The Growth Of Myth And Oral Tradition

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

A common apologist claim, is that the rate of the growth of myth is to short, for any part of the gospels to be embellished.

 

Also, I heard a argument, that the oral tradition of hebrew people was closed and carefully monitored, so unlike most oral cultures is was better at being accurate.

 

Also, what is specifically Hebrew Oral Tradition, what kind of intricacies does it have, and how accurate would it be.

 

Just some conversation points, but all thoughts are welcomed.

[oddbird1963]

Valkyrie,

 

You raise some excellent questions. They are quite worthy material for fruitful discussion.

 

A common apologist claim, is that the rate of the growth of myth is to short, for any part of the gospels to be embellished.

 

That's supposing that the original progenitors of the gospel message intended the message to have a 1 to 1, blow by blow, correspondence with historical fact. It also assumes that the original progenitors didn't propagate an account of a resurrection which was spawned by the faith-based, wishful-thinking delusion of a handful of people.

 

In other words, despite the strong claims of Apologists to the contrary, it is not such an established fact that the time period between propagating oral traditions and writing them down was too short.

 

In fact, at least one scholar, Werner H. Kelber (The Oral and the Written Gospel : The Hermeneutics of Speaking and Writing in the Synoptic Tradition, Mark, Paul, and Q), sees in the process of writing down the gospels a "correction" or reorientation of the oral tradition. Kelber is specifically concerned with the gospel of Mark.

 

From what Kelber proposes, I conclude that even if the oral traditions had been maintained almost syllable by syllable in agreement with the "original" oral telling of the gospel, the writer of Mark recast the traditions to reflect the telling of the gospel he wanted to communicate.

 

 

Also, I heard a argument, that the oral tradition of hebrew people was closed and carefully monitored, so unlike most oral cultures is was better at being accurate.

 

Remember, these oral traditions spread in non Hebrew communities well outside the ethos of 1st and 2nd century Palestine. Even though the people in the gospel accounts are of Hebrew origin, the faith communities in which the traditions spread were hardly Hebrew in culture and tradition. So, even if the first community formulated and spread the oral traditions in Hebrew fashion, there were plenty of links in the chain where the Hebrew influence could be overshadowed and ignored.

[mwc]

A common apologist claim, is that the rate of the growth of myth is to short, for any part of the gospels to be embellished.

I quoted from Lucian, and this particular writing actually (The Death of Peregrine), in another post just the other day. This is a good time to post a bit from near the end of the story (at this point Proteus Peregrine had just killed himself on a huge funeral pyre and Lucian had decided to leave):

 

At this point I met a number of people coming out to assist at the spectacle, thinking to find Proteus still alive; for among the various rumours of the preceding day, one had been, that before entering the fire he was to greet the rising sun, which to be sure is said to be the Brahmin practice. Most of them turned back when I told them that all was over; all but those enthusiasts who could not rest without seeing the identical spot, and snatching some relic from the flames. After this, you may be sure, my work was cut out for me: I had to tell them all about it, and to undergo a minute cross-examination from everybody. If it was some one I liked the look of, I confined myself to plain prose, as in the present narrative: but for the benefit of the curious simple, I put in a few dramatic touches on my own account. No sooner had Proteus thrown himself upon the kindled pyre, than there was a tremendous earthquake, I informed them; the ground rumbled beneath us; and a vulture flew out from the midst of the flames, and away into the sky, exclaiming in human accents

 

'I rise from Earth, I seek Olympus.'

 

They listened with amazement and shuddering reverence. 'Did the vulture fly East or West?' they wanted to know. I answered whichever came uppermost. On getting back to Olympia, I stopped to listen to an old man who was giving an account of these proceedings; a credible witness, if ever there was one, to judge by his long beard and dignified appearance in general. He told us, among other things, that only a short time before, just after the cremation, Proteus had appeared to him in white raiment; and that he had now left him walking with serene countenance in the Colonnade of Echoes, crowned with olive; and on the top of all this he brought in the vulture, solemnly swore that he had seen it himself flying away from the pyre,--my own vulture, which I had but just let fly, as a satire on crass stupidity!

 

Only think what work we shall have with him hereafter! Significant bees will settle on the spot; grasshoppers beyond calculation will chirrup; crows will perch there, as over Hesiod's grave,--and all the rest of it. As for statues, several, I know, are to be put up at once, by Elis and other places, to which, I understand, he had sent letters. These letters, they say, were dispatched to almost all cities of any importance: they contain certain exhortations and schemes of reform, as it were a legacy. Certain of his followers were specially appointed by him for this service: Couriers to the Grave and Grand Deputies of the Shades were to be their titles.

I've highlighted the part of most interest from this passage.

 

With Lucian fully admitting to "embellishing" the tale for those some choice people and then those parroting his version, but as-if they had experienced it for themselves, the wonderful oral tradition may not be entirely trustworthy. The thing is even the name of the dead man in the story works out to "Wandering Shapeshifter" and if you read the tale yourself it's easy to see why (even though both names were used in antiquity as well).

 

Anyhow, Lucian does a good job with this little story. Makes you wonder if it really happened?

 

mwc