cobrakai Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 I started thinking about how much of a joke the idea of "moderate" or "progressive" Christianity is. These are people that go to church and babble on endlessly about their faith but really have no idea what they are really believing and no idea who their god really is. All of them do this but at the same time enjoy things that are not meant for them; even told by their "incredible" doctrine to not even take part in. I started thinking about these clueless saps (including myself at one time) that walk around and have their lives enriched by art, music, movies, technology, sports, theater, medicine (even birth control and condoms), food and drink. All of these priceless things originated and evolved because of secular humanism. It started to make me think that if you actually followed the bible, really followed it, what should Christians actually be enjoying? It pisses me off when I see these mega churches playing rock 'n' roll because if they would have had their way in the 50's and 60s we wouldn't even have all the great music that has been created. I want to say "this is not for you"! Countless christians that benefit from medical research that was probably at some point forbidden by churches. If you look at the basic idea of sports in our culture, does it really fit a christian mold? You have countless christians who want to hinder stem cell reasearch, but you know if they discovered great cures, the christians would be the first in line and somehow give credit to god. It seems you have a lot of believers who constantly twist and mold their faith so that they can still enjoy life. If we point to a verse that is a smoking gun WE are usually "taking it out of context." So I need help people. I know many of you on here are much more educated on the subject than I am. What are some rules that christians just can't get around even though they think they can? What are some more specific examples of pleasures and activities that Christians shouldn't be part of even though they are? What amazing things in life would not even exist today if Christians had always got their way through history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Non-Redneck Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 Space travel and anything that uses satellites. If the Christian church had its way, that the earth was flat and the center of the universe would still be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Moderator florduh Posted March 17, 2010 Super Moderator Share Posted March 17, 2010 What amazing things in life would not even exist today if Christians had always got their way through history? Well, we certainly wouldn't be discussing this over the Internet. Those of us who survived the plagues would be communicating with hand delivered scrolls. The advancement of social systems and attitudes goes hand in hand with the technological advances. Western civilization has largely overcome religion's resistance to change and enlightenment. To get an idea of how it might be if we hadn't overcome, take a look at modern Muslim societies. They have hardly evolved at all by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vomit Comet Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 To be fair, it wasn't until Copernicus and Galileo came along that science really began to butt heads with the church, forcing them to go their separate ways. (It wasn't that heavy with Copernicus, either. Prior to Galileo, his heliocentric theory was seen by the church as being little more than a nifty math trick.) Prior to that, since science (such as it was in late medieval times) didn't contradict the doctrines, or Aristotle for that matter (the Catholic Church was obsessed with Aristotle for some reason), and much of it was done by monks, it was all gravy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 To be fair, it wasn't until Copernicus and Galileo came along that science really began to butt heads with the church, forcing them to go their separate ways. (It wasn't that heavy with Copernicus, either. Prior to Galileo, his heliocentric theory was seen by the church as being little more than a nifty math trick.) Prior to that, since science (such as it was in late medieval times) didn't contradict the doctrines, or Aristotle for that matter (the Catholic Church was obsessed with Aristotle for some reason), and much of it was done by monks, it was all gravy. Well, that about sums it up then. The christians can partake of everything pre-Copernicus, and nothing that has developed since Copernicus. As they sit by candle light and sing Gregorian chants, the rest of the world can go on about its business. Of course, we will need to quarantine them because praying for leprosy doesn't work. ----------------------------------------- Having gotten my little jabs out of the way, the problem is that there is no one "school" of Christian or biblical thought. Elvis Presley was a Christian. So was just about anyone in science before, um, 1800 (maybe 1700). The only thing you can do is to take their own words and cast them back at them when the start using things developed for secular purposes (that would contravene religious teachings). A nice speech about Rock and Roll being "of the devil" would be a start. Research why vaccines were rejected by the church. And anesthesia, and caesarian sections, and... Unfortunately, you pretty much have to do this issue by issue. What were preachers in the American South saying about slavery before the civil war? It's all there - somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
♦ Fuego ♦ Posted March 17, 2010 Share Posted March 17, 2010 What's a Christian? The definition encompasses everyone from the whoremongering Episcopal elder I met to the strictest button-all-the-way-up-long-sleeve-shirt-when-you-swim conservative cult. The public face of Christianity currently is the mega churches. But we all know from our experiences that there are those who are only in church for the social fun, and those who really believe and fear damnation for the slightest infraction. The latter tend to be more literal about the scriptures. Then there is he vague in-between which is most of the church. They take some parts absolutely literal and "for today", and other parts that are inconvenient are ignored or "not for today". Thus it is difficult to make an accusation, because another brand of X will pop up and say, "Well WE don't believer that, and we're CHRISTIANS!". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I Love Dog Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 Where do we start? Imagine if all of the Christians in USA didn't work on the Sabbath accodring to god's law? Would the country grind to a halt? Damn right. All of the Christian capitalists would shriek and wail "Where are my profits"? How many Christians have gazed longingly at the cleavage of their neighbor's wife? Or at Beyonce's body, knowing she is married? How many Christians have body piercings, long hair(males) or tattoos? How many Christians haven't masturbated? How many Christians have stoned to death adulterers or killed a few homosexuals in god's name, 'cos he said to do it. How many Christians have killed people of other religions 'cos god said to do so? Earth's population 6.7 billion Christians 2.1 billion Leaves 4.6 billion people who don't worship the Christian god that will go straight to hell. This includes Hindus, Buddhists, Pagans, atheists, etc. Out of the 2.1 billion Christians the bible(the honest and truthful word of god) tells us: Those who won't get to heaven are homosexuals, bisexuals, handicapped people, mentally disabled, blind, deaf or dumb, criminals who haven't repented, people who died before they got to repent, little children who don't know about repentance, Christians who weren't really Christians, people who coveted their neighbor's wife, ox or ass, people who worked on the Sabbath, people who had sex before marriage, used contraception, had abortions, committed incest, people who worshiped graven images. those who committed adultery, those who masturbated while thinking of Jonas Bros, Michael Jackson. or Lady GaGa or Beyonce and any other thing that offended god. These add up to 2.7 billion minus 3 . What do we have left? 3 people who may get to heaven because they are possibly "true" Christians. Christianity is on the downrun and will become extinct. Belief in a god may take a little longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brakeman Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 ..Unfortunately, you pretty much have to do this issue by issue. What were preachers in the American South saying about slavery before the civil war? It's all there - somewhere. I suggest reading some Rev. Charles Carrol for starters. Google it... You'll wish you hadn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hereticzero Posted March 18, 2010 Share Posted March 18, 2010 ... Unfortunately, you pretty much have to do this issue by issue. What were preachers in the American South saying about slavery before the civil war? It's all there - somewhere. Yah, where I come from, my family still refers to that time as the War of Northern Aggression! Some preached that slavery was god's way of punishing races who pissed him off somewhere in the back pages of history and others taught slaves were better off being slaves because just look at the god-awful lives they had in Africa! They were made slaves for their own good, by God! Many preached that slavery was wrong and were working towards a government without slavery, then the North marched in and everything went to shit. I can remember a time, cuz I am just that old, when working on Sunday was frowned upon by everyone except bar owners. You had to buy everything before Sunday. Even today in Nebraska you cannot buy condoms or sanitary napkins, or alcohol at WalMart after midnight on Saturday until after noon on Sundays. I had not seen dark-age grocery stores since leaving Utah in the late 1970s, then I wound up in Nebraska, nanny state USA. Before that I lived in Wyoming where mileage between cities was estimated by six-packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagan Posted March 19, 2010 Share Posted March 19, 2010 What amazing things in life would not even exist today if Christians had always got their way through history? Well, we certainly wouldn't be discussing this over the Internet. Those of us who survived the plagues would be communicating with hand delivered scrolls. The advancement of social systems and attitudes goes hand in hand with the technological advances. Western civilization has largely overcome religion's resistance to change and enlightenment. To get an idea of how it might be if we hadn't overcome, take a look at modern Muslim societies. They have hardly evolved at all by comparison. Ironic, considering they were once the most advanced centres of learning in the known world. Until they met Christian Crusaders, whose irritating presence for a couple hundred years helped give rise to the religious fanatics which still dominate Islam today. My contribution: We would never play musical instruments and sing at the same time, and we would certainly not have drums. We wouldn't be able to read the bible in our own language. We wouldn't even be allowed to own a bible in our own language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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