Science Opened My Eyes

[Not_Scarevangelist]

s a teenager I was not very interested in religion. I thought I was happy and had everything I needed – friends, a girlfriend, excellent grades, I was a winner of nationwide scholastic contests. After graduating in high school my girlfriend and I were accepted to universities located far from each other which forced us to break up. It was a difficult time for me, I felt lonely and thought nobody loved me.

 

One day I left the campus for a stroll and met a group of people who asked, "Is everything OK?“ They proceeded to assure me that no many how many problems I thought I had, or fears that the world was collapsing, that there was somebody who loved me more than I could know. Even more than my parents. "His name" they added, smiling, that his name was "Jesus Christ, and he came to save your soul."

 

That was how I came to join an Evangelical organization. I needed somebody to love and Jesus was that person. I felt that he loved me as much as I loved and needed him. It was no long after I joined the organization when I was asked what I studied. I replied : "Molecular biology." "Hey, that's interesting. Do you accept the theory of evolution?" "Well, yes, of course," I said. "You should know that's a false theory, A theory in crisis! Many modern scientists no longer believe in evolution but accept what the Bible says." Curious, I asked, "What does the Bible say?" "That the earth is young, between 6000 and 10,000 years old. There's no evolution, all species were created by God just like it's described in Genesis."

 

After our conversation they invited me to see a Creationist film. I accepted and found the movie convincing. It focused on the impossibility of evolution, and discussed the complexity of eyes and bacterial flagellum. Soon I became a Young Earth Creationist and started attending a church. I listened to what the pastor told us and believed. I found another girlfriend and she told me that "God" have told her that I was the person she "had to marry." I was also "baptized in the Holy Spirit" and began "speaking in tongues." Those were happy days.

 

I believed what the Bible said, trusted my pastor, tithed, believed people were being healed miraculously, and hoped that Benny Hinn would come to Bulgaria.

 

But then my new girlfriend told me that God had lead her to date someone else, someone he had "showed to" her. How could this be? God had showed her that I was the person she "must marry." Is God double-minded? I didn't know what to do. I prayed. A lot. I asked Christian friends to pray for me. however, one woman who had prayed for me said, "God told me you're taking drugs." "What?" I shouted. "That's not true!" And it really wasn't. I've never taken marijuana let alone harder drugs, and I don't smoke and drink only beer.

 

Such jolting experiences woke me from my dogmatic slumber and jump started my rational scientific mind. I began thinking about what I believed and why. I started to doubt some fundamental doctrines. I admitted that the doctrine of hell didn't make sense to me and none of my believing friends was able to explain it. I came across Gary Amirault's website (tentmaker.org) where he explains why the doctrine of hell is false. I began questioning my belief that the Bible was without error. The questions and doubts multiplied fast, including those concerning the credibility of the Old Testament.

 

I graduated from University with a Bachelor's degree in Molecular Biology. I had developed critical thinking skills and so it was only natural that my creationist beliefs vanished after I learned about selfish DNA, the origin of the second human chromosome from the joining together of two chromosomes found in an ape-like ancestor. That was how I began to trust the theory of evolution. It was a solid theory that explained far more than any number of ad hoc creationist hypotheses.

 

Now I'm a liberal theist (or even agnostic) – I no longer Church, I don't fear threats of hell. I find it difficult to believe it even exists.

 

Svetoslav Alexandrov

[Shyone]

 

Now I'm a liberal theist (or even agnostic) – I no longer Church, I don't fear threats of hell. I find it difficult to believe it even exists.

 

Svetoslav Alexandrov

"God told me" is a real problem and always has been. You can recognize that it reflects only what someone thinks in their mind, even if they themselves actually believe they received a message from God.

 

This problem started with Moses (if you don't count the pre-Hebrew near eastern religions). It continued through the Inquisition, and today it influences politics and politicians.

 

Do you know how we know about Hell? It is written, "God told me..."

[Legion]

Svetoslav, that was an excellent testimony in my opinion. I think you were fortunate to experience this meeting of intellectual and emotional influences which catalyzed your escape from cognitive bondage. And I agree. I think science has a remarkable ability sometimes to provide explanations which utterly dwarf and marginalize the "explanations" of religions.

 

May your new found cognitive freedom be a bounty in your life.

[Not_Scarevangelist]

Thank you both for your replies. I'm glad you liked my... em, my testimony.

 

If we connect this:

 

Do you know how we know about Hell? It is written, "God told me..."

 

to this:

 

You can recognize that it reflects only what someone thinks in their mind, even if they themselves actually believe they received a message from God.

 

I really can't believe how cruel one may be to create such a horrible image.

 

I would really like to encourage posters here and tell them not to believe in Hell.

[Shyone]

Thank you both for your replies. I'm glad you liked my... em, my testimony.

 

If we connect this:

 

Do you know how we know about Hell? It is written, "God told me..."

 

to this:

 

You can recognize that it reflects only what someone thinks in their mind, even if they themselves actually believe they received a message from God.

 

I really can't believe how cruel one may be to create such a horrible image.

 

I would really like to encourage posters here and tell them not to believe in Hell.

I guess that's why were're here. It is the true "gospel" The truly good news.

[Not_Scarevangelist]

Exactly.

 

And yes... I ended my testimony with the words I have reached agnosticism. However, I'm going to ask a question to the more familiar members who are still at the level agnostics.

 

Do you count yourself as a TAP or a PAP agnostic?

 

This may sound as a blasphemy, but I count myself more like a PAP agnostic. Actually, I'm quite comfortable with this position. And looks like I don't care about seeking any more evidence/lack of evidence of God. At least for now.

[agnosticator]

Do you count yourself as a TAP or a PAP agnostic?

 

This may sound as a blasphemy, but I count myself more like a PAP agnostic. Actually, I'm quite comfortable with this position. And looks like I don't care about seeking any more evidence/lack of evidence of God. At least for now.

 

Hi Not_Scarevangelist,

 

I don't really know if either of these labels describe my position: God can't be proven or disproven to exist. Therefore, God is unknowable. Let alone that God seems to be undefinable. I don't believe God exists, yet I don't know. This seems to describe me as an agnostic atheist. But I can see it as also being a PAP, though I am open to evidence. I don't like labels because they fail to provide an accurate description of what I think.

[HRDWarrior]

Hello and welcome to the forum.

 

As for the labels, it seems that there is a lot of gray and as many opinions. For example, I've settled on the label of "weak" atheist for myself - basically, I don't see evidence of god-being(s) and I personally do not think there is/are one/any, but I could be proven wrong.

 

Like someone at my free thinkers group pointed out, there are very few "true" (or strong) atheists - those who would deny the existence of a god even with proof, and since most atheists believe what they do. due to the lack of evidence, there aren't too many who would deny cold hard proven evidence to the contrary.

 

When I still leaned towards the idea of there maybe being a god I called myself agnostic. My husband is a deist - he thinks there is probably some supernatural being out there, but not one we can know, talk to, or gives a rat's ass about us humans. He is still in the intelligent design camp as well.

[dB-Paradox]

Excellent testimony! The title is actually what caught my eye. Like you, I used to be a YEC. I eventually started moving toward OEC and soon after atheism. I don't know enough about evolution, since most of my "education" on the subject was Christian-based. I've got Richard Dawkins' book "The Greatest Show On Earth" but haven't got into it yet. At this point, I don't really care how we got here. If there's no god, evolution seems the best answer right now. If there is a god, it's not doing much to convince the skeptics.

 

Anyway, welcome here...although it looks like you've been around for a while.

[JoeHoya]

Welcome. I was never a YEC, though I was definitely gung-ho about OEC and ID bac in my fundie days. As far as God (him/her/it)self goes, the statement that best describes the way I feel is, "If there is a God, why does the universe look exactly as it would if there weren't one?" Not being able to answer that question was probably the last blow that killed my faith. There may be a God - I don't think there's evidence for it. I think, given our lack of understanding about the origin of the universe, you can philosophize your way into a disinterested deism pretty easily. In any case, any creator God doesn't look anything like the venal and self-contradictory Bible God.

 

I'm curious - I gathered from your post that you're from Bulgaria, and you weren't really exposed to evangelical Christians until college. Is evangelicalism anything like as prevalent there as it is in the states? Your English is superb, by the way.

[Franko47]

It's interesting to hear about this kind of testimony coming from Bulgaria, as it is so similar to the North American experience of Bible-based Protestant Fundamentalism.

 

 

I guess some of us are used to thinking that you're all "Catholic" over there, or something.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Nice post!

 

It's amazing what we believed when we look back on it. I used to mostly ignore the scientific questions because they "weren't necessary." I had talked myself into a blind faith. It didn't take long once I grew weary of praying and getting no answers before those old questions started appearing. I had no creationist defenses and my "faith" was easily overrun.

 

I've heard "God told me" many times. Including from a youth pastor that I completely trusted: "God told me that college isn't for you." I blindly accepted his analysis(I'm the intellectual type, college obviously meant disaster for my faith to him). Now, I'm sitting here with no college and I just got laid off from the job that "God told me" about.

 

Most prophetic statements are just too vague anyway. In a church of 100+ people, I can pick a common ailment and have a pretty good chance of guessing that someone there is affected by it.

[Not_Scarevangelist]

I'm curious - I gathered from your post that you're from Bulgaria, and you weren't really exposed to evangelical Christians until college. Is evangelicalism anything like as prevalent there as it is in the states? Your English is superb, by the way.

 

Actually, the testimony was edited and corrected by Edward T. Babinski, who is a writer - "Leaving the Fold". This explains why my English looks "superb".

[★ Citsonga ★]

After our conversation they invited me to see a Creationist film. I accepted and found the movie convincing. It focused on the impossibility of evolution, and discussed the complexity of eyes and bacterial flagellum. Soon I became a Young Earth Creationist and started attending a church.

 

I was also duped for years by creationism. I was raised in church, though, and was familiar with the creation story and believed the bible to be true before I ever heard of "creationism." Science was never encouraged in my surroundings, bible study and christianity were. So, as one uninformed in science, when I did came across creationism, I latched onto it. I was gung-ho for "creation science," erroneously thinking that evolution was a scapegoat to avoid having to submit to a creator.

 

I used to be a YEC.... I don't know enough about evolution, since most of my "education" on the subject was Christian-based.... At this point, I don't really care how we got here. If there's no god, evolution seems the best answer right now. If there is a god, it's not doing much to convince the skeptics.

 

Same here.

 

I've got Richard Dawkins' book "The Greatest Show On Earth" but haven't got into it yet.

 

That book is on my wanna-read list.

[JohnK]

 

I graduated from University with a Bachelor's degree in Molecular Biology. I had developed critical thinking skills and so it was only natural that my creationist beliefs vanished after I learned about selfish DNA, the origin of the second human chromosome from the joining together of two chromosomes found in an ape-like ancestor. That was how I began to trust the theory of evolution. It was a solid theory that explained far more than any number of ad hoc creationist hypotheses.

 

 

Congratulations on your degree and for escaping Christianity! Unfortunately, so many people buy into the claims of young earth creationists, even those who may be scientifically literate. It's worth pointing out that ALL young earth creationists are religious. This fact alone seriously damages their credibility as "scientists": if there was so much evidence that the earth is just thousands of years old, shouldn't many more scientists take that viewpoint, regardless of whether they are religious or not? It is painfully obvious that YECs believe and espouse what they do because of their religion, and not anything else.

 

And I also agree that human chromosome #2 is a great factoid both to combat anti-evolutionists and for general proof that we evolved from primates. It's because of facts like this that young earth creationism and intelligent design utterly fail as science, because neither camp would have a good explanation for why our second chromosome is the fusion of the 2p and 2q primate chromosomes, unless we descended from such primates.

 

I hope you will be able to use your science degree to broaden our ever-increasing knowledge of the earth and the universe, and/or to teach science to our future generations. Good luck to you!

[★ Citsonga ★]

It's worth pointing out that ALL young earth creationists are religious.

 

As an outsider, that is a problem. For the YECs, though, it can actually serve to reinforce their faith. You see, when people "recognize" the "evidence" that the geological layers were laid in one global flood, they automatically put their trust in gawd. From the YEC perspective, it makes perfect sense that all YECers are religious, so they don't see it as a problem.

[JohnK]

It's worth pointing out that ALL young earth creationists are religious.

 

As an outsider, that is a problem. For the YECs, though, it can actually serve to reinforce their faith. You see, when people "recognize" the "evidence" that the geological layers were laid in one global flood, they automatically put their trust in gawd. From the YEC perspective, it makes perfect sense that all YECers are religious, so they don't see it as a problem.

 

Yeah, I guess I was speaking more to people who are looking from the outside in, or who are on the fence. Evolution and "old earth" are accepted by both religious and non-religious people, but YEC is just accepted and espoused by the religious. I would think this fact should provide a red flag or a warning sign to outsiders that YEC is fueled by religious dogma rather than objective scientific research.

[hamashiachfollower]

I'm wondering what Creation viewpoints you studied. I find their arguments to be highly convincing through utilizing critical thinking and logic. And I also have a college degree and took college biology. When I first heard someone say that the Earth was 6000 years old...I laughed him out of the room. Now I wish I could have apologized to him.

 

A need to love is fine, but understanding and defining that love is another issue in and of itself. A covenant is required to be made, not just having a good old sky daddy in the clouds. I think the westernization of the church is a negative thing, and has contributed to a lot of people falling away from what this Theology is supposed to be all about.

[Shyone]

I'm wondering what Creation viewpoints you studied. I find their arguments to be highly convincing through utilizing critical thinking and logic. And I also have a college degree and took college biology. When I first heard someone say that the Earth was 6000 years old...I laughed him out of the room. Now I wish I could have apologized to him.

 

A need to love is fine, but understanding and defining that love is another issue in and of itself. A covenant is required to be made, not just having a good old sky daddy in the clouds. I think the westernization of the church is a negative thing, and has contributed to a lot of people falling away from what this Theology is supposed to be all about.

http://talkorigins.org/

[hamashiachfollower]

http://talkorigins.org/

 

So what? www.trueorigin.org

[bdp]

I'm wondering what Creation viewpoints you studied. I find their arguments to be highly convincing through utilizing critical thinking and logic. And I also have a college degree and took college biology. When I first heard someone say that the Earth was 6000 years old...I laughed him out of the room.

 

...like I'm laughing now.

[hamashiachfollower]

plus I've got a ton of other resources pro and con Creation Science (you know pharyngula, science blogs, the ncse, pandasthumb, pbs take your pick. I haven't been impressed by any of them. Oh I forgot Glenn Morton's site. I have a list http://www.creationism.org/ and here - http://www.creationresource.org/helpful_links.htm with the exception of dr. dino's stupid site. But I don't think this is the right time to get into that.

[hamashiachfollower]

I'm wondering what Creation viewpoints you studied. I find their arguments to be highly convincing through utilizing critical thinking and logic. And I also have a college degree and took college biology. When I first heard someone say that the Earth was 6000 years old...I laughed him out of the room.

 

...like I'm laughing now.

 

You probably don't have the least bit of an inkling of a clue what Creation Science is. As a matter of fact, you're probably one of those people who thinks Creation Science doesn't have a theory.

[hamashiachfollower]

But see, with the onesidedness of Evolutionist arguments, I"m not at all surprised. On the other hand, I'm well studied on both sides.

[Deva]

You probably don't have the least bit of an inkling of a clue what Creation Science is. As a matter of fact, you're probably one of those people who thinks Creation Science doesn't have a theory.

 

 

Yeah, its got a theory - God did it.