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Goodbye Jesus

I'm Completely Lost...


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Guest confused idiot

With all of these recent earthquakes we've had, it makes me think about the biblical prophecies that the number of earthquakes will be increased in the last days. This concerns me for more than one reason.

 

... according to the "US Geological Survey" this statement is not correct.

 

http://www.accuweather.com/blogs/news/story/25904/has-the-number-of-earthquakes.asp

 

I have heard this statement from Christians ALL my own life of 50 odd years! I would assume this statement has also been used by Christians for the past hundreds of years as a means of further getting their agenda across. Naturally earthquakes WILL seem to be much more common in the modern world as we have far greater means of detecting them at any strength. Also with the world's modern communication network such happenings travel worldwide at a flash.

 

We have to appreciate at the time the bible was written earthquakes would have been regarded as no more than God or greater powers metering punishment on an evil world! Fortunately we now know why they happen.

 

If you live in one of the fault areas known for earthquakes, with modern technology we now know they happen on a near daily basis. Many of these are not felt but are detected by seismic instruments. Check for instance the activity around New Zealand in the past month or so.

 

http://www.geonet.org.nz/earthquake/quakes/recent_quakes.html

 

I think 'Confused" you have to realise knowledge is christianity's greatest adversary. You have to get outside material that is "chocolate coated" by christians for christian consumption! It is only then you will find how much christianity feeds itself from within!

 

Interesting link.

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I think 'Confused" you have to realise knowledge is christianity's greatest adversary. You have to get outside material that is "chocolate coated" by christians for christian consumption! It is only then you will find how much christianity feeds itself from within!

 

Interesting link.

I am reminded of something that happened to me when I was 17 years old (during the Cretaceous era).

 

I bought Hal Lindsey's book, "The Late Great Planet Earth." I was amazed at how biblical prophecy could actually specifically predict events in the future. I got out my bible and used a red marker to mark the passages quoted in his book to see how they fit together. Were they close, or scattered? Were they in sequence?

 

Well, what I found was that the quotes were taken out of context (strikingly like the prophecies of Jesus), and they had nothing to do with predicting the future.

 

And now we are (according to the book) 23 years after the end of the earth.

 

And I didn't even notice.

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Guest confused idiot

I think 'Confused" you have to realise knowledge is christianity's greatest adversary. You have to get outside material that is "chocolate coated" by christians for christian consumption! It is only then you will find how much christianity feeds itself from within!

 

Interesting link.

I am reminded of something that happened to me when I was 17 years old (during the Cretaceous era).

 

I bought Hal Lindsey's book, "The Late Great Planet Earth." I was amazed at how biblical prophecy could actually specifically predict events in the future. I got out my bible and used a red marker to mark the passages quoted in his book to see how they fit together. Were they close, or scattered? Were they in sequence?

 

Well, what I found was that the quotes were taken out of context (strikingly like the prophecies of Jesus), and they had nothing to do with predicting the future.

 

And now we are (according to the book) 23 years after the end of the earth.

 

And I didn't even notice.

 

Hal Lindsey actually put a date of what he thought was the end of the world in his book? Interesting....

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Hal Lindsey actually put a date of what he thought was the end of the world in his book? Interesting....

There is a long history of religious end of the world prophecies, and all of the ones that have tried to put a date on them have been shown to be fools. Here is a collection of 200 failed prophecies (including Hal Lindsey's prophecies - several of them).

 

Oh, and that includes Jesus when he predicted that all of the things that are supposed to happen at the end of times would happen "before all who are standing here have tasted of death."

 

Missed it by... THAT much!

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1988

Rapture in Rosh Hashanna Sept. 1988 before Sept 21, Edgar C. Whisenant (Book: 88 Reasons Why the Rapture Will be in 1988 (cites Joe Civelli as agreeing with his conclusions)

 

I think I've mentioned this before. But I met this guy in 1989 just before Jesus was supposed to come back - - - this time - - really . For sure!

 

He was pushy, fast-talking and tried to dominate the conversation and hand out copies of his cheaply put together book.

 

He drove a little red Chevy Chevette that was packed full of those books.

 

There was a look about him. He had the look of someone desperate to be heard and believed. He so needed to be the ONE who figured out the key to knowing about what God will do that nobody else mattered. No one. I just let him tell me his schpeel. I let his verbiage pass by me like an ill wind. Then he left. And when he drove off, the bank manager where I worked and everyone else said, "What a nut!"

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Guest confused idiot

Hal Lindsey actually put a date of what he thought was the end of the world in his book? Interesting....

There is a long history of religious end of the world prophecies, and all of the ones that have tried to put a date on them have been shown to be fools. Here is a collection of 200 failed prophecies (including Hal Lindsey's prophecies - several of them).

 

Oh, and that includes Jesus when he predicted that all of the things that are supposed to happen at the end of times would happen "before all who are standing here have tasted of death."

 

Missed it by... THAT much!

 

I actually once listened to a study on the Gospel of John by him, I never thought Hal Lindsey would be foolish enough to try to predict any exact dates for the end of the world. Good to know.

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Hal Lindsey actually put a date of what he thought was the end of the world in his book? Interesting....

There is a long history of religious end of the world prophecies, and all of the ones that have tried to put a date on them have been shown to be fools. Here is a collection of 200 failed prophecies (including Hal Lindsey's prophecies - several of them).

 

Oh, and that includes Jesus when he predicted that all of the things that are supposed to happen at the end of times would happen "before all who are standing here have tasted of death."

 

Missed it by... THAT much!

 

I actually once listened to a study on the Gospel of John by him, I never thought Hal Lindsey would be foolish enough to try to predict any exact dates for the end of the world. Good to know.

Isn't that what prophecy (in the sense of prediction) is supposed to be? Useful information, places, dates, etc.

 

My wife believes in Psychics. We even went to a show by John Edwards. I thought it was fascinating, but I also know about "cold reading". It's easy to make vague predictions that are useless. "They will find her remains near a body of water."

 

If prediction were really possible, you would expect some details that were incontrovertible. Since dates are rather incontrovertible, I don't blame him for giving dates. He actually believed he was right even though the biblical passages seemed contrived to me.

 

I'd rather have a prediction I can examine than something as vague as "Soon." Jesus (well, whoever wrote Revelation) liked that word:

 

Rev. 22:7 "Behold, I am coming soon! Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy in this book."

Rev 22:12 "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done.

Rev 22:20 He who testifies to these things says, "Yes, I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus.

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Guest confused idiot

I'm almost through with the book, God vs. the Bible. What I'm reading about the Bible REALLY pisses me off. It seems like a message of hate that goes against anything and everything good in life. I hope this stuff ain't true, because it has fucked with my brain for far too long, and I'm sick and tired of it. I don't think I could be a Christian now even if it was undeniably true. I'm so angry about religion that I could probably deny it even if I knew it was true. But I can't get free of this indoctrination and brainwashing in my mind... So in my mind, it IS true. Which is like a nightmare. One seriously fucked up nightmare.

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I actually once listened to a study on the Gospel of John by him, I never thought Hal Lindsey would be foolish enough to try to predict any exact dates for the end of the world. Good to know.

Isn't that what prophecy (in the sense of prediction) is supposed to be? Useful information, places, dates, etc.

 

When I was a christian I believed in prophecy. However, anytime anyone put a date on Jesus' return, I marked that down as a day it would not happen. After all, Jesus supposedly said that nobody will know "the day or the hour" of his return.

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I'm almost through with the book, God vs. the Bible. What I'm reading about the Bible REALLY pisses me off. It seems like a message of hate that goes against anything and everything good in life. I hope this stuff ain't true, because it has fucked with my brain for far too long, and I'm sick and tired of it.

 

If you have any doubts about what Armstrong is saying in the book, just look up the quoted passages in your own bible.

 

He really has done a good job of showing how problematic the bible is, what with all the genocide and contradictions and such. The only point I recall him making about the bible that I disagree with is when he says that there is a contradiction between Genesis 10 and 11 regarding whether or not there were multiple languages prior to the tower of Babel. I don't think he has a very strong case for that one, but otherwise I'd say he's pretty spot-on in his analysis of the bible.

 

I don't think I could be a Christian now even if it was undeniably true. I'm so angry about religion that I could probably deny it even if I knew it was true. But I can't get free of this indoctrination and brainwashing in my mind... So in my mind, it IS true. Which is like a nightmare. One seriously fucked up nightmare.

 

It's tough, I know. Breaking such strong chains of indoctrination is not easy. Good luck, though, and once you can finally rest assured that christianity is not true, then you can start working on getting past the emotional shit.

 

Oh yeah, just wait until you get to chapter 13, which is about how the concept of hell evolved in the bible. That's quite possibly my favorite part of the book, since it completely destroys the doctrine that the church has most often used to scare people into following christianity.

 

Again, good luck. Enjoy the journey ahead of you....

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I'm almost through with the book, God vs. the Bible. What I'm reading about the Bible REALLY pisses me off. It seems like a message of hate that goes against anything and everything good in life. I hope this stuff ain't true, because it has fucked with my brain for far too long, and I'm sick and tired of it. I don't think I could be a Christian now even if it was undeniably true. I'm so angry about religion that I could probably deny it even if I knew it was true. But I can't get free of this indoctrination and brainwashing in my mind... So in my mind, it IS true. Which is like a nightmare. One seriously fucked up nightmare.

 

I can understand that. I'm sure many of us have had similar thoughts. I used to wish I could believe it but now, no way. When I picked up the Bible without my Christian-tinted glasses I was horrified. The OT had me sobbing with horror and even the words of Jesus didn't seem like the wise and loving words I had been taught they were.

 

Give it time, after a lifetime of indoctrination it takes time to rewire your neural pathways. You'll get there, and if you do find yourself stuck you can always go for a bit of counselling if needed. A good secular counsellor would be able to help you sort things through.

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Guest confused idiot

I just finished the book. I agree, the author did a good job. Still, regardless, it's going to be tough breaking away. I almost feel like the reason I'm searching is because I don't want to believe, and if that's the case, that might mean I'm trying to wilfully convince myself to believe a lie. That's a problem. I didn't just lose faith and say "Oh, well I guess this might not be true after all. That sucks, because I really wanted to believe it." That isn't the case at all. For me, it's more like "This religion is killing me inside and driving me insane, I hope it's not real. I'm going to look for reasons not to believe." With that said, my motives are not pure. Meaning I probably shouldn't trust myself to search for any truth.

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I just finished the book. I agree, the author did a good job. Still, regardless, it's going to be tough breaking away. I almost feel like the reason I'm searching is because I don't want to believe, and if that's the case, that might mean I'm trying to wilfully convince myself to believe a lie. That's a problem. I didn't just lose faith and say "Oh, well I guess this might not be true after all. That sucks, because I really wanted to believe it." That isn't the case at all. For me, it's more like "This religion is killing me inside and driving me insane, I hope it's not real. I'm going to look for reasons not to believe." With that said, my motives are not pure. Meaning I probably shouldn't trust myself to search for any truth.

 

Who ever has totally pure motives? And doesn't it tell you something, that you don't want to believe? If the claims of Christianity are true, if God was who he is supposed to be, why would you be feeling like that? Why would following the One True and Utterly Wonderful and Loving God lead to you feeling that you were being killed inside?

 

If you want to be sure you're being fair and balanced, I would suggest you read "Soul Repair" by Jeff VanVonderen for a perspective on whether you could remain a Christian but in a way that isn't harmful to you (not saying that's what I advise, but you need to find your own way and if looking at all the possibilities helps you then go for it). Bascially he advises ditching your dodgy God and finding a nicer one. Because certainly whatever you do you need to ditch the God you are currently trying to get away from. I only did the ditching part and not the finding a nicer one bit, but I found it helpful to read the book to learn more about how destructive and unhealthy my religion had been.

 

I also highly recommend Marlene Winell's "Leaving the Fold" which has lots of good stuff about the emotional damage of Christianity and how to get over it.

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I just finished the book. I agree, the author did a good job. Still, regardless, it's going to be tough breaking away.

 

It usually is. I felt like a rug had been yanked out from under my feet and I had nowhere to get a foothold. I was a bit depressed for a while. The further and further away from my religious indoctrination I got, the better I felt.

 

I almost feel like the reason I'm searching is because I don't want to believe, and if that's the case, that might mean I'm trying to wilfully convince myself to believe a lie. That's a problem.

 

I agree that that's not the best reason. I would suggest seeking truth, regardless of what it is. Be open-minded but think critically, and see where it leads.

 

That being said, christianity is mythology. That's no lie, it's a fact. If you look at things reasonably, and honestly search to sort out truth from fable, then with the right information (such as some of the stuff in "God vs the Bible") you'll no doubt come to realize that christianity really is not true.

 

This religion is killing me inside and driving me insane

 

As Autonomous has pointed out, would a true religion about an all-loving god (as christianity claims to be) leave you feeling this way?

 

With that said, my motives are not pure. Meaning I probably shouldn't trust myself to search for any truth.

 

I don't know, I'm no counselor, but perhaps you need a little break. Take some time to let things settle, and then approach the subject again when you feel you can look more for truth than just for justifying a particular view. I would always recommend open-mindedness over self-justification.

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Confused,

 

Looks as if everyone else has done a pretty good job replying to the majority of your points, but I did want to comment on something you said about children having to be taught not to lie. Yes, lying is innate. It's a defense mechanism: We lie to avoid undesirable consequences.

 

Mom: Johnny, did you throw that ball through the window? You're in big trouble if you did!

Johnny: No, Mom, honest, it wasn't me!

 

 

It's a protection mechanism: We lie to help those we love, or even a complete stranger.

 

Drunk, Abusive Husband: Where the hell is that bitch?

Loving, Concerned Sister who knows she is upstairs: I haven't seen her today.

 

It's a means to an end: We lie if it can get us something we want or need.

 

DisneyLand Ticket Sales: Children 12 and under get in for 20% less. How old is your son?

Father of 13 year old: Oh, he's 12. He'll be 13 next month.

 

The moral status of lying is not as cut and dry as most religions would like you to think. Do we truly teach children that lying is wrong? We may TELL them that it's wrong to lie and that they should always tell the truth, but then we turn around and lie to them and even tell them to lie.

 

Santa Claus knows if you've been naughty or nice!

 

You have to tell Grandma you like the ugly sweater she knitted you for Christmas!

 

Lying is not intrinsically evil. Even animals lie, and according to at least Christians, animals don't have souls. How does something without a soul do something "immoral" in Christian dogma? Lying is just another evolved trait that's helped us, and apparently other animals as well, to survive.

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I just finished the book. I agree, the author did a good job. Still, regardless, it's going to be tough breaking away. I almost feel like the reason I'm searching is because I don't want to believe, and if that's the case, that might mean I'm trying to wilfully convince myself to believe a lie. That's a problem. I didn't just lose faith and say "Oh, well I guess this might not be true after all. That sucks, because I really wanted to believe it." That isn't the case at all. For me, it's more like "This religion is killing me inside and driving me insane, I hope it's not real. I'm going to look for reasons not to believe." With that said, my motives are not pure. Meaning I probably shouldn't trust myself to search for any truth.

I think most of us approached the Bible with the attitude that reading it would reinforce our faith, or renew our faith. Instead, it drove us away with the cruelty, contradictions and inconsistencies. Even if we had approached it differently, the conclusions would still be the same.

 

I think your current qualms are very honest to the idea that we should not approach something in a biased way and deliberately look only for reasons not to believe. The search for the truth, however doesn't necessarily depend on the initial approach or reasons for searching.

 

You could start with your bible and someone's idea of a way to "harmonize" the resurrection accounts. Here's one at this site. When they start talking about things that "may" have happened, but were not written, and adding details to the stories to "fill in the gaps", you can see that they are stretching the truth - writing things into the accounts that just can't fit with what the accounts themselves say. The result is just malarky IMO, but it wouldn't hurt to compare that harmonization (tentative as it is) with a detailed "challenge" that details the descrepancies like this one.

 

Go back and forth, see which one sticks to the details better and makes the most sense.

 

I think you'll find that it isn't a matter of your current attitude. There are indeed problems with every aspect of scripture, Old and New Testaments. Every aspect. Even the nice stuff.

 

And then, there is reality. Dead people stay dead, and if someone turns water into wine, it's a magic trick. People love a good story, no matter how incredible; gullible people will believe anything.

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Guest confused idiot

Confused,

 

Looks as if everyone else has done a pretty good job replying to the majority of your points, but I did want to comment on something you said about children having to be taught not to lie. Yes, lying is innate. It's a defense mechanism: We lie to avoid undesirable consequences.

 

Mom: Johnny, did you throw that ball through the window? You're in big trouble if you did!

Johnny: No, Mom, honest, it wasn't me!

 

 

It's a protection mechanism: We lie to help those we love, or even a complete stranger.

 

Drunk, Abusive Husband: Where the hell is that bitch?

Loving, Concerned Sister who knows she is upstairs: I haven't seen her today.

 

It's a means to an end: We lie if it can get us something we want or need.

 

DisneyLand Ticket Sales: Children 12 and under get in for 20% less. How old is your son?

Father of 13 year old: Oh, he's 12. He'll be 13 next month.

 

The moral status of lying is not as cut and dry as most religions would like you to think. Do we truly teach children that lying is wrong? We may TELL them that it's wrong to lie and that they should always tell the truth, but then we turn around and lie to them and even tell them to lie.

 

Santa Claus knows if you've been naughty or nice!

 

You have to tell Grandma you like the ugly sweater she knitted you for Christmas!

 

Lying is not intrinsically evil. Even animals lie, and according to at least Christians, animals don't have souls. How does something without a soul do something "immoral" in Christian dogma? Lying is just another evolved trait that's helped us, and apparently other animals as well, to survive.

 

Good point... If I remember correctly, wasn't there a place in the Bible where God told someone to lie? That may not have been the case, but it seems like there was a place somewhere where it was at least encouraged.

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Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but it might be here or here.

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Guest confused idiot

Not sure exactly what you're referring to, but it might be here or here.

 

I'm not sure, it might have been one of those. I can't remember exactly what it was.

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I did want to comment on something you said about children having to be taught not to lie. Yes, lying is innate. It's a defense mechanism: We lie to avoid undesirable consequences.

 

Mom: Johnny, did you throw that ball through the window? You're in big trouble if you did!

Johnny: No, Mom, honest, it wasn't me!

 

 

It's a protection mechanism: We lie to help those we love, or even a complete stranger.

 

Drunk, Abusive Husband: Where the hell is that bitch?

Loving, Concerned Sister who knows she is upstairs: I haven't seen her today.

 

It's a means to an end: We lie if it can get us something we want or need.

 

DisneyLand Ticket Sales: Children 12 and under get in for 20% less. How old is your son?

Father of 13 year old: Oh, he's 12. He'll be 13 next month.

 

The moral status of lying is not as cut and dry as most religions would like you to think.

 

I agree that it's not quite as cut and dry as religionists claim, but of those examples, I would say that only the second one is morally justified. Protecting someone from an abuser is the right thing to do, even if it requires lying. On the other hand, parents who do the DisneyLand example are setting a bad example for their children, in my opinion.

 

Do we truly teach children that lying is wrong? We may TELL them that it's wrong to lie and that they should always tell the truth, but then we turn around and lie to them and even tell them to lie.

 

Santa Claus knows if you've been naughty or nice!

 

You have to tell Grandma you like the ugly sweater she knitted you for Christmas!

 

I have two children, and I do not lie to them or suggest that they lie to others, and to the best of my knowledge my wife doesn't either. Although perhaps we should have let them have some fun with Santa Claus, our children were always told that he's not real. And, while we teach our children to not be rude about gifts they receive, we have never told them to lie about it.

 

Perhaps I'm too much of a stickler, but to me lying is only justified when there is a real danger to be avoided, such as in the abuse example above (though I guess I would allow for the Santa exception, since it can be a fun thing for kids and they eventually find out the truth).

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You don't have to 'trust' yourself completely, you only have to explain your beliefs and examine them in the light of evidence. Whether you want to believe or not, you can look at the evidence that shows that the bible is a contradicting old document, the first half is more or less the 'history of the Jews and their culture' and the second is the supposed events of Jesus written decades after he died, and what they meant to Paul who was not Jesus but for some reason gets to make the dogma. You can learn about evolution and realize nothing about Earth needs divine influence, it can be explained in other simpler ways. You can learn about other religions and how each culture created their own gods to explain what their own observations could not. You can study history and learn how most of the supposedly sacred and enlightened institutions have participated in massacres. You can read the bible or christian apologetics if you like, and watch them try and defend their faith, and think about which arguments have more merit.

 

If you want to explain the world without gods, and you can make the logical argument to do so, then it's okay to accept that argument. Sure, you sure always test your theories about the world, and revise them should new information come to light, but most theist arguments about a god that cares about humanity come down to 'you have to have faith', which is another way of saying 'we don't have evidence or logic for it'

 

So you can know you are not willfully believing a lie because you can look at the evidence. Evolution isn't a emotional argument, it's all backed by observations of what is in this world. Same with biblical criticism. The contradictions you can look up yourself. We know that the Council of Nicaea really happened, that the bible was put together by Romans centuries after Christ died, when their empire was being torn by religious strife, and that many books were left out of it. We know that people from other religions describe the same spiritual experiences as Christians, which implies Christianity's miracles are not unique. Their accounts are not fabricated by someone trying to trick you.

 

It is good that you are being vigilant against being tricked, this will always help you, but you must apply it equally to both sides. If you are willing to say you are worried about believing a lie because you want to, you must always say you could be finally rejecting and disproving an earlier lie, which of course is something you'd want to do because you care about truth. The you must look at the evidence over and over again and construct the logic for each side, and see if any mistakes were made. For example, the bible was inspired by God, and it is the evidence for god, who inspired the bible, which is the evidence for god, etc. You can see that that is a circular argument, and does not make sense.

 

If your motive is truth, then it is pure.

 

If it is all overwhelming, it may be good to take a break. None of us think about this stuff 24/7.

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Guest confused idiot

You don't have to 'trust' yourself completely, you only have to explain your beliefs and examine them in the light of evidence. Whether you want to believe or not, you can look at the evidence that shows that the bible is a contradicting old document, the first half is more or less the 'history of the Jews and their culture' and the second is the supposed events of Jesus written decades after he died, and what they meant to Paul who was not Jesus but for some reason gets to make the dogma. You can learn about evolution and realize nothing about Earth needs divine influence, it can be explained in other simpler ways. You can learn about other religions and how each culture created their own gods to explain what their own observations could not. You can study history and learn how most of the supposedly sacred and enlightened institutions have participated in massacres. You can read the bible or christian apologetics if you like, and watch them try and defend their faith, and think about which arguments have more merit.

 

If you want to explain the world without gods, and you can make the logical argument to do so, then it's okay to accept that argument. Sure, you sure always test your theories about the world, and revise them should new information come to light, but most theist arguments about a god that cares about humanity come down to 'you have to have faith', which is another way of saying 'we don't have evidence or logic for it'

 

So you can know you are not willfully believing a lie because you can look at the evidence. Evolution isn't a emotional argument, it's all backed by observations of what is in this world. Same with biblical criticism. The contradictions you can look up yourself. We know that the Council of Nicaea really happened, that the bible was put together by Romans centuries after Christ died, when their empire was being torn by religious strife, and that many books were left out of it. We know that people from other religions describe the same spiritual experiences as Christians, which implies Christianity's miracles are not unique. Their accounts are not fabricated by someone trying to trick you.

 

It is good that you are being vigilant against being tricked, this will always help you, but you must apply it equally to both sides. If you are willing to say you are worried about believing a lie because you want to, you must always say you could be finally rejecting and disproving an earlier lie, which of course is something you'd want to do because you care about truth. The you must look at the evidence over and over again and construct the logic for each side, and see if any mistakes were made. For example, the bible was inspired by God, and it is the evidence for god, who inspired the bible, which is the evidence for god, etc. You can see that that is a circular argument, and does not make sense.

 

If your motive is truth, then it is pure.

 

If it is all overwhelming, it may be good to take a break. None of us think about this stuff 24/7.

 

That's true. I guess you're right, all that can really be done is to prayerfully look at the evidence and come to a conclusion based on that. I think I may take that break too. It wouldn't hurt. It would probably give me a bit more clarity of mind.

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confused, you need something or somebody to convince you that religion is all bullshit. i am no longer a believer myself. when i was a xtian i was confused, mixed up, depressed, worried, just like you. i know just what you are going thru. i thought i would lose my mind when i was a believer. that crap had me almost going crazy. i had so many questions. i was worried all the time. who needs that. that is no way to live. now that i am an unbeliever i am free. i am truly free. and its the best feeling in the world.

 

fear is what is keeping you. fear of what though? fear that something bad is going to happen if you stop believing or question things. what helped me was the realization that bad things happen whether you believe or not. shit happens in life and it has nothing to do with nothing. life is random like that.

 

youre scared of hell too. but its all made up. heaven and hell are fairytales. the bible is a book of fairytales. it too is made up. nothing happens when a person dies. he's put in the ground and he rots nothing more. think of all the billions of people who have died since the beginning of time. they are still in their graves. the sooner you get rid of religion the sooner you will get rid of your fear and depression. religion is doing more harm than good to you. i hope this helps. look up 'god is imaginary' and 'why wont god heal amputees'. these websites cinched it for me. some people need religion and some people dont. i dont

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Guest confused idiot

confused, you need something or somebody to convince you that religion is all bullshit. i am no longer a believer myself. when i was a xtian i was confused, mixed up, depressed, worried, just like you. i know just what you are going thru. i thought i would lose my mind when i was a believer. that crap had me almost going crazy. i had so many questions. i was worried all the time. who needs that. that is no way to live. now that i am an unbeliever i am free. i am truly free. and its the best feeling in the world.

 

fear is what is keeping you. fear of what though? fear that something bad is going to happen if you stop believing or question things. what helped me was the realization that bad things happen whether you believe or not. shit happens in life and it has nothing to do with nothing. life is random like that.

 

youre scared of hell too. but its all made up. heaven and hell are fairytales. the bible is a book of fairytales. it too is made up. nothing happens when a person dies. he's put in the ground and he rots nothing more. think of all the billions of people who have died since the beginning of time. they are still in their graves. the sooner you get rid of religion the sooner you will get rid of your fear and depression. religion is doing more harm than good to you. i hope this helps. look up 'god is imaginary' and 'why wont god heal amputees'. these websites cinched it for me. some people need religion and some people dont. i dont

 

I have by no means "arrived" at any conclusion about anything yet, but I'm starting to see more and more every day the strong possibility that religion may in fact be complete bullshit.

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here's some responses to your questions

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What about all the fulfilled prophecy in the Bible? What about "miraculous" testimonies?

 

---- its all made up, never happened. it was all created to brainwash you into believing. i put no stock in the bible whatsoever. i dont believe a single thing in it. if somebody comes to me quoting the bible i dont want to hear it.

 

I've never studied evolution, so I can't say much about it. But whether it all started from a big bang or not, SOMETHING had to start it.

 

----the answer is, nobody knows how it all started. but yet we're supposed to believe a crazy book full of contradictions and fairytales. the bible is so messed up to the point you cant believe nothing in it.

 

one example is, jesus tells you to hate your family, but love your enemies. thats ridiculous. now that im an unbeliever i look at church on tv and listen to it on the radio more than ever. i listen to hear how illogical it is. it fascinates me to hear all the illogical crap that preachers spew week in and week out. its laughable. im actually hooked on church now (tv church and you tube church). i love 'the word network'. people who sit in church are programmed and the pastors are brainwashed. a perfect example of the brainwashing power of church and religion is JIM JONES. those people were brainwashed.

 

if god gave us free will then why is he punishing us for using it. maybe because none of it exists in the first place.

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