OnceConvinced Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 I was just thinking today how often Christians make a big deal about freewill and how they claim that God would never violate freewill (although there are many examples in the bible where God violates freewill quite horribly). But isn't it funny that many prayers from Christians are actually asking God to violate people's freewill. Why is it that Christians don't consider this? And why is it that when they do get what they pray they give thanks to God for it, even though God would have surely had to violate someone's freewill to do it? I could see many examples of prayers that would violate someone's freewill if God was to honor it: - Soften someone's heart - Give them the job they're applying for (God would have to actively influence the decision making process on this one.) - Keep family members safe (God would have to force offenders/idiots to go somewhere else and hurt somone else instead) - Help them win at sports (God would probably have to negatively affect the opposition in some way) - Asking for guilt or conviction to come upon someone - or some people group - Help someone understand scripture. - That people would give generously. - That people would come forward for salvation - That many people would come to a particular event. I would even suggest that asking for healing for someone who has not given permission to be prayed for, could also be deemed a violation of freewill if God was to heal them. I would like to ask Christians why they would ever pray for things like this if there is an expectation of God violating freewill in this manner? And why would Christians thank God for it? (Why would they even believe God had done anything in this case?) I would also like to add to my list here. Can anyone think of other common prayer requests that would most likely involve God having to violate someone's free will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko47 Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Prayer is essentially a selfish process anyway. All good points, but I've always loved this one: "Dear God...I don't want any favors from you this year. None at all. Anything nice you were going to send my way, just cancel. Instead, I want you to divert what you were going to give to me, or help me with, and instead help a starving family or child in Africa or some other rough part of the world. In fact, from here on in, just divert any stuff you were going to help me with and give it to someone less fortunate. I'm financially secure, have a good life, and a smokin' plasma TV. I'm fine. At least consider what I'm asking for here, Lord, while tons of little kids in the 3rd world go hungry. Thanks....Amen..." When believers start doing this, I'll go back to church. Not too worried, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted March 23, 2010 Author Share Posted March 23, 2010 Absolutely. What a great prayer. Never one I heard in the church in my 30+ years. But you know, it will never happen. God won't be helping those starving kids. He's too busy helping Christians win at sports, helping them understand scripture, providing good weather for church picnics and helping people get their cars started on a Sunday morning so they can get to church on time. Oh and yeah, making sure churches have lots and lots of money coming in so they can ocassionally send someone off to Africa to preach to the starving children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwc Posted March 23, 2010 Share Posted March 23, 2010 Dear GOD, don't you already know what to do without me bringing it up? mwc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skankboy Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 I was always told any prayer other than "thy will be done" was tantamount to blasphemy. God knows what you want and what you need. To plead that he do anything other than what he has already planned to do is just a form of begging and/or threat. "Do this or I won't believe in you anymore!" Of course, it's actually just a form of verbal/mental masturbation... and that's not always bad... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cobrakai Posted March 25, 2010 Share Posted March 25, 2010 Great piece OnceConvinced. I really never even looked at it this way, I'll have to keep this in my arsenal to make some christians head blow up. Once I left the faith the idea of prayer really became quite strange. Realizing how psychological it was and how many times I had essentially just talked to myself. I guess if I would have closed my eyes tighter or lifted my hands in the air I would've had them answered. Think about it, prayer is asking God to intervene in a situation that he has apparently allowed to already happen. So when you ask for grandma's cancer to go away God could have just not let it happen. So he made a decision to let grandma have cancer. So when you pray to god for grandma to be healed you are basically asking god to change his mind right? And if "God is never changing" then it just doesn't make sense to pray. (Of course there are probably tons of examples in the bible where god is a wishy washy fuckhead so I don't know where that cliche comes from) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shyone Posted March 26, 2010 Share Posted March 26, 2010 (Of course there are probably tons of examples in the bible where god is a wishy washy fuckhead so I don't know where that cliche comes from) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnceConvinced Posted March 26, 2010 Author Share Posted March 26, 2010 I was always told any prayer other than "thy will be done" was tantamount to blasphemy. God knows what you want and what you need. To plead that he do anything other than what he has already planned to do is just a form of begging and/or threat. "Do this or I won't believe in you anymore!" That almost seems to be a really rude way of praying. "Dear god. Do what ever the fuck you think you should do." Does God really need to be told to do what he intends to do? Does he need us to give him this command? Ha ha. Great piece OnceConvinced. I really never even looked at it this way, I'll have to keep this in my arsenal to make some christians head blow up. Once I left the faith the idea of prayer really became quite strange. Realizing how psychological it was and how many times I had essentially just talked to myself. I guess if I would have closed my eyes tighter or lifted my hands in the air I would've had them answered. Think about it, prayer is asking God to intervene in a situation that he has apparently allowed to already happen. So when you ask for grandma's cancer to go away God could have just not let it happen. So he made a decision to let grandma have cancer. So when you pray to god for grandma to be healed you are basically asking god to change his mind right? And if "God is never changing" then it just doesn't make sense to pray. (Of course there are probably tons of examples in the bible where god is a wishy washy fuckhead so I don't know where that cliche comes from) It's amazing how your eyes open when you leave Christianity. You can see how silly it all is. I'm looking forward to be able to use this as part of my arsenel too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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