer.

 

A similar study has been done to determine whether prayer has any effect on people's health. The results of the study were released in 2006. The study involved 1,800 patients at six different medical facilities all of whom had heart surgery. The patients were divided into three different groups of 600 each. One group of 600 knew they were being prayed for, one group of 600 were prayed for but were told only that they "might" be prayed for, and one group of 600 who were not prayed for but were told they "might" be prayed for. Those who did the praying were Christians of various denominations. The study was to determine whether there was a connection between prayer and complications following surgery. The results were that there was no connection between prayer and post-surgery complications. However, one interesting and unexplained result was that the group of 600 who knew they were being prayed for actually had more complications than the other two control groups.

 

When we see someone "healed" after being prayed for, it is very human of us to connect the two events. However, just think of the numerous times when someone you knew was prayed for and they were not healed. Just remember, a connection in time does not mean a connection in fact.

[Shyone]

When we see someone "healed" after being prayed for, it is very human of us to connect the two events. However, just think of the numerous times when someone you knew was prayed for and they were not healed. Just remember, a connection in time does not mean a connection in fact.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

[PandaPirate]

Well, I'm not an atheist, I'm not a Christian, I am attracted to Taoism and New Age. I like to explore many theories and then come to my own conclusion.

 

And, yes, Quantum physics says there's definitely more to the world than meets the eye

 

Not sure if I would agree on what physics says but it sounds like you are in the God within camp?

If so, what are your thoughts on apotheosis or a rapprochement to God.

 

Regards

DL

 

I'm not in any camp. I have no clue how I got here or what it's all about. I just explore all the theories but even if I agree with any one theory, it doesn't mean I'm right.

 

Is there more than meets the eye? Yes, there is because we don't percieve everything with the human eye. Wave/particle duality is one example.

[florduh]

I'm not in any camp. I have no clue how I got here or what it's all about. I just explore all the theories but even if I agree with any one theory, it doesn't mean I'm right.

That's one of the most intelligent statements I've seen.

[PandaPirate]

I'm not in any camp. I have no clue how I got here or what it's all about. I just explore all the theories but even if I agree with any one theory, it doesn't mean I'm right.

That's one of the most intelligent statements I've seen.

 

I have my moments.

[Greatest I am]

Well, I'm not an atheist, I'm not a Christian, I am attracted to Taoism and New Age. I like to explore many theories and then come to my own conclusion.

 

And, yes, Quantum physics says there's definitely more to the world than meets the eye

 

Not sure if I would agree on what physics says but it sounds like you are in the God within camp?

If so, what are your thoughts on apotheosis or a rapprochement to God.

 

Regards

DL

 

I'm not in any camp. I have no clue how I got here or what it's all about. I just explore all the theories but even if I agree with any one theory, it doesn't mean I'm right.

 

Is there more than meets the eye? Yes, there is because we don't percieve everything with the human eye. Wave/particle duality is one example.

 

Belief in the things of physics is one thing.

Belief in a God that can transcend physics is quite another matter.

 

Do you believe in fantasy and miracles. Does the God you choose need them to be worthy?

 

Regards

DL

[dB-Paradox]

As far as knowing things... well I know pretty much what my husband is going to do too, lol. I don't consider that as part of my "knowing" things though. An example is waking up one Sunday morning and I suddenly just knew that I would meet the man I was going to marry that day. I laughed, shook my head, and got ready for my day. I was joining my father for a visit to a church. They had asked him to come as a guest preacher for one Sunday. One Sunday only. I walked into that church and knew this would be my home church. And I did meet my husband for the first time that day. No sparks flew, we meet briefly, and didn't speak again until we moved to that church several months later. Why did I "know" that? It was my first experience of something like that happening. I can count on one hand the times it has happened to me that strongly. I find it weird. I think it's kind of a cute part of our story. Maybe that's all it is

I believe whole-heartedly that we make our own fortunes and misfortunes. If you wake up "knowing" something, you've already asserted that this *thing* is likely to happen. Could you have controlled who you met? Not really. But did you know ahead of time that your father would be a guest speaker at a different church that day? I'm going to guess you did, since most guest speakers aren't called up at 7:30am and asked to speak at a new church. And I'm also going to guess your father made mention of the fact that he would be guest speaker at some other church sometime before that Sunday. I could be wrong on both accounts, but again, I'm going to quess I'm not.

 

Anyway, waking up that Sunday, knowing you would have the opportunity to meet some new people, you could easily *know* you were going to meet your future husband. And from that moment onward, you started looking, even if sub-consciously. And like you said, it wasn't instant chemistry. It wasn't until months later that you would revisit that church and run into that man again. But you must have been thinking, "hey, there's that guy again" almost as if reminding yourself about what you *knew* that Sunday morning several months earlier. And having been thinking about it for such a long time, as I'm sure is possible, you fulfilled your own prophesy.

 

But just a question, how many times do you get this *knowing* feeling and either nothing happens, or something does happen, but you have to contort things a bit to make them fit what you *knew* was going to happen? I ask, because sometimes (or maybe a lot more than sometimes) we tend to focus on things that really stand out and ignore things that just blend in. Then, it's the things that stand out that make us think of how supernatural it was. I don't know if I'm even making sense anymore.

[Shyone]

Recently I had a dream that my step-son would part from his wife. I told my wife about it and later that day she found that they had separated. Much to her glee.

 

Not long after, I dreamed I was in a truck with my brother-in-law and we were lost and confused, although I was certain I knew the right way. It was just that we were headed the wrong direction and couldn't turn the vehicle. Again, I told my wife, and later that day my brother-in-law was involved in a wreck. He was thrown from his commercial truck while turning a corner and wound up in the hospital needing surgery.

 

Clearly, I've left out all of the details that don't fit, but everything written here is true.

 

I also live far away from both of them, and it is rare that we speak with them, so there wasn't any reason in particular to have these dreams.

 

Clearly it was coincidence. Two coincidences. But I impressed my wife!

[PandaPirate]

Most today do not believe in the possibility or reality of apotheosis.

 

I had one but do not push it because of this fact and as in most cases, if not all cases of this type there is no proof that can be presented.

 

To believe in mine, you would have to believe in ---going in the spirit as the ancients used to call it. I call it in modern terms, telepathy.

 

I initiated this ability twice in my life. The first with my wife and the second with what I call a cosmic consciousness or Godhead.

 

If I had not had the first with my wife, then I would not give any veracity to the second. Because of her testimony to the reality of telepathy, I must give reality to the second.

 

Whenever I speak to anyone else who claims some king of otherworldly contact I have always discounted them because no one could articulate a message that was given. This tells me that they were full of it.

 

In my case there was a message but I took it as private without any particular meaning for anyone else but am happy to pass it on. Make what you will of it.

 

I was told to think more demographically.

 

Regards

DL

 

In regards to telepathy, I have experienced the ability to know things without direct evidence. I am a recovering addict and just before I would go "score" i would get this awful feeling in my stomach. Butterflies, if you will. Over the past five years, almost 99 percent of the time, when my s.o. would go out and start using while I was at home, I would get that same sensation in my stomach, without having direct evidence that he was out using. But, when he wouldn't come home, then my "feelings" were confirmed. It never, ever fails. Every time I get that knot in my stomach, he doesn't come home. So, how do I know these things? I don't know why we have that psychic bond. I can't explain it.

 

A better question is, why do I stay with him? Financial reasons which are personal, so don't ask, please.

[Greatest I am]

Most today do not believe in the possibility or reality of apotheosis.

 

I had one but do not push it because of this fact and as in most cases, if not all cases of this type there is no proof that can be presented.

 

To believe in mine, you would have to believe in ---going in the spirit as the ancients used to call it. I call it in modern terms, telepathy.

 

I initiated this ability twice in my life. The first with my wife and the second with what I call a cosmic consciousness or Godhead.

 

If I had not had the first with my wife, then I would not give any veracity to the second. Because of her testimony to the reality of telepathy, I must give reality to the second.

 

Whenever I speak to anyone else who claims some king of otherworldly contact I have always discounted them because no one could articulate a message that was given. This tells me that they were full of it.

 

In my case there was a message but I took it as private without any particular meaning for anyone else but am happy to pass it on. Make what you will of it.

 

I was told to think more demographically.

 

Regards

DL

 

In regards to telepathy, I have experienced the ability to know things without direct evidence. I am a recovering addict and just before I would go "score" i would get this awful feeling in my stomach. Butterflies, if you will. Over the past five years, almost 99 percent of the time, when my s.o. would go out and start using while I was at home, I would get that same sensation in my stomach, without having direct evidence that he was out using. But, when he wouldn't come home, then my "feelings" were confirmed. It never, ever fails. Every time I get that knot in my stomach, he doesn't come home. So, how do I know these things? I don't know why we have that psychic bond. I can't explain it.

 

A better question is, why do I stay with him? Financial reasons which are personal, so don't ask, please.

 

Telepathy, to me, is not just a feeling. When you are in contact with another, you know it and so do they.

They will consider it a violation of their persons.

It is and only those as irreverent as I was will do it.

Knowing, and being effected by the depth of thought that travels to telepaths, has both pain and pleasure to it and to inflict this on others is wrong.

 

I would call your situation as more empathic than telepathic.

 

Regards

DL

[PandaPirate]

Most today do not believe in the possibility or reality of apotheosis.

 

I had one but do not push it because of this fact and as in most cases, if not all cases of this type there is no proof that can be presented.

 

To believe in mine, you would have to believe in ---going in the spirit as the ancients used to call it. I call it in modern terms, telepathy.

 

I initiated this ability twice in my life. The first with my wife and the second with what I call a cosmic consciousness or Godhead.

 

If I had not had the first with my wife, then I would not give any veracity to the second. Because of her testimony to the reality of telepathy, I must give reality to the second.

 

Whenever I speak to anyone else who claims some king of otherworldly contact I have always discounted them because no one could articulate a message that was given. This tells me that they were full of it.

 

In my case there was a message but I took it as private without any particular meaning for anyone else but am happy to pass it on. Make what you will of it.

 

I was told to think more demographically.

 

Regards

DL

 

In regards to telepathy, I have experienced the ability to know things without direct evidence. I am a recovering addict and just before I would go "score" i would get this awful feeling in my stomach. Butterflies, if you will. Over the past five years, almost 99 percent of the time, when my s.o. would go out and start using while I was at home, I would get that same sensation in my stomach, without having direct evidence that he was out using. But, when he wouldn't come home, then my "feelings" were confirmed. It never, ever fails. Every time I get that knot in my stomach, he doesn't come home. So, how do I know these things? I don't know why we have that psychic bond. I can't explain it.

 

A better question is, why do I stay with him? Financial reasons which are personal, so don't ask, please.

 

Telepathy, to me, is not just a feeling. When you are in contact with another, you know it and so do they.

They will consider it a violation of their persons.

It is and only those as irreverent as I was will do it.

Knowing, and being effected by the depth of thought that travels to telepaths, has both pain and pleasure to it and to inflict this on others is wrong.

 

I would call your situation as more empathic than telepathic.

 

Regards

DL

 

DL, Telepathy is the ability to know something that you have no direct evidence for. Empathy is the ability to empathize with another person's situation or feelings. The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

 

Maybe you misunderstand what empathy and telepathy are. Let me clarify. I have the ability to absolutely know through gut feeling that my partner is using.

 

Empathy would be the abilility to understand another person's feelings.

 

See the difference?

 

Telepathy (from the Greek τηλε, tele meaning "distant" and πάθη, pathe meaning "affliction"),[2] is the ostensible transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five senses (See Psi).

[Greatest I am]

Most today do not believe in the possibility or reality of apotheosis.

 

I had one but do not push it because of this fact and as in most cases, if not all cases of this type there is no proof that can be presented.

 

To believe in mine, you would have to believe in ---going in the spirit as the ancients used to call it. I call it in modern terms, telepathy.

 

I initiated this ability twice in my life. The first with my wife and the second with what I call a cosmic consciousness or Godhead.

 

If I had not had the first with my wife, then I would not give any veracity to the second. Because of her testimony to the reality of telepathy, I must give reality to the second.

 

Whenever I speak to anyone else who claims some king of otherworldly contact I have always discounted them because no one could articulate a message that was given. This tells me that they were full of it.

 

In my case there was a message but I took it as private without any particular meaning for anyone else but am happy to pass it on. Make what you will of it.

 

I was told to think more demographically.

 

Regards

DL

 

In regards to telepathy, I have experienced the ability to know things without direct evidence. I am a recovering addict and just before I would go "score" i would get this awful feeling in my stomach. Butterflies, if you will. Over the past five years, almost 99 percent of the time, when my s.o. would go out and start using while I was at home, I would get that same sensation in my stomach, without having direct evidence that he was out using. But, when he wouldn't come home, then my "feelings" were confirmed. It never, ever fails. Every time I get that knot in my stomach, he doesn't come home. So, how do I know these things? I don't know why we have that psychic bond. I can't explain it.

 

A better question is, why do I stay with him? Financial reasons which are personal, so don't ask, please.

 

Telepathy, to me, is not just a feeling. When you are in contact with another, you know it and so do they.

They will consider it a violation of their persons.

It is and only those as irreverent as I was will do it.

Knowing, and being effected by the depth of thought that travels to telepaths, has both pain and pleasure to it and to inflict this on others is wrong.

 

I would call your situation as more empathic than telepathic.

 

Regards

DL

 

DL, Telepathy is the ability to know something that you have no direct evidence for.

 

There is evidence that is supplied by another mind.

The victim is the proof of it. Telepathy is a two way communication.

 

Empathy is the ability to empathize with another person's situation or feelings. The two have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

 

I agree. Empathy is one way and your only evidence is a feeling that is not shared or communicated to the victim.

 

Maybe you misunderstand what empathy and telepathy are. Let me clarify. I have the ability to absolutely know through gut feeling that my partner is using.

 

Empathy would be the abilility to understand another person's feelings.

 

See the difference?

 

Telepathy (from the Greek τηλε, tele meaning "distant" and πάθη, pathe meaning "affliction"),[2] is the ostensible transfer of information on thoughts or feelings between individuals by means other than the five senses (See Psi).

 

Yes, two way for telepathy, not your one way empathy.

 

Regards

DL

[PandaPirate]

I don't mean to be rude, but is English your first language?

 

Empathy and Telepathy are nowhere NEAR the same thing or even in the same category.

 

Let me help you understand.

 

Let's say my mother had cancer. Then, let's say a friend or acquaitance's mother had cancer. We go talk about it over coffee and talk about how it's impacted our lives. We have the ability to empathize with the other person because we've both been in the same boat.

 

Telepathy is the ability to know something for which you have no direct evidence. For example, many mothers just "Know" something has happened to their child at the moment of their death.

 

Do you understand the difference?

 

If not, I can't help you.

[Guest Valk0010]

there might be more to this world then meets the eye, but it would only be deism, or some sort of universalism

[Greatest I am]

I don't mean to be rude, but is English your first language?

 

Empathy and Telepathy are nowhere NEAR the same thing or even in the same category.

 

Exactly what I indicated above.

 

Let me help you understand.

 

Let's say my mother had cancer. Then, let's say a friend or acquaitance's mother had cancer. We go talk about it over coffee and talk about how it's impacted our lives. We have the ability to empathize with the other person because we've both been in the same boat.

 

I agree. this is empathy.

 

Telepathy is the ability to know something for which you have no direct evidence.

 

The direct evidence is from the mind contacted.

 

For example, many mothers just "Know" something has happened to their child at the moment of their death.

 

Do you understand the difference?

 

Do you understand that she would have to telepathically touch his mind to trigger that empathic feeling?

 

Empathy is diected toward anothers pain or suffering.

 

Telepathy is the two way communication that empathy may be required.

 

Regards

DL

 

If not, I can't help you.

[Greatest I am]

there might be more to this world then meets the eye, but it would only be deism, or some sort of universalism

 

Telepathy and religions of any kind are not related.

 

The Deism I practice says that if there ever was a miracle working super God, then He was either absorbed or killed by the big bang. Either way, He does not exist today.

 

What kind of a God, who wants relevance to man, would allow 16,000 to starve to death daily. Any God that would, would not deserve anything but contempt from man.

 

Regards

DL

[PandaPirate]

there might be more to this world then meets the eye, but it would only be deism, or some sort of universalism

 

Telepathy and religions of any kind are not related.

 

The Deism I practice says that if there ever was a miracle working super God, then He was either absorbed or killed by the big bang. Either way, He does not exist today.

 

What kind of a God, who wants relevance to man, would allow 16,000 to starve to death daily. Any God that would, would not deserve anything but contempt from man.

 

Regards

DL

 

Let's try this again.

 

http://carmenleilani.blogs.com/transmutation/2008/06/empathy-vs-sympathy-vs-telepathy.html

 

Empathy vs Sympathy vs Telepathy . .

"Empathy may be painful to oneself: seeing the pain of others, especially as broadcasted by mass media, can cause one temporary or permanent clinical depression; a phenomenon which is sometimes called weltschmerz.

 

One must be careful not to confuse empathy with either sympathy, emotional contagion or telepathy. Sympathy is the feeling of compassion for another, the wish to see them better or happier, often described as "feeling sorry" for someone. Emotional contagion is when a person (especially a child or a person in a mob) identifies with strong emotions others are showing and becomes subject to the same emotions themselves. Telepathy is a controversial paranormal phenomenon, which differs in that empathy is based not upon the paranormal but upon sophisticated processing of what is seen and heard in the usual way.

 

Sympathy is, "I'm sorry for your pain."

Emotional Contagion is, "I feel your pain."

Empathy is, "I understand how you feel."

Telepathy is, "I know how you feel because I'm reading your mind.""

[Guest Valk0010]

Isnt deism just saying that there is a first cause that could give a shit about us

 

then what is this business about telepathy, isn't that prayer