Humanity And Earth

[OrdinaryClay]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

[bdp]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

 

 

...of COURSE you do...

[Skankboy]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

There's know way to truly predict what other paths our own development might have taken let alone what developmental path a different species that utilizes resources might take.

 

Any one of a million things might have happened to cause us to not be here in the same capacity we are now. But they did, so here we are.

 

Your argument is like the puddle exclaiming that the hole it's in MUST have been created for it. "Just look! I fit so perfectly!"

 

Humans are special. So are ants. So are elephants. So are squids.

[OrdinaryClay]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

There's know way to truly predict what other paths our own development might have taken let alone what developmental path a different species that utilizes resources might take.

 

Any one of a million things might have happened to cause us to not be here in the same capacity we are now. But they did, so here we are.

This would mean we are all the more special.

 

 

Your argument is like the puddle exclaiming that the hole it's in MUST have been created for it. "Just look! I fit so perfectly!"

 

Humans are special. So are ants. So are elephants. So are squids.

None of them have developed physics and can ponder the origin of the universe.

[bdp]

What do they ponder?

[bdp]

OC - I wish I knew your real name to address you thus - I'm bailing out of this and your other threads; I'm not contributing anything material to them, and what I've been writing has not been written in a respectful tone. I don't want to just be a crank taking up a lot of space. Enough people are willing to engage and debate you that I'm not needed here. And this time I promise to keep to my word, no more disruptions from me.

 

Kyle

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

Well we are special because we are here. We are special because we got to due what we have done.

More important question: does this need a theistic designer?

[OrdinaryClay]

Well we are special because we are here. We are special because we got to due what we have done.

More important question: does this need a theistic designer?

No, the fact that we are special does not require a designer per se, but this specialness when viewed in the total context makes a circumstantial case. In our courts of law people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. There is a lot to be said for circumstantial evidence. Science is finding we and our situation are far more special then we ever imagined.

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

Well we are special because we are here. We are special because we got to due what we have done.

More important question: does this need a theistic designer?

No, the fact that we are special does not require a designer per se, but this specialness when viewed in the total context makes a circumstantial case. In our courts of law people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. There is a lot to be said for circumstantial evidence. Science is finding we and our situation are far more special then we ever imagined.

You can be a deist.

And also, people can be convict on false circumstantial evidence.

[Kathlene]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

 

Clay, Im not sure I understand your argument here to be honest. Are you saying that if we last 500yrs another generation of humans wont have the natural resources to til the land? I dont understand what you mean by any species?

 

My thinking is to be honest, when oil runs dry, humans will find another resource to replace it in the way of research and technology. That's the way our world functions. It runs on supply and demand. When the oil supply runs out, there will be people out there researching the next viable thing, and in 500 yrs I can surely bet it will be another advancement of some sort. Money and greed and the desire to go further due to the curiosity of the human mind will always push us into the next frontier, so to speak. I tend to think the human species will be around for many years yet to come. Thats just my opinion though.

[OrdinaryClay]

Well we are special because we are here. We are special because we got to due what we have done.

More important question: does this need a theistic designer?

No, the fact that we are special does not require a designer per se, but this specialness when viewed in the total context makes a circumstantial case. In our courts of law people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. There is a lot to be said for circumstantial evidence. Science is finding we and our situation are far more special then we ever imagined.

You can be a deist.

And also, people can be convict on false circumstantial evidence.

I could, but I believe the evidence goes far beyond simply what I mention here. I believe in Christ for much greater reasons then simply what I mentioned here. In my life, in my view, the evidence is overwhelming that the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and His Christ exist and care for each one of us in a very special way as described in the New Testament.

 

Sorry, I did not see your second point. Yes, of course, I'm not saying our specialness is proof of God. It is simply evidence, in my view. I also have faith, and a testimony from the Holy Spirit that can never be replaced by evidence.

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

Well we are special because we are here. We are special because we got to due what we have done.

More important question: does this need a theistic designer?

No, the fact that we are special does not require a designer per se, but this specialness when viewed in the total context makes a circumstantial case. In our courts of law people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. There is a lot to be said for circumstantial evidence. Science is finding we and our situation are far more special then we ever imagined.

You can be a deist.

And also, people can be convict on false circumstantial evidence.

I could, but I believe the evidence goes far beyond simply what I mention here. I believe in Christ for much greater reasons then simply what I mentioned here. In my life, in my view, the evidence is overwhelming that the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and His Christ exist and care for each one of us in a very special way as described in the New Testament.

But by what evidence due you have to connect this god, to your christian god, outside of your own perception. This is a instance where GOD as a concept is 1 and Christianity is 3 how do you get through 2 and end up at Christianity, when three could be another religion.

[OrdinaryClay]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

 

Clay, Im not sure I understand your argument here to be honest. Are you saying that if we last 500yrs another generation of humans wont have the natural resources to til the land? I dont understand what you mean by any species?

 

My thinking is to be honest, when oil runs dry, humans will find another resource to replace it in the way of research and technology. That's the way our world functions. It runs on supply and demand. When the oil supply runs out, there will be people out there researching the next viable thing, and in 500 yrs I can surely bet it will be another advancement of some sort. Money and greed and the desire to go further due to the curiosity of the human mind will always push us into the next frontier, so to speak. I tend to think the human species will be around for many years yet to come. Thats just my opinion though.

Yes, I agree, we are innovative.

 

My first point is that the resources we needed to produce our modern civilization would not have existed had there been another species that consumed them. These resources were critical to our development as a technological species. It can be argued that we would not have developed into a 6.7 billion mass of humanity had we not had these assets to fuel our technology. These resources are needed to get the ball rolling in an industrial society. Our industrial society is what fueled our ability to further exploit other resources such as nuclear, etc ...

 

Secondly, an incidental point is that I doubt very much we will make another 500 years. Civilization is on a trajectory of catastrophe.

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

 

Clay, Im not sure I understand your argument here to be honest. Are you saying that if we last 500yrs another generation of humans wont have the natural resources to til the land? I dont understand what you mean by any species?

 

My thinking is to be honest, when oil runs dry, humans will find another resource to replace it in the way of research and technology. That's the way our world functions. It runs on supply and demand. When the oil supply runs out, there will be people out there researching the next viable thing, and in 500 yrs I can surely bet it will be another advancement of some sort. Money and greed and the desire to go further due to the curiosity of the human mind will always push us into the next frontier, so to speak. I tend to think the human species will be around for many years yet to come. Thats just my opinion though.

Yes, I agree, we are innovative.

 

My first point is that the resources we needed to produce our modern civilization would not have existed had there been another species that consumed them. These resources were critical to our development as a technological species. It can be argued that we would not have developed into a 6.7 billion mass of humanity had we not had these assets to fuel our technology. These resources are needed to get the ball rolling in an industrial society. Our industrial society is what fueled our ability to further exploit other resources such as nuclear, etc ...

 

Secondly, an incidental point is that I doubt very much we will make another 500 years. Civilization is on a trajectory of catastrophe.

Pretty sure you think it because it doesn't have god

[OrdinaryClay]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

 

Clay, Im not sure I understand your argument here to be honest. Are you saying that if we last 500yrs another generation of humans wont have the natural resources to til the land? I dont understand what you mean by any species?

 

My thinking is to be honest, when oil runs dry, humans will find another resource to replace it in the way of research and technology. That's the way our world functions. It runs on supply and demand. When the oil supply runs out, there will be people out there researching the next viable thing, and in 500 yrs I can surely bet it will be another advancement of some sort. Money and greed and the desire to go further due to the curiosity of the human mind will always push us into the next frontier, so to speak. I tend to think the human species will be around for many years yet to come. Thats just my opinion though.

Yes, I agree, we are innovative.

 

My first point is that the resources we needed to produce our modern civilization would not have existed had there been another species that consumed them. These resources were critical to our development as a technological species. It can be argued that we would not have developed into a 6.7 billion mass of humanity had we not had these assets to fuel our technology. These resources are needed to get the ball rolling in an industrial society. Our industrial society is what fueled our ability to further exploit other resources such as nuclear, etc ...

 

Secondly, an incidental point is that I doubt very much we will make another 500 years. Civilization is on a trajectory of catastrophe.

Pretty sure you think it because it doesn't have god

To be honest, I'd think it if I were a materialist or a theist. We are on a very bad course.

 

Being a Christian I believe in Christ's second coming and the tribulation talked about by Christ.

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

Well we are special because we are here. We are special because we got to due what we have done.

More important question: does this need a theistic designer?

No, the fact that we are special does not require a designer per se, but this specialness when viewed in the total context makes a circumstantial case. In our courts of law people are convicted all the time on circumstantial evidence. There is a lot to be said for circumstantial evidence. Science is finding we and our situation are far more special then we ever imagined.

You can be a deist.

And also, people can be convict on false circumstantial evidence.

I could, but I believe the evidence goes far beyond simply what I mention here. I believe in Christ for much greater reasons then simply what I mentioned here. In my life, in my view, the evidence is overwhelming that the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob and His Christ exist and care for each one of us in a very special way as described in the New Testament.

 

Sorry, I did not see your second point. Yes, of course, I'm not saying our specialness is proof of God. It is simply evidence, in my view. I also have faith, and a testimony from the Holy Spirit that can never be replaced by evidence.

People from other religions experience there god, are they right in claiming that there experience is evidence.

A example, ask a Muslim that has been on the Hajj to Mecca. They also have faith. How much does this qualify as evidence for you. Or to paraphrase william lane craig, a person when seeing that the evidence contradicts the holy spirit the holy spirit should be the way to go.

[OrdinaryClay]

People from other religions experience there god, are they right in claiming that there experience is evidence.

A example, ask a Muslim that has been on the Hajj to Mecca. They also have faith. How much does this qualify as evidence for you. Or to paraphrase william lane craig, a person that believes when the evidence contradicts the holy spirit the holy spirit should be the way to go.

I think we talked about this in a previous thread some, again all I can say is that the total set of evidence (including but not limited to the Holy Spirit) in my view points to Christ as the God worthy of worship and the one I will follow.

 

I think what William Lane Craig says is that he would believe even if there were no objective evidence because of the testimony of the Holy Spirit. I agree. This is very different from your paraphrase.

[Wizened Sage]

OrdinaryClay, you said, "I also have faith, and a testimony from the Holy Spirit that can never be replaced by evidence."

 

Just what is this "testimony from the Holy Spirit?" Did the spirit speak to you, or give you some sort of feeling? What?

[Wizened Sage]

OrdinaryClay, you said, "I also have faith, and a testimony from the Holy Spirit that can never be replaced by evidence."

 

Just what is this "testimony from the Holy Spirit?" Did the spirit speak to you, or give you some sort of feeling? What?

[Skankboy]

I think you missed the point of my analogy. The chances of us being here is 1:1 because it happened. It's only our perspective that makes us think the world was somehow "made" for us. We are not the most successful species on the planet, that would most likely be a bacteria of some sort.

 

My point was the question itself is based on (in my opinion) a biased premise - that humans are somehow "special", above and beyond all the other species on the planet. And that the planet seems to be "tuned" to promote humanity.

 

I believe you have it backwards, we are who we are BECAUSE of the conditions that existed on the earth at the time of our development. We "fit" because we've been put through the filter of our environment.

 

 

None of them have developed physics and can ponder the origin of the universe.

And so what? Why does that take away from their being special or make us more special?

 

My first point is that the resources we needed to produce our modern civilization would not have existed had there been another species that consumed them. These resources were critical to our development as a technological species. It can be argued that we would not have developed into a 6.7 billion mass of humanity had we not had these assets to fuel our technology. These resources are needed to get the ball rolling in an industrial society. Our industrial society is what fueled our ability to further exploit other resources such as nuclear, etc ...

Would the world look like it does today? Of course not. Would we have never developed up to some kind of industrial age? Possibly. Again, the question is flawed. We used what was there. A million different alternative earths could be imagined where other life developed instead of us, where we developed completely different because of differing resources.

 

How do you know a society didn't exist millions of years ago that has already used up some resource we aren't even aware of? Maybe if they hadn't, we'd have flying cars and free energy!

 

Secondly, an incidental point is that I doubt very much we will make another 500 years. Civilization is on a trajectory of catastrophe.

You and every generation before you has believed this. That's why most civilizations have a myth about a previous "golden age". Granted, you may be right, but that would only be a coincidence in my opinion...

[Petrel]

If Homo Sapiens were to last another 500 years, unlikely, but let's assume. Then any species capable of mining resources would have nothing left to exploit just as we would have had nothing to exploit had a species capable of mining existed prior to us. For example, had all the oil been drawn before us it can be argued we would not have developed technologically as we have.

 

This is just one among many many ways we are special and very unique. It is like the planet was preloaded for Humanity. Of course, I believe that was part of God's plan.

So your argument is "There must be a God, because we're fucking up this planet so it will be no use to anyone when we're done"?

[Legion]

Civilization is on a trajectory of catastrophe.

Maybe and maybe not.

 

How do you know this? Do you have a sufficient understanding to make specific predictions and give explanations? Or do you just feel this in your gut?

[Petrel]

I think you missed the point of my analogy. The chances of us being here is 1:1 because it happened. It's only our perspective that makes us think the world was somehow "made" for us. We are not the most successful species on the planet, that would most likely be a bacteria of some sort.

 

My point was the question itself is based on (in my opinion) a biased premise - that humans are somehow "special", above and beyond all the other species on the planet. And that the planet seems to be "tuned" to promote humanity.

 

I believe you have it backwards, we are who we are BECAUSE of the conditions that existed on the earth at the time of our development. We "fit" because we've been put through the filter of our environment.

Yes, if the earth were barely habitable it would be, "There must be a God, because we hardly have enough resources to survive, so clearly divine intervention made it possible for us to live at all."

[florduh]

I also have faith, and a testimony from the Holy Spirit that can never be replaced by evidence.

Checkmate.

 

A rational discussion is out of the question. You win.

[Legion]

I also have faith, and a testimony from the Holy Spirit that can never be replaced by evidence.

Checkmate.

 

A rational discussion is out of the question. You win.