Have I Commited Eternal Sin

[hargabyte]

Hi, Im new here. This is my first post. I have been a christian for almost 12 years now. I have been an off and on church goer but have been really involved in church for the last year minus the last 4 months. About 4 months ago I decided to take some time off from church to reflect on my beliefs and to decide if I really believed what I was being told every Sunday. I have now come to the conclusion that if there is a God, it's not the God I have been worshiping for the last 12 years. I have renounce my religion but I also to decided that if I had to explain myself to my christian friends I at least want to have a solid belief to stand on. Anyways, so I have been reading the bible more in the last 4 months then I did in the last 12 years and have found that no matter what my beliefs are I am eternally damned to go to hell. Instead of repeating myself I am going to post an email I sent to my pastor. I would be interested in any thoughts or opinions anyone has. Thanks for reading

 

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Hi Pastor Alpha,

 

When we met last you told me that I could email any questions that I had. So here ya go. I have been reading about eternal sin lately and have some concerns with what is written in the bible. I have found 4 passages in the bible that all state that blasphemy against the holy spirit is unforgivable. Here are the 4 verses I found.

 

* Mark 3:28-30

 

: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

 

 

 

* Matthew 12:30-32

 

: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

 

 

 

* Luke 12:8-10

 

: "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

 

 

 

* Hebrews 6:4-6

 

: "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

 

These verses seem to clearly state that if someone accepts God into their lives and then later repents against God and claims blasphemy against the holy spirit then there is no forgiveness. Upon reading more about this it seems that by simply denying the existence of the holy spirit is blasphemy. Merrian-webster says that blasphemy is "the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God" While I haven't insulted or shown contempt, I have definitely shown a lack of reverence for God. When I first gave myself to Christ and was baptized I truly believed in God and Jesus. I was convince I was going to heaven and I would live for eternity there. Over the last several years I have had more and more doubt in Christianity and more recently in all religion. I am definitely at a point in life where I don't believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Maybe one day I will change my beliefs and see God as you see him but that doesn't seem to matter.

 

So what is your take on this? It seems that if I understand these verses correctly then I am dammed for life, unforgivable. Witch makes me wonder why I should continue to pursue Christianity at all?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forward to your response.

 

James

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

If you think you did commit the unforgivable sin, you probably didn't. And also once your saved your always saved.

 

Though I think that is all BS, if that is all your looking for, then be glad.

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

Sorry i didn't read it throughly the first time around

 

 

Ummm I don't think you commited it because it is the idea of once saved always saved.

[mwc]

The answer is you have sinned a horrible sin *if* you still believe in all that stupid shit you read in that book. So if you still believe in the xian god, his magic kid, and virgin humping ghosts then you have made a grave mistake.

 

On the other hand if you don't believe in all that nonsense then what have you done wrong? Said/thought something about a character in a book that, for some reason, people think is real? My, oh, my, I guess you'll have to deal with the consequences of that storybook character hunting you down and punishing you for that. Just like you'll have to deal with Santa leaving you a lump of coal for not being a good boy this year...oh wait...you're Santa. You'll buy your own shit whenever you want it and screw the coal. That's motivation for children and idiots.

 

mwc

[hargabyte]

Sorry i didn't read it throughly the first time around

 

 

Ummm I don't think you commited it because it is the idea of once saved always saved.

 

Ok but the scripture I quoted clearly states God will forgive all sin except blasphemy of the holy spirit. After researching what blasphemy really is, it seems that by just denying the holy spirit exists is blasphemy. While I dont have any plans to return to the church Im trying to seek the truth of Christianity. The funny things is that for 12 years I just accepted everything I was told in church as the truth. Now that I have left Im interested in understanding what I was claiming was the truth as a Christian. I have a lot of friends that are still Christians, if you asked any of them they would say that anyone that leaves the church can come back to God and be re-forgiven but that doesn't seem true. I wonder how they would feel about there God if knew that I was damned for hell with no option of ever receiving forgiveness just because I deny that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist.

 

I read a couple answers to this question by 2 the most recognizable christian leaders, Pat Robertson and Billy Graham (linked below). Both of them seems to agree that by denying the holy spirit exist falls under the unforgivable sin. Then they both seems to contradict that statement by saying that if you really want to believe that you will be forgiven, but that's not supported at all by the scripture. It clearly states in Matthew "but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." and again in Mark "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will NEVER be forgiven". While man may says something will never happen and then turn on that word later, when God says never it really means never.

 

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/cbnteachingsheets/Pat_Perspective_unpardonable_sin.aspx

http://www.billygraham.org/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=1663

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

Sorry i didn't read it throughly the first time around

 

 

Ummm I don't think you commited it because it is the idea of once saved always saved.

 

Ok but the scripture I quoted clearly states God will forgive all sin except blasphemy of the holy spirit. After researching what blasphemy really is, it seems that by just denying the holy spirit exists is blasphemy. While I dont have any plans to return to the church Im trying to seek the truth of Christianity. The funny things is that for 12 years I just accepted everything I was told in church as the truth. Now that I have left Im interested in understanding what I was claiming was the truth as a Christian. I have a lot of friends that are still Christians, if you asked any of them they would say that anyone that leaves the church can come back to God and be re-forgiven but that doesn't seem true. I wonder how they would feel about there God if knew that I was damned for hell with no option of ever receiving forgiveness just because I deny that God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit exist.

 

I read a couple answers to this question by 2 the most recognizable christian leaders, Pat Robertson and Billy Graham (linked below). Both of them seems to agree that by denying the holy spirit exist falls under the unforgivable sin. Then they both seems to contradict that statement by saying that if you really want to believe that you will be forgiven, but that's not supported at all by the scripture. It clearly states in Matthew "but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come." and again in Mark "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will NEVER be forgiven". While man may says something will never happen and then turn on that word later, when God says never it really means never.

 

http://www.cbn.com/spirituallife/cbnteachingsheets/Pat_Perspective_unpardonable_sin.aspx

http://www.billygraham.org/MyAnswer_Article.asp?ArticleID=1663

Here is the problem, then that could only occur to someone who isn't saved, because the bible says god wants all to be saved.

[Guest Valkyrie0010]

My uncle once told me, that you couldn't deny the holy spirit if your saved, because you have already accepted the holy spirit.

 

That is all I got to say about it really

[classicchinadoll]

what i would suggest is looking at every body who is apparently damned to hell, ppl who are addicted to alcohol and can't manage to give up according to paul they are damned eternally, all atheists bhuddists muslims jains they are damned eternally, the reason your friends tell you you are not condemned is because there are passages stating whoever asks for forgivness will be forgiven. this contradicts the passages about never being forgiven if you blaspheme the holy spirit. the way my friends reconcile this is they say if you blaspheme the holy spirit you will never genuinely believe in god again or come to a point of repentance. I know this isn't true because i was a christian then i became agnostic/atheist and then i became a xtian again and was once again repentant now i am an atheist again. the bible also has passages that suggest if you stop believing you never truly believed but you and I and everyone on this site knows thats not true.

[mwc]

Ok but the scripture I quoted clearly states God will forgive all sin except blasphemy of the holy spirit. After researching what blasphemy really is, it seems that by just denying the holy spirit exists is blasphemy.

Then look deeper into the word because simply denying that the spirit isn't all it's cracked up to be could be taken as blaspheming. So if you simply deny that the HS has the power to do X, like heal a person, and yet this is something the HS is supposed to be able to do then you may very well be guilty of blaspheming the spirit. Diminishing the "power" of the HS is a very easy way to commit blasphemy. This would be the same thing as saying about your king "Aww, King <Whoever>, he's not so great." Uh oh. You may have very well screwed the pooch depending on context.

 

mwc

[hereticzero]

You have not committed the unforgivable sin unless you do not get health care insurance.

[Petrel]

This is something I thought about when I deconverted. I actually was reading a lot about the "once saved always saved", aka OSAS, notion the previous year and decided that it was completely wrong. Hebrews 6:4-12:

 

It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

 

Even though we speak like this, dear friends, we are confident of better things in your case—things that accompany salvation. God is not unjust; he will not forget your work and the love you have shown him as you have helped his people and continue to help them. We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. We do not want you to become lazy, but to imitate those who through faith and patience inherit what has been promised.

 

The explanation I was always taught was that those who fall away here were not *really* saved in the first place. But I realized the most rational explanation for this and other passages was that the early Christians really did think that salvation was not something that you secure once and never lose. It can be lost if you aren't ardent enough or fail to devote yourself sufficiently, and then according to this passage once you lose it, you're screwed.

 

Needless to say this must be a nerve wracking belief system, leading to Paul's advice to "work out your salvation with fear and trembling".

 

So in deconverting I also had to deal with the idea that if I ticked God off enough, I was going to go to hell. Eventually I reached the point where I didn't believe in God any more, and stopped worrying.

 

If you're confident that you are correct and that this particular God does not exist, you have no reason to worry about him punishing you.

[nightflight]

Ah, memories. The utter terror, pacing the darkened house at 2 A.M., sleeping for 14 hours a day, losing my appetite for two weeks, feeling cold in August. Eventually dropping out of college because how can one be enthusiastic about education when one is certain he is damned to hell forever and there's nothing that can be done about it?

 

Tell me again someone why christianity is "good news".

[Tabula Rasa]

Hi, Im new here. This is my first post. I have been a christian for almost 12 years now. I have been an off and on church goer but have been really involved in church for the last year minus the last 4 months. About 4 months ago I decided to take some time off from church to reflect on my beliefs and to decide if I really believed what I was being told every Sunday. I have now come to the conclusion that if there is a God, it's not the God I have been worshiping for the last 12 years.

 

Well there you go James. See, I look at it this way, if there's a supreme being, an all powerful God, who created the universe by sheer force of will, you don't have to worry about the "Unpardonable Sin." An all powerful God, capable of shaping all of creation and reality to it's whim, will be too transcendent, to be offended just because us, it's creations don't worship it , or worship it the wrong way, or even curse it, or deny it's existence. It'd be like if we got pissed off if an ant didn't bow down to us. An all powerful being doesn't want or need for anything, and would not desire or need to be worshiped .

 

I'm not certain what runs the show that's called the universe, reality, existence, etc. But I have a fair amount of certainty it's not the sadistic hateful bully of the bible.

 

Peace to you

Tabula Rasa

[nightflight]

http://net-burst.net/guilty/sin.htm

[par4dcourse]

You are amongst folks who refer to the bible as the big book of Jewish faery tales. The bible says a plethora of ascinine things.

We had a great deal of fun in this thread committing the unforgiveable.

From GwenMead "Going by what the Bible actually says, all you have to do to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is to speak ill of it. You know, claim it ate all your food, wrecked your car, stole your girlfriend, drank your beer, and generally is an irresponsible jerk who never returns phone calls and likes to knock up virgins."

[Vigile]

Just say "Fuck the holy ghost" out loud. It can be quite freeing.

 

But seriously, do some research. You won't believe how much it will ease your mind when you realize that the whole thing is a castle built on the sand to steal a Jesus metaphor.

[hargabyte]

You are amongst folks who refer to the bible as the big book of Jewish faery tales. The bible says a plethora of ascinine things.

We had a great deal of fun in this thread committing the unforgiveable.

From GwenMead "Going by what the Bible actually says, all you have to do to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit is to speak ill of it. You know, claim it ate all your food, wrecked your car, stole your girlfriend, drank your beer, and generally is an irresponsible jerk who never returns phone calls and likes to knock up virgins."

 

 

Hehe ya that pretty much where I am at now. I completely deny that any God is real. Its all a bunch of rubbish. I still cant figure out how I got duped into all of this. My main goal now is to help some of my friends that are still Christians. I know a lot of them have their doubts but they just keep keep taking everything they have heard blindly. I am hoping to use their own book to show them what they are truly worshiping. I found this whole unforgivable sin a real shock. In 12 years of church I had never heard of this and I am sure most of my friends haven't either. I bet a lot of them have committed this at some point in their lives.

[Brakeman]

Well, really the only way I see out of this dilemma is a animal sacrifice on a fiery pyre, I would suggest T-Bones over charcoal. Threaten one of your kids with a knife or a stone,but hit'em with a rod, and then do something really misogynistic, god really likes that! Do a little trimming of the old foreskin too, and don't spill any sperm!

And finally top that off with some "Homo Huntin'", and I'm sure god will have you back as a favorite son in no time.

 

If you need any other pointers, I'd call up 'ol Fred Phelps, he certainly knows what god likes!

 

[Dagan]

Christianity in a nutshell.

 

"I love you so much I sent part of myself to die for you, then come back to life, rendering the sacrifice pointless. Just believe that and I won't have to kill you. But don't dare question it or be skeptical in any way, or I will FUCKING BURN YOU FOREVER. Love, God."

 

In answer to your question, you have to believe sin exists before you can commit one that is unforgivable.

[Realist]

Hi, Im new here. This is my first post. I have been a christian for almost 12 years now. I have been an off and on church goer but have been really involved in church for the last year minus the last 4 months. About 4 months ago I decided to take some time off from church to reflect on my beliefs and to decide if I really believed what I was being told every Sunday. I have now come to the conclusion that if there is a God, it's not the God I have been worshiping for the last 12 years. I have renounce my religion but I also to decided that if I had to explain myself to my christian friends I at least want to have a solid belief to stand on. Anyways, so I have been reading the bible more in the last 4 months then I did in the last 12 years and have found that no matter what my beliefs are I am eternally damned to go to hell. Instead of repeating myself I am going to post an email I sent to my pastor. I would be interested in any thoughts or opinions anyone has. Thanks for reading

 

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Hi Pastor Alpha,

 

When we met last you told me that I could email any questions that I had. So here ya go. I have been reading about eternal sin lately and have some concerns with what is written in the bible. I have found 4 passages in the bible that all state that blasphemy against the holy spirit is unforgivable. Here are the 4 verses I found.

 

* Mark 3:28-30

 

: "Truly I tell you, people will be forgiven all their sins and all the blasphemies they utter. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven, but is guilty of an eternal sin. He said this because they [the Pharisees] were saying, ‘He has an evil spirit’."

 

 

 

* Matthew 12:30-32

 

: "Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, people will be forgiven every sin and blasphemy. But the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

 

 

 

* Luke 12:8-10

 

: "I tell you, whoever acknowledges me before men, the Son of Man will also acknowledge him before the angels of God. But he who disowns me before men will be disowned before the angels of God. And everyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven."

 

 

 

* Hebrews 6:4-6

 

: "It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

 

 

These verses seem to clearly state that if someone accepts God into their lives and then later repents against God and claims blasphemy against the holy spirit then there is no forgiveness. Upon reading more about this it seems that by simply denying the existence of the holy spirit is blasphemy. Merrian-webster says that blasphemy is "the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God" While I haven't insulted or shown contempt, I have definitely shown a lack of reverence for God. When I first gave myself to Christ and was baptized I truly believed in God and Jesus. I was convince I was going to heaven and I would live for eternity there. Over the last several years I have had more and more doubt in Christianity and more recently in all religion. I am definitely at a point in life where I don't believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Maybe one day I will change my beliefs and see God as you see him but that doesn't seem to matter.

 

So what is your take on this? It seems that if I understand these verses correctly then I am dammed for life, unforgivable. Witch makes me wonder why I should continue to pursue Christianity at all?

 

Thanks for taking the time to read this. I look forward to your response.

 

James

 

... Welcome to the forum!

 

My take on this is pick on easier subjects first!

 

If you got a dozen christians in the same room .... asked them what the unpardonable sin was .... you would probably get 12 different answers! Why is this? Isn't the bible supposedly god's word divinely inspired to mankind? Why did he make such a piss-poor job of being understood? He is GOD after all! It should be SO clear it would be like being written in the clouds so NO one has the chance of getting it wrong! After all salvation would be mankinds one and only need in life the outcome is so important?!

 

No, the reason for this of course it is just MAN'S word to MAN!

 

You probably at this stage may regard the bible as the innerant word of god. My suggestion is go and start at the beginning. Go and read Genesis first with that in mind. There are plenty of sites around you can google for help including this one. Go and question the bullshit creation account; the laughable flood story; You will find science alone can prove these accounts both incorrect. Read about the evil of the early xtian church and its links with paganism ... how this horror message was fed on in its present form in those early centuries after christ. Read about current discoveries in neuroscience and what they are exploring in regard to religious belief! You HAVE to get your head outside a guidebook (the bible) which is a ruler that has 13 inches to the foot! Good luck!!

[★ Citsonga ★]

These verses seem to clearly state that if someone accepts God into their lives and then later repents against God and claims blasphemy against the holy spirit then there is no forgiveness.... I am definitely at a point in life where I don't believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

 

Maybe my response is too simplistic for where you're at in your journey, but I would say that if you no longer believe in god, Jesus and the holy spook, then you really don't need to worry about what the bible says.

[★ Citsonga ★]

This is something I thought about when I deconverted. I actually was reading a lot about the "once saved always saved", aka OSAS, notion the previous year and decided that it was completely wrong. Hebrews 6:4-12....

 

The explanation I was always taught was that those who fall away here were not *really* saved in the first place. But I realized the most rational explanation for this and other passages was that the early Christians really did think that salvation was not something that you secure once and never lose. It can be lost if you aren't ardent enough or fail to devote yourself sufficiently, and then according to this passage once you lose it, you're screwed.

 

What it really boils down to is that the bible is contradictory on the matter. There definitely are passages indicating that those who leave the faith were never really of the faith, and then there are passages like what you mentioned here that indicate otherwise. Christians on either side of the issue who try to base their beliefs on the bible take certain passages literally and reinterpret others to fit.

[hargabyte]

Wow thanks for all the replys everyone. I am starting to get a better understanding of this and frankly how Christian leaders like to make the bible says what they believe. I got a response back from my pastor and he seems to think that all of this just means that you cant be forgiven while you are speaking against the holy spirit.

 

I find it ridicules that Pastors says the bible is a literal translation of Gods word and then decide to take scripture and bend it to their views and beliefs. I guess this is why we have so many denominations.

[florduh]

Have I Committed Eternal Sin?

It's a nonsense question outside the confines of certain religious beliefs.

 

They made up the rules, let them live by those rules. The rest of us don't have to any more than we must abide by Sharia law. It's religious nonsense.

[OrdinaryClay]

These verses seem to clearly state that if someone accepts God into their lives and then later repents against God and claims blasphemy against the holy spirit then there is no forgiveness.... I am definitely at a point in life where I don't believe in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.

 

Maybe my response is too simplistic for where you're at in your journey, but I would say that if you no longer believe in god, Jesus and the holy spook, then you really don't need to worry about what the bible says.

What we believe is not important. What is true is what is important.