Legion Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 ... no one's going to play with you. I've got my own sandbox. And you're not invited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squint Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 squint, you keep your terms, and no one's going to play with you. If that's okay with you, that's fine, I'm just saying... Ah, but you see MOST of you have already provided more than adequate subjective reflections, and in that you have already served me and my views, whatever they 'may' be, so thanks! Some people hold up a 'bible' and say I now know God, now SERVE my views. Other people hold up a dumbell and make nearly identical statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 She gets special treatment. Any other poster of xian pablum would be soundly thrashed, but Kathleen is nice, and so it's kid glove treatment. Maybe there should be a "deluded christian, but nice about it" badge so we'd know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigile Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Kathlene is a human being, and, overall, a decent one. Kathlene is a pretty average example of the human race in the thinking, feeling, and behaving departments. Most people here are pretty average and unspecial in the thinking and feeling and behaving departments. Phanta No one said she wasn't. I disagree, Vigil. A clear statement was made about Kathlene's mental capacity and mental health; her retreat was written specifically in response to that post. Because such comments can be harmful to sentient beings, and that seemed to be the case here, I felt mitigating damage by offering my own very different opinion of her mental state was the right thing to do. Kathlene's didn't retreat because she is Christian. She retreated because nasty, personal attacks hurt. They're fucking mean. Phanta Well, I don't agree there is a need for personal attacks either and while I don't question her mental health I do question whether she is using her brain. She herself has stated she is willing to let her pastor do her thinking for her. IMO this isn't mentally healthy. I don't think it does her or anyone else any good to coddle her. So perhaps we should just try and get others to agree to not make it personal but also allow for the free flow of opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 squint, you keep your terms, and no one's going to play with you. If that's okay with you, that's fine, I'm just saying... Ah, but you see MOST of you have already provided more than adequate subjective reflections, and in that you have already served me and my views, whatever they 'may' be, so thanks! Some people hold up a 'bible' and say I now know God, now SERVE my views. Other people hold up a dumbell and make nearly identical statements. well, then, fuck off. must really piss you off that the rest of the world isn't perfect like you. twat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 well, then, fuck off. must really piss you off that the rest of the world isn't perfect like you. twat. But, but, he has The TruthTM. We're just not intelligent enough to understand. So far, it's been cotton candy: lots of fluff but little content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 ... no one's going to play with you. I've got my own sandbox. And you're not invited. When I was a wee lad, I lost my sandbox because my friend and I kept burying his Chihuahua in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agnosticator Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 If you use terms (like "God of reflections") that only you (and perhaps your therapist) understand, all we are asking is a bit of clarity. I think you're onto something there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 He's just licking his own balls to show us he can do it. Fuck him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sconnor Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Ah, but you see MOST of you have already provided more than adequate subjective reflections, and in that you have already served me and my views, whatever they 'may' be, so thanks! Arrogant asshole. --S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 ...I should rather have said, FUCK off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShackledNoMore Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Others have said that this is not biblical, that it is glurge, that it is a shallow, inspirational story that is overlays a set of core beliefs that it is not necessarily consistent with to make xianity more palatable, more "inspirational." I agree. What I want to know is what do you believe? Do you believe whatever feel good glurge randomly comes your way without regard to whatever theology your chosen branch of xianity has to offer, or do you believe the core tenants of xianity? What's the real story with your god? While you feel good, has he condemned 99% of humanity, including the most benevolent of those who were unfortunate enough to not pick the right religion, to hell? You are good, decent person, a lot nicer than your god. You ignore his condemnation of billions of decent people. You don't think about the hideous message just underneath the surface of feel good pieces like that. God plans on throwing his entire creation into eternal flames for eating a piece of fruit, and then not being gullible enough to believe naive, inconsistent mythology with nary a shred of evidence. He suspected this would happen in advance (ignoring questions of his being omniscient yet not knowing the future because we have "free will"). Just so we could "choose to love," while he hides, he is willing to torment 99% of his creation for eternity. And then Max Lucado twists this ghastly tale into this "inspirational" story that is supposed to illustrate this god's infinite love. I know you've had enough with opinions on the piece, and not to be cruel or harsh, but I simply do not understand how you have so totally disengaged your brain for the sort of emotional platitudes offered by purveyors of the feel good gospel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdp Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 'squint' you're on ignore - masturbate to someone else's posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chefranden Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 Hey all, I am just putting a story in here by Max Lucado about the sin of Adam. I've read it and thought it was pretty powerful. Wanted to see any opinions on it. ! The Choice... Turn or burn. Some choice. I know you think you've laid a beautiful Easter egg here, but it is a turd. At least it isn't all garishly formatted like the usual forward, thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Adam's Sin. The biblical version: Genesis 2 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, "You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die." Adam is commanded not to eat from the tree of knowledge. Genesis 3 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?" 2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' " 4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil." Eve, who wasn't present earlier, was apparently brought up to speed at another time. The serpent, was "more crafty" than the other animals. Why make crafty animals in a garden paradise? Who knows? But there was more than one and this one was the best of the best. Oddly enough the serpent knows the rules and has an idea as to what was said in the conversation that took place about the whole thing so he could use it against Eve. We all know that she and Adam eat the fruit and things hit the fan... Genesis 3 14 So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. [...] 16 To the woman he said, "I will greatly increase your pains in childbearing; with pain you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." 17 To Adam he said, "Because you listened to your wife and ate from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat of it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat of it all the days of your life. [...] 19 By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." Another odd thing happens here. In the midst of this supposed first "sin" we have "god" just sort of standing around like it doesn't burn like a face full of acid. He's not hiding all invisible like behind some "veil" of purity and other nonsense. He's standing face-to-face with the first, and apparently only, three sinners in existence. That would mean he's staring down 100% sin levels and doing just fine and he's doing it in his physical form. They're all alive and kicking and he's not fleeing to the Nth dimension of god-space. Strange that. So what does happen? He curses the serpent. Now he's cursed above all livestock. The livestock must have done something pretty bad to get cursed before all this went down but I guess we'll never know what it was. Probably just crapping and belching all over the place and releasing all that methane. Anyhow, the serpent has to crawl and eat dust the rest of his life. Hope it's short. Eve's up and she gets painful childbirth and submission to her husband. Not too bad really compared to something like dust eating and crawling everywhere. Then Adam gets busted. Not so much for eating the fruit but for listening to his wife resulting in his eating the fruit. His punishment? The ground gets cursed. Sucks to be it. But this is just so he'll have to work hard to get food out of the ground until he dies. Uh oh. Could the serpent have been wrong? Does this really mean that eating the fruit meant the curse of death? Genesis 3 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." [...] 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life. God acknowledges to the other gods (that don't exist but he talks to anyway because he's lonely and made the mistake of creating hairless apes instead of peers that he could truly relate to) that his people are now that them in that they know good and evil. Knowing the difference between good and evil is a trait, up to that point, that only a god possessed. His next move is telling. He removes the humans from the garden so the may not take from the tree of life and "live forever." Not eating from the tree of life means no living forever. They were ignorant of this tree. Had they known and eaten from that tree then they would have both eternal life and knowledge of good and evil. But he prevented them from gaining the other godly trait the garden held. If humans lived in the garden, and obeyed the command to never eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and they happened upon the tree of life at random (which seemed to be the plan) then only those who were ignorant of good and evil, and were forever willing to forgo that knowledge, were ever "destined" to gain eternal life. The serpent messed up the entire "plan." Nonetheless, the story shows that this Anyone and anything can physically be with this particular god and still freely choose to do whatever they please. This particular god can physically be among "sin" and "sinners" without any problems whatsoever to either the created beings or the god itself. The god in this story handed out all the punishments for this "sin" as soon as it was committed. The humans were built with a finite lifespan and only the tree of life could alter that to something longer but they were not made aware of this fact until it was too late. The serpent was not the only crafty animal at the time. Cows were apparently already cursed for some unknown reason and possibly the most cursed until the serpent caused Eve to eat from the tree. mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 Adam's Sin. The biblical version: ... Brilliant post - really enjoyed it, thanks mwc. I am convinced that if Christians knew how God is portrayed in the Bible, they would be horrified. The trouble with religion (and it's inherent cognitive dissonance) is that the practitioners make God fit their own view of how/who He should be, without really reading the hand-book. So ... we get all the different views of God and then we get the Biblical version. Huge difference - every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The story is unbiblical; it posits "free will" which the Apostle Paul argues against, and "immortal souls", a belief which owes its existence to Greek philosophy. Futher, the story still leaves "hell" intact. Non-Christians go there and burn forever. Anne Frank is burning in hell, Kathlene. You are Winston Smith in his kind mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightflight Posted March 21, 2010 Share Posted March 21, 2010 The story is unbiblical; it posits "free will" which the Apostle Paul argues against, and "immortal souls", a belief which owes its existence to Greek philosophy. Futher, the story still leaves "hell" intact. Non-Christians go there and burn forever. Anne Frank is burning in hell, Kathlene. You are Winston Smith in his kind mode. Ack! I meant to say O'Brien in his kind mode. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Our moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. To think that Eve and Adam sinned by reaching out for it would mean that man is a better man without it. Modern dogma calls Genesis the fall of man while older religions from which the story was plagiarized believe that genesis was a fall UP, so to speak, to man reaching the height of what he could be. Only foolish non thinkers would want to give up their moral sense or if time could be breached, stop Eve from creating the beginning of man's glorious history. Thank God Eve ignored God's foolish command. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Our moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. To think that Eve and Adam sinned by reaching out for it would mean that man is a better man without it. Modern dogma calls Genesis the fall of man while older religions from which the story was plagiarized believe that genesis was a fall UP, so to speak, to man reaching the height of what he could be. Only foolish non thinkers would want to give up their moral sense or if time could be breached, stop Eve from creating the beginning of man's glorious history. Thank God Eve ignored God's foolish command. Regards DL Good point. Who says the Knowledge of Good and Evil was a fall in the direction of down? Wow! It was actually a step UP. And funny how religion (especially Christianity) has tried its utmost to suppress knowledge and scientific endeavors ever since. Kind of fits the profile, doesn't it. Brilliant post Greatest I Am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vixentrox Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Great post MWC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Our moral sense comes from the knowledge of good and evil. To think that Eve and Adam sinned by reaching out for it would mean that man is a better man without it. Modern dogma calls Genesis the fall of man while older religions from which the story was plagiarized believe that genesis was a fall UP, so to speak, to man reaching the height of what he could be. Only foolish non thinkers would want to give up their moral sense or if time could be breached, stop Eve from creating the beginning of man's glorious history. Thank God Eve ignored God's foolish command. Regards DL Good point. Who says the Knowledge of Good and Evil was a fall in the direction of down? Wow! It was actually a step UP. And funny how religion (especially Christianity) has tried its utmost to suppress knowledge and scientific endeavors ever since. Kind of fits the profile, doesn't it. Brilliant post Greatest I Am. Wow. Christian sites demonize me for the same view as what brings me a, I have to quote it, just can't help it “Brilliant post Greatest I Am.” I think I will like it here. LOL Thanks. Just for that, I will share another secret and test the boundaries of the moderators with you. I found a picture of God. Now I know what this means. Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Genesis 1:26-28 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
par4dcourse Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Preachin' will get the mods attention. Good jokes get you a pat on the back, and that are one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevoMuso Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Preachin' will get the mods attention. Good jokes get you a pat on the back, and that are one! LOL. Yup - try and "witness" to someone in the Testimonies section to shepherd them back to the Fold, and you will be shut down immediately. But your picture of God? Gets more of these: You will feel very much at home here - we often digress onto tangents of side-splitting mirth and irreverent banter, but all in the midst of rational and brilliant debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatest I am Posted March 24, 2010 Share Posted March 24, 2010 Preachin' will get the mods attention. Good jokes get you a pat on the back, and that are one! Thank God for that. So to speak. Regards DL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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