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Goodbye Jesus

Who Was The Main God Of Israel?


Guest Babylonian Dream

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Guest Babylonian Dream

According to the Old Testament, the answer is obvious, it's YHWH. Though when you look at historical inscriptions, well.... the answer is Baal:

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=ra0QmH4np4kC&printsec=frontcover&client=firefox-a#v=onepage&q=&f=false

 

The main god in the time of Omri, king of Israel, for example, was Baal. As his inscription, the Victory stele of Tell El-Qadi states, Baal (the title of Hadad) went out in front of Omri in his battles.

 

For those who aren't well versed in ancient near eastern historical texts, that is something said of the main gods, usually the King of the gods, or when there are 7 like in Sumeria and Babylonia, one or a few are mentioned. Or just the particular kings main gods. It is usually also propaganda for "my god is helped me win this battle".

 

Where is YHWH in the texts? Well, there is a YHW, but YHWH doesn't appear, because that would be later feminine for the name YHW.

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I haven't looked but wasn't Israel, at this time, not followers of any YHWH? I thought they had parted ways with Judah by this time? I suppose I could actually check but I'm not in the mood right now. ;)

 

mwc

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Technically the old testament also says that the Israelites were a bunch of whores going after other gods, and their giant dongs.

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  • Super Moderator

They had many gods, but I don't know which was the most popular. I'm guessing Alan King.

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I haven't looked but wasn't Israel, at this time, not followers of any YHWH? I thought they had parted ways with Judah by this time? I suppose I could actually check but I'm not in the mood right now. ;)

 

mwc

 

I was of the impression that the Judah/Israel split from a prior unity was fictional. It's been a while since I read it, but I seem to recall that being one of the points in The Bible Unearthed.

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According to the Old Testament, the answer is obvious, it's YHWH. Though when you look at historical inscriptions, well.... the answer is Baal:

 

And I for one wouldn't put much stock in that the bible says. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Baal was the primary deity of Israel until being replaced with YHWH.

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Guest Babylonian Dream

I haven't looked but wasn't Israel, at this time, not followers of any YHWH?

According to the Bible, YHWH was their main god, yet according to the Bible, Jerusalem was the capital of Israel, which is just nonhistorical nonsense.

 

I thought they had parted ways with Judah by this time?

According to the Bible, but according to history, Judah didn't part ways with the rest of the backwater canaanite cities until long after the "united monarchy" would've been long gone. Israel was always on its own and always ruled from what we know by samaria, as it is shown through the historical record from what he have.

 

Technically the old testament also says that the Israelites were a bunch of whores going after other gods, and their giant dongs.

Well....The Israelites shouldn't ever had cheated on him in the first place, they know YHWH gets jealous. They shouldn't have made that covenent, marriage is forever. And marriage with YHWH isn't until death do we part. :D

 

And I for one wouldn't put much stock in that the bible says. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Baal was the primary deity of Israel until being replaced with YHWH.

The thing is, Baal was never a deity, it was a title, its still used. The english and phoenician of Baal are still worshipped by jews and christians alike. All it is is a title, it means Lord, and can apply to any deity, so long as its your main god/or goddess if its Balat. Though the jews worship Lords (yeah its plural, but singular somehow, they tend to like plural names for god).

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I thought the Israelites were originally polytheists who worshiped El, Yahweh, and his wife Asherah?

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Well....The Israelites shouldn't ever had cheated on him in the first place, they know YHWH gets jealous. They shouldn't have made that covenent, marriage is forever. And marriage with YHWH isn't until death do we part. :D

 

That is probably why the bible condemns the Israelites for doing it, also I believe the whole not until death do we part thing only comes in with Jesus, OT upon death you belong to Sheol. Either way the fact still remains that if you read the book of kings one of the things which it condemns various kings for is Baal worship or what have you, I believe that the practice is given as the reason for YWHW setting the Babylonians and Assyrians on them, so unless they've found archaeological evidence, that say, king David worshiped Baal, I don't think it really contradicts the biblical record, actually it could probably be taken as supporting evidence for the bible's account of the Israelites falling into apostasy.

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Guest I Love Dog

I thought the Israelites were originally polytheists who worshiped El, Yahweh, and his wife Asherah?

 

 

It's my understanding that Baal means Lord and can apply to any god. The Israelites/Hebrews/Canaanites worshiped many gods but after getting out of Egypt, they decided that Yahweh was the one who saved them and declared that he would be their only god from now on because he was a very jealous god and didn't like them worshiping other gods. He was also their nastiest, demanding blood sacrifice(this is how they adopted circumcision, dedicating their males babies foreskins to Yahweh) and I believe he was also their god of war. Hence the OT nastiness of their god.

 

Or course, the Romans and Greeks cleaned up the whole thing and wrote the NT, making the Christos(messiah/savior) into a far more pleasant person. The Romans and Greeks couldn't accept mutilation of the human body and so circumcision wasn't a requisite for the worship of the "new" reformed god.

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I thought the Israelites were originally polytheists who worshiped El, Yahweh, and his wife Asherah?

 

 

It's my understanding that Baal means Lord and can apply to any god. The Israelites/Hebrews/Canaanites worshiped many gods but after getting out of Egypt, they decided that Yahweh was the one who saved them and declared that he would be their only god from now on because he was a very jealous god and didn't like them worshiping other gods. He was also their nastiest, demanding blood sacrifice(this is how they adopted circumcision, dedicating their males babies foreskins to Yahweh) and I believe he was also their god of war. Hence the OT nastiness of their god.

 

Or course, the Romans and Greeks cleaned up the whole thing and wrote the NT, making the Christos(messiah/savior) into a far more pleasant person. The Romans and Greeks couldn't accept mutilation of the human body and so circumcision wasn't a requisite for the worship of the "new" reformed god.

That's the story in the bible, but clearly the Hebrews did not consistently worship Yahweh. One interesting episode that gives away the whole ball of wax is the forging of a golden calf which Aaron and others declared, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt."

 

I mean, really, God and Moses had just parted the waters and miraculously saved the Hebrews and they immediately started worshipping a golden calf? After turning staffs into snakes? And the Passover? The people, including Aaron, were clueless.

 

I even think that circumcision is a ritual that is carried over from other cultures adapted to a new purpose. The Babylonian literature before the hebrews has this little tidbit about curses from the gods:

 

May Bin, the great Lord of heaven and earth, cause the streams of his

river to overflow[14] ... have his progeny circumcised, and load his feet

with a heavy chain.

 

A relief from the Sixth Dynasty tomb on Ankh-ma-Hor at Saqquara portrays the circumcision of two puberty-aged youths.

 

Circumcision has been detected in Egyptian mummies from before 4,000 BC. Even Jeremiah notes that peoples other than the Hebrews were circumcised:

 

25. "The days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will punish all who are circumcised only in the flesh--

26. Egypt, Judah, Edom, Ammon, Moab and all who live in the desert in distant places. For all these nations are really uncircumcised, and even the whole house of Israel is uncircumcised in heart."

 

The bible is really a poor source of information for societies other than the Hebrews, but sometimes details do slip in...

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That's the story in the bible, but clearly the Hebrews did not consistently worship Yahweh. One interesting episode that gives away the whole ball of wax is the forging of a golden calf which Aaron and others declared, "These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt."

 

I mean, really, God and Moses had just parted the waters and miraculously saved the Hebrews and they immediately started worshipping a golden calf? After turning staffs into snakes? And the Passover? The people, including Aaron, were clueless.

 

 

An even more direct evidence of pagan worship among the early Israelites is in the story of Jacob wrestling with God in Genesis chapter 32. After Jacobwrestles with the man and realizes he had just wrestled with a god, Jacob builds a shrine in honor of this god, but he doesn't build it in honor of Yahweh, he builds it in honor of the local Canaanite deity, El.
The same night he got up and took his two wives, his two maids, and his eleven children, and crossed the ford of the Jabbok. 23He took them and sent them across the stream, and likewise everything that he had. 24Jacob was left alone; and a man wrestled with him until daybreak. 25When the man saw that he did not prevail against Jacob, he struck him on the hip socket; and Jacob’s hip was put out of joint as he wrestled with him. 26Then he said, ‘Let me go, for the day is breaking.’ But Jacob said, ‘I will not let you go, unless you bless me.’ 27So he said to him, ‘What is your name?’ And he said, ‘Jacob.’ 28Then the man* said, ‘You shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel,* for you have striven with God and with humans,* and have prevailed.’ 29Then Jacob asked him, ‘Please tell me your name.’ But he said, ‘Why is it that you ask my name?’ And there he blessed him. 30So Jacob called the place Peniel,* saying, ‘For I have seen God face to face, and yet my life is preserved.’ 31The sun rose upon him as he passed Penuel, limping because of his hip. 32Therefore to this day the Israelites do not eat the thigh muscle that is on the hip socket, because he struck Jacob on the hip socket at the thigh muscle.
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