Believe In Jesus... To Be Saved From... Jesus?

[ColorMixer]

So I'm sure many of you have considered the logic of this. (Which appears to be ass backwards) But I've been thinking about these simple problems.

 

Fucked up things I've noticed.

 

1. God sends people to hell, when he full well could "cleanse" them so they they could enter heaven. Some argue that god doesn't send people to hell, but that's ridiculous considering he obviously either brings you into the kingdom or doesn't. There's really no difference from the christian and non-christian, except that the christian has some kind of faith. Your deeds don't matter at all. God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even Christians)

 

2. Depending on your theological background, either god DIRECTLY chooses who will be saved or who will not be saved, or he knows who WILL choose him or not choose him. Either way, god is purposely creating unique souls/people for no other purpose than to be tormented in eternity. I say that it is obviously his fault because he is a monster for creating someone who he knew would not choose him. It would be better for them to never have been created in the first place.

 

3. Jesus saves. Saves you from what? From himself of course. Since god=jesus=spirit, basically god sets up draconian rules where if you do one little "wrong" thing then you go to hell. But god comes down and kills a physical body for 3 days (only to be resurrected) so that if you believe that it really happened without examining the (lack of) evidence, then god won't need to torture you forever. He should not have built the rules in the first place, so that the maximum amount of people could be saved. See it's ridiculous that you need saving, since you are being saved FROM the benevolent being, and that being is not benevolent if you need rescuing from his torturing grasp.

 

Either god has 2 totally different personalities, or he really is evil and has a warped sense of justice. All of these point to that fact that no matter how what side of theology a person takes, god is DIRECTLY creating people to be tortured for eternity, when he very well could NOT torture people, since he apparently made them deficient in the first place.

 

I won't get into all the theological problems, but this one is really hitting me hard. It really stumped me as a xian, and it's stumping my friends. I was on the side of hardcore fundamentalist calvanism, which actually does believe double predestination (god specifically chooses some to be saved, and MANY others to not be saved). And the sad part is... I really think the bible is more in line with calvanism and double predestination, therefore I reject the bible.

 

Of course then again... the answer is "God is above our ways, we can't know why he chooses or why things are the way they are". Wow, you sure know a lot about a god who is so above us.

[Jedah]

In an odd sense you answered your own question by stating Christians will piss poorly rationalize this problem away with a good old ""God is above our ways, we can't know why he chooses or why things are the way they are". The answer is simply that Christians have absolutely no idea what they are talking about.

 

A simple analogy would be higher level algebra and calculus classes. If you have taken such a course in school you would know that most teachers grade your work used to find the answer more than the actual answer itself. This is because it is more important for the student to understand the reasoning behind the answers. When someone just puts "X=3" with no work or proof, it tells very little.

 

Christians who hide behind catch-all cop outs like "We can't understand God but we know he is right!" are much like the student that tries to put an answer down without showing their work. So what? Even if by some luck they are right, it doesn't mean they really understood the problem. This is where the veil falls down and you see Christians for who they really are: posers. They don't actually understand morality, they don't understand the philosophy they claim to support. They are clueless and because they are clueless any answer they give will always be arbitrary. It's easy for us who "Lean on our own understanding" to see how benevolence is logically incompatible with Eternal torture for infidelity. It's obvious to us. A classic "No shit Sherlock"....but for people who can't think for themselves, they have no choice but to cling to bad logic.

 

That being said, a Christian who is totally 100% incapable of free thought is a rare thing. Most of them have a sliver of reason, and pointing out the problem of evil is a pretty good way to pander to that sliver.

[Seeking]

I was on the side of hardcore fundamentalist calvanism, which actually does believe double predestination.

 

So was I. I'm so glad to be done with that.

[Dagan]

Pew pew Jesus and his laser sword of love come to smite two-thirds of the world's population, unless you truly BELIEVE in him!

 

[OnceConvinced]

1) This scripture here clearly contradicts any silly notion that going to Hell is a choice, or for that matter that Hell is simply seperation from God:

Matthew 13:40-42: "Just as the weeds are separated out and burned, so it will be at the end of the world. I, the Son of Man, will send my angels, and they will remove from my Kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil, and they will throw them into the furnace and burn them. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

 

Also note that Jesus will not do his own dirty work and will get the angels to do it for him.

 

2) Absolutely. And here's another thought. Most Christians believe those who have never heard the gospel don't go to Hell. God tells Christians to go out and preach the gospel. Any type of preaching or missionary work is clearly seeking recruits for Hell. It would be better that nobody told them and that they remain ignorant. Why would any loving person even risk telling people the gospel when it could end in them rejecting it and ending up in hell? Preachers and missionaries can only really be deemed cruel, uncaring people.

 

3) Yes, it is ridiculous. God set the system in place. It is his fault that the system is so primitive and barbaric. One of my questions is how can a blood sacrifice have any effect on sin. It can't, as it's only a symbolic act. In the end it's up to God whether he forgives or not. He supposedly can let off babies, those who have never heard the gospel and those who are mentally retarded, so obviously no sacrifice is needed. In the long run it's God that chooses to forgive or not, it's him that chooses to cleanse you of your sin. The sacrifice is superfluous and only really serves to sooth his murderous rage.

[★ Citsonga ★]

Most Christians believe those who have never heard the gospel don't go to Hell.

 

Eh? In my experience, most christians who address the issue of those who've never heard simply say that gawd will deal with them according to his wisdom. The implication is that some would go to hell and others would be saved, based on gawd's manner of weighing each individual's situation (or based on predestination).

 

That still poses a serious problem, of course. If gawd can save people without them ever hearing the gospel, then why spread the gospel?

[Shyone]

That still poses a serious problem, of course. If gawd can save people without them ever hearing the gospel, then why spread the gospel?

This^^

[bird28]

Most of the xtians I knew in college believed that the ones that didn't hear the gospel would go to heaven because they didn't know. But since they had to spread the gospel, they believed that they would send people to hell, but they did what the Bible said to do.

 

In fact, they would tell people "now that you have heard, now you have the choice to go to Heaven or Hell"

 

I just don't know who in their right minds would spread the Gospel if they thought it would send some people to Hell... I hated that even as an xtian and I would refuse to evangelize.

[Franko47]

I used to play this little game with Christians where I would ask them if a five year old boy killed in India on his bicycle would go to heaven. "Likely", they would say.

 

Then I would incrementally move on to "six", and then "seven", until they would have to decide on a cutoff date. I believe the age of accountability in the Roman church is six, although I could be wrong.

 

There are many Christians who secretly believe that those who have not heard the gospel are not totally blameless. There's a word for this, but I can't remember it. It's connected to whether or not you're written in the so-called "book of life", a concept that for a long time used to scare me quite a bit. It explained why I wasn't getting any feedback from the Lord, and so on. I was eternally cursed no matter how hard I might try.

[oddbird1963]

The one things Christians refuse to do is follow the consequences of their own beliefs about their god to their logical conclusion.

 

The most honest thing I ever heard from one of my seminary professors was the admission: "You know, I'd rather believe that god isn't omnipotent. He loves us and wants to stop all evil, but isn't capable. He's the most powerful being in the universe, but he can't literally do everything."

 

 

These logical inconsistencies are met by Christians with a multiplicity of verbiage. They think mere assertions about what god is doing or how god thinks are good enough proof.

 

But in the end, they can't let themselves take the items you list to their logical conclusion. Otherwise, they too would be ex-Christians.

[Carmen]

Eh? In my experience, most christians who address the issue of those who've never heard simply say that gawd will deal with them according to his wisdom. The implication is that some would go to hell and others would be saved, based on gawd's manner of weighing each individual's situation (or based on predestination).

 

That still poses a serious problem, of course. If gawd can save people without them ever hearing the gospel, then why spread the gospel?

 

Most Christians will be quick to tell you that an innocent child living in an isolated tribe in Africa would go to heaven, but they condemn the Muslims to hell for worshiping the wrong god. Apparently Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, and other large world religions are automatic tickets to the Big Bad Place. How can Christians blame those who were raised in families of other religions? They have been indoctrinated (just like the christians) from birth, and will be very unlikely to convert to some foreign, western religion. so they are going to hell just because they were born with the wrong religion in the wrong part of the world?

 

This gives Christians an excuse to feel smugly superior about their "christian nation" while putting down other nations for supposedly worshiping the wrong gods. Once I was arguing with a die-hard fundy who claimed that "America is the only good country left."

[Seeking]

How can Christians blame those who were raised in families of other religions? They have been indoctrinated (just like the christians) from birth, and will be very unlikely to convert to some foreign, western religion. so they are going to hell just because they were born with the wrong religion in the wrong part of the world?

My parents, who are complete believers in predestination/election, would say, "Well, God didn't choose them, so he purposely had them be born into a country/religion/family where they weren't Christian."

[★ Citsonga ★]

My parents, who are complete believers in predestination/election, would say, "Well, God didn't choose them, so he purposely had them be born into a country/religion/family where they weren't Christian."

 

The almighty asshole!

[Kathlene]

I would just like to point out something here...from this quote from colormixer.

 

God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even christians).

 

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

[Jedah]

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

 

And yet, people can only choose this while they are alive and still have no way of absolutely knowing which religion is true. Once they are being tortured in hell they no longer get to choose that they want to be cleansed. That's the real problem with the situation. We have heard the whole "free will argument" a thousand times. We understand everything about it. The problem is that Free Will is meaningless if you can't know what you are freely choosing. It would be like if a man asked another man to pick a number between one and ten, then shot him in the head for guessing incorrectly. Would the defense "He chose the wrong number by his own free will! It's his fault I shot him!" really make the slightest lick of sense in such a situation? Of course it doesn't. That is why the free will defense for hell is invalid. You can't make a choice based on information you don't believe.

 

Funny how free will only counts for the minuscule amount of time where it's all based on luck anyways, but not in eternity where it actually matters.

 

Must not really be that important to God then.

[Che]

I would just like to point out something here...from this quote from colormixer.

 

God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even christians).

 

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

 

It is not that simple is it? What if you don’t have the desire to be near god but don’t want to be tortured for ever and ever either?

 

Ignoring that for now, what I find interesting about your post is that god is meant to be an all-loving parent but will not use his influence to point you in the right direction if it means tampering with your freewill. It seems to me that god prefers to send his children to eternal damnation before acting like a parent.

[Vixentrox]

If Jesus is one with the Father then Jesus is evil. Not much more need be said beyond those that worship an evil being are themselves tainted with the stink of that evil.

[ColorMixer]

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

 

Whats the problem with violating free will? Why does this god value human choice so much that he's going to send his creation to an eternal torment? He's basically saying "I knew before I made you that you wouldn't follow my ridiculously perfect law, because I did not make you perfect. Now you need to believe in me without any solid evidence, otherwise I'm going to burn you for all eternity because of my perfect law." And still he withholds himself from saving his creation.

 

This whole conundrum is a violation of free will already. God is basically putting a gun to your head and saying repent and believe or I'm going to shoot you. What kind of choice is that? If it was real, no one would "choose" to be shot.

 

Who wouldn't want some awesome eternal afterlife? You think people look at god and say: nah, your offer of an eternal afterlife with nothing but joy and pleasure totally sucks? No, it's that they can't muster a faith within themselves for something unseen. It's not a matter of choice, I'm not staring god in the face and obviously seeing heaven and hell on my left and right and obviously choosing hell. He has not shown himself, why should I believe that he's going to torture me or that he even exists?

 

And besides, which god should I follow? God of the bible? God of Islam? God of Mormonism? How could I possibly know which one is the correct one to choose?

 

Your god is punishing people who made honest mistakes. He's not above human understanding, and he's not above human justice. He's worse.

[NotBlinded]

I would just like to point out something here...from this quote from colormixer.

 

God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even christians).

 

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

Isn't this something like affirming the consequent? I mean that in order to say one doesn't like God is admittance that this God exists. I understand that many Christians think like this, but that doesn't mean it's true. If one really believes in the God of the bible and then chooses to be apart from him, then that is fine. But, if one doesn't believe in the God of the bible to begin with, there is no choice to make.

 

It's kind of like people that worship the devil and deny bible God. They are still playing within the same myth.

 

 

Nevermind...I see that was being said in the context of the Christian religion.

[Shyone]

I would just like to point out something here...from this quote from colormixer.

 

God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even christians).

 

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

Isn't this something like affirming the consequent? I mean that in order to say one doesn't like God is admittance that this God exists. I understand that many Christians think like this, but that doesn't mean it's true. If one really believes in the God of the bible and then chooses to be apart from him, then that is fine. But, if one doesn't believe in the God of the bible to begin with, there is no choice to make.

 

It's kind of like people that worship the devil and deny bible God. They are still playing within the same myth.

 

 

Nevermind...I see that was being said in the context of the Christian religion.

I know exactly what you mean, though, and it's easy to be misunderstood when you pretend like there is a god to show a point about their perception of god.

 

Like, "If God is so good, then why does he...?"

 

I'm tempted to change the context so the Christian has to pretend that my 6 foot tall rabbit is real in order to explain why I should believe in their 6 foot rabbit.

 

Uh, nevermind.

[NotBlinded]

I know exactly what you mean, though, and it's easy to be misunderstood when you pretend like there is a god to show a point about their perception of god.

 

Like, "If God is so good, then why does he...?"

 

I'm tempted to change the context so the Christian has to pretend that my 6 foot tall rabbit is real in order to explain why I should believe in their 6 foot rabbit.

 

Uh, nevermind.

That may be a great idea. It might allow them to have an "aha" moment if it can be tied back to their thinking.

 

Uh, yeah, nevermind.

 

[Crazy Donna]

I would just like to point out something here...from this quote from colormixer.

 

God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even christians).

 

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

 

 

If god existed, and created everyone knowing full well their every motive, deed, thought, impulse, and experience, then that would render free will a lie. Free will, in the context of an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient god, would only be an illusion. We would think we have free will, and the ability to choose god or reject him, but since god in this context would have created us knowing we would either choose him or reject him, our decision either way would be meaningless. Our destiny would be already chosen by god. We would be like guinea pigs bred by some sicko to be deliberately burned to death in a ten gallon drum.

 

If I could actually do something that your god had not anticipated, that he was somehow unable to predict, had not planned, and was not in my 'programming', this would constitute an act of free will. However, if that was possible (in the hypothetical event that the god of abraham actually exists) then the god of the bible, who is described as all knowing, all powerful, and all present, would not be all knowing. The god of the bible would have to be ignorant of the behaviour of his own creation for an act of free will to occur. This would undoubtedly undermine his status as 'god', since being all knowing is pretty much a key selection criteria in the job description of god.

 

Cleansing humanity of its sins, in this context, would not violate free will, because if we only have the illusion of free will, there is nothing to violate. The god of the bible (god, jesus, and the holy spirit) created hell to punish people eternally for breaking rules that are impossible for human beings to keep. It isn't even a legitimate punishment. A punishment should teach someone a lesson so that they resolve not to break rules in the future. It should build character. The punishment of hell doled out by the god of the bible is simply there to destroy, not improve humanity. There is no opportunity post punishment to demonstrate learning.

 

If I have to choose to want to be cleansed, and recognise my sin is what separates me from god, then this is merely another layer of the illusion of free will. Any choice I make, (assuming hypothetically in this example that the god of the bible exists) is already predetermined by a god who created me knowing my every thought and action before I performed it. This god of the bible chose to make a human being who would reject him, so he would have an excuse to torture that human being for an eternity. Obviously, given a choice between burning for an eternity in the pits of hell, or not burning for an eternity, most of humanity would choose not burning. However, whether I want to burn in hell or not is irrelevant, because my fate has already been determined by the god who sets the criteria for who will go to hell and who won't, and then deliberately creates beings who he knows will fail, apparently because torturing the unbelievers pleases him. If it didn't please him, he would not have set unrealistic behavioural expectations of his creation, then created them deliberately to fail his expectations.

 

And another thing. How can my sin separate me from god, if god is present everywhere? Is not omnipresence a quality of god? A god who is neither all knowing, nor omnipresent, is not really much of a god. How can my sin separate me from something that is everywhere? Either god is not omnipresent, or sin is unable to separate me from god. If god is omnipresent, then nothing can separate me from god. Having no desire to be near him would be meaningless. It would be like having a tumour on your back. Everywhere you go, it follows. Not wanting it to be there does not make it go away. If not wanting anything to do with god made god immediately leave, then god would not be omnipresent. Also, god would have created me knowing that I didn't want anything to do with him. Therefore, he would have created me knowing that I would be destined for hell. Either he didn't know I would become an ex christian (rendering his omniscience a lie) or free will is an illusion. There can be no free will if god is all knowing, all powerful, and present everywhere.

 

So there we have it. A god who is now only all powerful, but still won't do anything about the evil in the world. No longer all knowing (because if it is our fault we sin and go to hell, we must be doing something he didn't know we would ultimately do, so he can no longer be all knowing) and no longer omnipresent, because our sins (which he created us knowing full well we would perform) apparently separate us from god.

 

If an all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent god created human beings knowing they would break his rules (which he created with the knowledge that humans could not keep those rules) then he is a monster and the salvation he offers is a farce. If he had not created rules that were impossible to keep, there would be no need of salvation. He created Eve knowing that she would fail the temptation test and send untold millions to hell because of it. Either we have 'free will' and a god who doesn't know what is going on, or you are currently worshipping a very, very evil being. That's the conclusion I came to when I started thinking about these issues, and probably one of the things that undermined my faith in a god who was inherently good. The christian worldview in this scenario just doesn't add up. Either we have free will, or we have a god who is a god in name only.

[Kathlene]

I would just like to point out something here...from this quote from colormixer.

 

God should at the end of the world just "cleanse" everyone, allowing all to come into heaven, since all have sinned and continue to do so (even christians).

 

Would this not be violating your free will? What if you don't want to be cleansed? What if you don't like god and have no desire whatsover to be near him?

 

There's the rub...you have to choose to want to be cleansed and recognise that its your sin that separates you from God. Now thats a hard one to tackle.

 

 

If god existed, and created everyone knowing full well their every motive, deed, thought, impulse, and experience, then that would render free will a lie. Free will, in the context of an omnipotent, omnipresent, and omniscient god, would only be an illusion. We would think we have free will, and the ability to choose god or reject him, but since god in this context would have created us knowing we would either choose him or reject him, our decision either way would be meaningless. Our destiny would be already chosen by god. We would be like guinea pigs bred by some sicko to be deliberately burned to death in a ten gallon drum.

 

If I could actually do something that your god had not anticipated, that he was somehow unable to predict, had not planned, and was not in my 'programming', this would constitute an act of free will. However, if that was possible (in the hypothetical event that the god of abraham actually exists) then the god of the bible, who is described as all knowing, all powerful, and all present, would not be all knowing. The god of the bible would have to be ignorant of the behaviour of his own creation for an act of free will to occur. This would undoubtedly undermine his status as 'god', since being all knowing is pretty much a key selection criteria in the job description of god.

 

Cleansing humanity of its sins, in this context, would not violate free will, because if we only have the illusion of free will, there is nothing to violate. The god of the bible (god, jesus, and the holy spirit) created hell to punish people eternally for breaking rules that are impossible for human beings to keep. It isn't even a legitimate punishment. A punishment should teach someone a lesson so that they resolve not to break rules in the future. It should build character. The punishment of hell doled out by the god of the bible is simply there to destroy, not improve humanity. There is no opportunity post punishment to demonstrate learning.

 

If I have to choose to want to be cleansed, and recognise my sin is what separates me from god, then this is merely another layer of the illusion of free will. Any choice I make, (assuming hypothetically in this example that the god of the bible exists) is already predetermined by a god who created me knowing my every thought and action before I performed it. This god of the bible chose to make a human being who would reject him, so he would have an excuse to torture that human being for an eternity. Obviously, given a choice between burning for an eternity in the pits of hell, or not burning for an eternity, most of humanity would choose not burning. However, whether I want to burn in hell or not is irrelevant, because my fate has already been determined by the god who sets the criteria for who will go to hell and who won't, and then deliberately creates beings who he knows will fail, apparently because torturing the unbelievers pleases him. If it didn't please him, he would not have set unrealistic behavioural expectations of his creation, then created them deliberately to fail his expectations.

 

And another thing. How can my sin separate me from god, if god is present everywhere? Is not omnipresence a quality of god? A god who is neither all knowing, nor omnipresent, is not really much of a god. How can my sin separate me from something that is everywhere? Either god is not omnipresent, or sin is unable to separate me from god. If god is omnipresent, then nothing can separate me from god. Having no desire to be near him would be meaningless. It would be like having a tumour on your back. Everywhere you go, it follows. Not wanting it to be there does not make it go away. If not wanting anything to do with god made god immediately leave, then god would not be omnipresent. Also, god would have created me knowing that I didn't want anything to do with him. Therefore, he would have created me knowing that I would be destined for hell. Either he didn't know I would become an ex christian (rendering his omniscience a lie) or free will is an illusion. There can be no free will if god is all knowing, all powerful, and present everywhere.

 

So there we have it. A god who is now only all powerful, but still won't do anything about the evil in the world. No longer all knowing (because if it is our fault we sin and go to hell, we must be doing something he didn't know we would ultimately do, so he can no longer be all knowing) and no longer omnipresent, because our sins (which he created us knowing full well we would perform) apparently separate us from god.

 

If an all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent god created human beings knowing they would break his rules (which he created with the knowledge that humans could not keep those rules) then he is a monster and the salvation he offers is a farce. If he had not created rules that were impossible to keep, there would be no need of salvation. He created Eve knowing that she would fail the temptation test and send untold millions to hell because of it. Either we have 'free will' and a god who doesn't know what is going on, or you are currently worshipping a very, very evil being. That's the conclusion I came to when I started thinking about these issues, and probably one of the things that undermined my faith in a god who was inherently good. The christian worldview in this scenario just doesn't add up. Either we have free will, or we have a god who is a god in name only.

 

Great post! It certainly gives me a lot to think about and chew over..mmm. I will mull over this. Thankyou.

[Crazy Donna]

Kathlene, I mean this sincerely. If you don't want to lose your faith, don't think about it too much. That's what I did, and I'm warning you, you'll reach a point where there is no going back, and the god of christianity will become unreal to you. Losing my faith was traumatic, especially since I have a fundamentalist for a mother and work with christians. Christianity was one of the things that defined my identity, so losing it was a big deal. My faith was very comforting, and once it was gone, I had to learn to deal with reality in a totally differnt way. So be careful. I would LOVE to believe again, but I just can't, just like I can't believe in the Easter Bunny or that Dame Edna Everidge is a woman. Thinking is fine, but be prepared for the emotional consequences of where it might take you. Personally, I miss faith, but at least now I'm intellectually satisfied with my understanding of the world, and that's pretty damn good. While losing my faith was traumatic, I don't regret now where I am spiritually. I feel free because I'm not tied down to a set of beliefs I don't agree with 100%. But I wasn't always this happy. I grieved for a long time. So just be careful.

[Kathlene]

Kathlene, I mean this sincerely. If you don't want to lose your faith, don't think about it too much. That's what I did, and I'm warning you, you'll reach a point where there is no going back, and the god of christianity will become unreal to you. Losing my faith was traumatic, especially since I have a fundamentalist for a mother and work with christians. Christianity was one of the things that defined my identity, so losing it was a big deal. My faith was very comforting, and once it was gone, I had to learn to deal with reality in a totally differnt way. So be careful. I would LOVE to believe again, but I just can't, just like I can't believe in the Easter Bunny or that Dame Edna Everidge is a woman. Thinking is fine, but be prepared for the emotional consequences of where it might take you. Personally, I miss faith, but at least now I'm intellectually satisfied with my understanding of the world, and that's pretty damn good. While losing my faith was traumatic, I don't regret now where I am spiritually. I feel free because I'm not tied down to a set of beliefs I don't agree with 100%. But I wasn't always this happy. I grieved for a long time. So just be careful.

 

Donna, I have already done the walking away from God thing. Dont worry it wont be happening again anytime too soon, lol. I just liked your post and the thought that went into it, and it does indeed make you think. I just need a couple of days to chew over it. Thanks.