Funeral, Sermon

[HRDWarrior]

So this weekend marks the first time since my "official" deconversion where I have been (literally) surrounded by the people I grew up around - all of them christians, and have sat through a funeral service that was basically a condensed church service.

 

I think there were only two of us there who were not christians - myself, and my brother.

 

I was a bit surprised - coming here, I was a bit worried that being at the funeral, listening to the preacher, and being surrounded by it all would bring back old feelings nearly forgotten in my day to day life in a distant part of this country. To my pleasure, this was far from being the case. In fact, the entire time I felt nothing along the lines of regret, wishfulness, or wondering. I had a couple moments of feeling a bit sorry that everyone else there was so focused on unproven things (such as heaven) rather than enjoying the life they know they have, but that was about the extent of it.

 

This was kind of the final stage for me. I was a bit curious prior to this whether I would have a desire to "go back" if ever I put myself back into that situation - apparently not.

 

In fact, my only regret of the entire weekend was while my mother was questioning me as to my beliefs on evolution. I made the mistake of saying that "I believe...." when I really meant to say "in the research I have conducted thus far, the overwhelming majority of the information I have seen leads me to [such and such a conclusion]." Although the conversation never really went anywhere, I was kicking myself a bit for using her terminology and approach to these things (belief) rather than the real reason why I think what I do (fact, science, and reasoning).

 

Other than that, it was pleasant to see my family again, and no one was obnoxious about my differing opinion (although I kept it to myself unless directly asked). I didn't agree with them, but also wasn't confrontational - I was respectful during prayers and such, but did not bow my head or close my eyes or say "amen," either. I did not join in singing the hymns.

 

Hopefully the mutual respect will continue to work...so far, so good.

[oddbird1963]

I've endured a couple of Christian funerals since my deconversion - both on young men who were far too young when they died. One was 18 y/o and another was 25 at the time of death.

 

Although I am glad that the grieving friends and families were able to take comfort in their faith as they went through the funerary process, I must say the proselytizing attempts of the people who spoke at these funerals struck me as rude and disrespectful in its exploitativeness.

 

I was the only atheist I knew of and I was feeling bad for these young men cut down in their prime. One was just out of high school and the other had just become engaged. Then to have these people remind everybody that they are not prepared to face judgment without Christ in their hearts was manipulative. Actually, since these were mere limited humans trying to tell us what god is all about, it was also arrogant.

 

I can tell that I will have to bite my tongue a lot in the future as I am sure that, due to the natural course of life and my family and social relationships, I will be attending more of these evangelical funerals. Drat!

[Vomit Comet]

I've been to one funeral at my former AoG church, and I can identify very much with what you've written.

[mwc]

At the funeral of my friend I was getting pretty pissed at their "jesus" stroke-fest but enjoyed, as best you can at a funeral, the parts where they got down to business and actually got around to honoring the life of my friend.

 

mwc

[dichotomy]

I'm pleased for you that your experience was on the whole pretty positive (given the setting) and that it fees like the final stage for you. It's also encouraging to know this may be the case for me one day.

 

It is irritating using the belief terminology for things that aren't really belief isn't it? I guess it's just force of habit and also that is how many people express these things. I'm sure you'll get the opportunity to make it clear that you don't 'believe' in evolution, rather you have researched and based your reasoned conclusions upon that.

[StevoMuso]

At the funeral of my friend I was getting pretty pissed at their "jesus" stroke-fest but enjoyed, as best you can at a funeral, the parts where they got down to business and actually got around to honoring the life of my friend.

A few years ago I went to the funeral of Paul Moloko, a man I'd been very close to while I was a missionary in Lebowa, S.Africa (he'd been like a father to me, and I was crushed by his death). I sat listening to people going up to testify and not one of them mentioned my beloved Paul - they just used his funeral to preach the Gospel. This saddened me a great deal. I was like a son to Paul, having lived in his home (okay, tin shack) for nearly 2 years, and supported him financially in the years following (like any son going into the "big city") and I should have been one of the speakers. I also speak the N.Sotho language fluently and wouldn't have needed an interpreter - but in spite of all this, they wouldn't let me get up and speak because they knew I had become an atheist. All I wanted to do was honor the man who had been such a powerful influence in so many people's lives ... say something about his wisdom, compassion, humility, generosity of spirit and remember, for a moment of mourning, who he had been to all of us (there were more than 500 people at his funeral) - and I would have been the only one to have done so.

 

Attending this funeral upset me a great deal. Not because of all the Christian trappings and singing and stuff, and not only because of the tragic death of a loved-one, but also because the people attending the funeral, members of his family and the church where he had been a pastor, had been so blinded by their ridiculous religion that they couldn't stop for a moment to genuinely grieve the passing of a great man.

[dB-Paradox]

I had a couple moments of feeling a bit sorry that everyone else there was so focused on unproven things (such as heaven) rather than enjoying the life they know they have, but that was about the extent of it.

I know nothing of your family, but in my family, and in my own experience with talking to other Christians, most of them fully enjoy this life as though it is heaven (rightfully so), and use the existence of heaven mostly as comfort food. In fact, I recently went to a freethinker's group that talked about death from an atheist's and a Christian's POV. It seems that we all "believe" the same thing. Most people, Christian or not, simply focus on the life of the loved one. Thinking about heaven seems a minor thought at most funerals. Grave stones even confirm that people are more connected with life here on earth than anything in heaven.

[StevoMuso]

Fellow Ex-Cs, I need to say something to you. After posting my funeral story contribution above I was headed for bed but realized something and came back to say this. That post above is the first time I've told that story and explained the grief I felt and why I was saddened by the Christian's attitude at Paul's funeral. I have actually realized that you guys on this forum who I have come to know and respect are probably the only people who will "get" what I was feeling.

 

So - I know it's gushy and vomitously sentimental - but thanks for "being there" and being the kind of people who can relate and share these things. This forum seriously rocks and (music please Maestro ...) WE ... ARE ... FAM ... ILY

[HRDWarrior]

 

I know nothing of your family, but in my family, and in my own experience with talking to other Christians, most of them fully enjoy this life as though it is heaven (rightfully so), and use the existence of heaven mostly as comfort food. In fact, I recently went to a freethinker's group that talked about death from an atheist's and a Christian's POV. It seems that we all "believe" the same thing. Most people, Christian or not, simply focus on the life of the loved one. Thinking about heaven seems a minor thought at most funerals. Grave stones even confirm that people are more connected with life here on earth than anything in heaven.

 

This is very untrue with the majority of people I grew up around. Most were hard core fundies, and to them, this life is nothing more than the misery they have to endure to get to where they really want to be. My family and old friends (for the most part, obviously there are some exceptions) have one goal in life, and that's heaven. They only live this life because they have to in order to "serve god" but it is not where they want to be.

[HRDWarrior]

At the funeral of my friend I was getting pretty pissed at their "jesus" stroke-fest but enjoyed, as best you can at a funeral, the parts where they got down to business and actually got around to honoring the life of my friend.

A few years ago I went to the funeral of Paul Moloko, a man I'd been very close to while I was a missionary in Lebowa, S.Africa (he'd been like a father to me, and I was crushed by his death). I sat listening to people going up to testify and not one of them mentioned my beloved Paul - they just used his funeral to preach the Gospel. This saddened me a great deal. I was like a son to Paul, having lived in his home (okay, tin shack) for nearly 2 years, and supported him financially in the years following (like any son going into the "big city") and I should have been one of the speakers. I also speak the N.Sotho language fluently and wouldn't have needed an interpreter - but in spite of all this, they wouldn't let me get up and speak because they knew I had become an atheist. All I wanted to do was honor the man who had been such a powerful influence in so many people's lives ... say something about his wisdom, compassion, humility, generosity of spirit and remember, for a moment of mourning, who he had been to all of us (there were more than 500 people at his funeral) - and I would have been the only one to have done so.

 

Attending this funeral upset me a great deal. Not because of all the Christian trappings and singing and stuff, and not only because of the tragic death of a loved-one, but also because the people attending the funeral, members of his family and the church where he had been a pastor, had been so blinded by their ridiculous religion that they couldn't stop for a moment to genuinely grieve the passing of a great man.

 

That's horrible! Granted, at my uncle's funeral (which was fairly small) nearly all the "prearranged" items were nothing more than a sermon to preach the bible, but the people in the crowd who did get up to speak at least talked about their memories of him rather than preaching.

 

I'm sure your experience still hurts, I would imagine you were never given the opportunity to really close that chapter in your life since you were excluded due to a simple religious difference.

[StevoMuso]

I'm sure your experience still hurts, I would imagine you were never given the opportunity to really close that chapter in your life since you were excluded due to a simple religious difference.

Yup - still hurts like crazy after all these years. But sharing it here helped bring some closure, at least I got to tell someone who would understand. I was the only white person there, and also the only person to weep my eyes out like a baby when they lowered his coffin into the ground. They must have thought I was nuts, but it did seem as if I was the only one who was actually grieving for losing such a wonderful man to the grave.

 

Sad shit man - but hey - thanks for listening. So much for us being a bunch of hard-assed reprobates -

[♦ nivek ♦]

Ms HRDW...

 

I have a horrible habit of interrupting the preacher and turning the proceedings into a memory-fest tuned to those happier spots of time when the person being honored participated.

 

This mean old hulk of a shithead has stared down the preacherbots, and in turn DARED them to beg their pissant god to strike my ass dead. Aint'a happened yet.

 

After the jesusfest's spell is broken we can get along with the "Let's talk about Bob and the cool things and times we would like to remember about him.."

 

Been asked not to attend several proceedin's by the highly religious, their kinfolk part of my scant social circles, so as to allow the preacher to get this guy into hebbin via preachin' loud 'n hard.. I usually sit in back, waiting for time to be able to speak.

 

Fugg'um all, the christbots and their shit. If the person you remember was not "religious by their flavor" then know that their life as you care to remember it is more important than its "end", given permission by some three piece suited or black robed whore.

 

When it is my time, if their should be a public proceedin', want a bottle of single malt, some good pizza, Bob Seger on the sound, and tons of rolling stock making noise.

 

Please don't let anyone influence those making my "end" be some somber whining assed affair where people feel "bad" for a shithead like me..

 

kevinFuckin'L

[StevoMuso]

Fugg'um all, the christbots and their shit. If the person you remember was not "religious by their flavor" then know that their life as you care to remember it is more important than its "end", given permission by some three piece suited or black robed whore.

kevinFuckin'L

Brilliant - fugg'en brilliant post. Says it all.