I'm Completely Lost...

[StevoMuso]

I've never studied evolution, so I can't say much about it. But whether it all started from a big bang or not, SOMETHING had to start it.

 

----the answer is, nobody knows how it all started. but yet we're supposed to believe a crazy book full of contradictions and fairytales. the bible is so messed up to the point you cant believe nothing in it.

The most accurate answer to the "origin of the universe" question is: "we don't know yet". There are many theories, but the Biblical one is one of the least likely to be true (good old Occam - first slice of his razor goes to the BuyBull).

[Guest confused idiot]

here's some responses to your questions

====================================

What about all the fulfilled prophecy in the Bible? What about "miraculous" testimonies?

 

---- its all made up, never happened. it was all created to brainwash you into believing. i put no stock in the bible whatsoever. i dont believe a single thing in it. if somebody comes to me quoting the bible i dont want to hear it.

 

I've never studied evolution, so I can't say much about it. But whether it all started from a big bang or not, SOMETHING had to start it.

 

----the answer is, nobody knows how it all started. but yet we're supposed to believe a crazy book full of contradictions and fairytales. the bible is so messed up to the point you cant believe nothing in it.

 

one example is, jesus tells you to hate your family, but love your enemies. thats ridiculous. now that im an unbeliever i look at church on tv and listen to it on the radio more than ever. i listen to hear how illogical it is. it fascinates me to hear all the illogical crap that preachers spew week in and week out. its laughable. im actually hooked on church now (tv church and you tube church). i love 'the word network'. people who sit in church are programmed and the pastors are brainwashed. a perfect example of the brainwashing power of church and religion is JIM JONES. those people were brainwashed.

 

if god gave us free will then why is he punishing us for using it. maybe because none of it exists in the first place.

 

I'm starting to consider Deism a possibility.

[Carmen]

The most accurate answer to the "origin of the universe" question is: "we don't know yet". There are many theories, but the Biblical one is one of the least likely to be true (good old Occam - first slice of his razor goes to the BuyBull).

 

Of course Christians would jump on that immediately and say "ha, science can't explain it, so GOD DID IT!" The problem with this is that you can't just make the assumption that all unexplained things are caused by the supernatural. Christians used to believe that schizophrenia was demon possession and that the northern lights were supernatural signs from god. Now we know that schizophrenia is a mental illness and the northern lights are caused by solar storms. Christians claims of the supernatural keep getting weaker and weaker as science continues to advance.

[oddbird1963]

 

Good point... If I remember correctly, wasn't there a place in the Bible where God told someone to lie? That may not have been the case, but it seems like there was a place somewhere where it was at least encouraged.

 

Well, the Bible honors Rahab (Hebrews 11) whose claim to fame is lying to protect the spies who were scoping Jericho out before they laid siege to it, invaded and murdered everyone. You can read that in Joshua 2.

 

But that's not quite God telling someone to lie.

 

It's just honoring a lie to preserve yourself during an invasion.

 

I probably don't remember the exact reference because I was so used to explaining away the lie, that I believed it was okay.

[Guest confused idiot]

 

Good point... If I remember correctly, wasn't there a place in the Bible where God told someone to lie? That may not have been the case, but it seems like there was a place somewhere where it was at least encouraged.

 

Well, the Bible honors Rahab (Hebrews 11) whose claim to fame is lying to protect the spies who were scoping Jericho out before they laid siege to it, invaded and murdered everyone. You can read that in Joshua 2.

 

But that's not quite God telling someone to lie.

 

It's just honoring a lie to preserve yourself during an invasion.

 

I probably don't remember the exact reference because I was so used to explaining away the lie, that I believed it was okay.

 

I think that is the reference that I was trying to think of, thanks.

[StevoMuso]

The most accurate answer to the "origin of the universe" question is: "we don't know yet". There are many theories, but the Biblical one is one of the least likely to be true (good old Occam - first slice of his razor goes to the BuyBull).

Of course Christians would jump on that immediately and say "ha, science can't explain it, so GOD DID IT!" The problem with this is that you can't just make the assumption that all unexplained things are caused by the supernatural. Christians used to believe that schizophrenia was demon possession and that the northern lights were supernatural signs from god. Now we know that schizophrenia is a mental illness and the northern lights are caused by solar storms. Christians claims of the supernatural keep getting weaker and weaker as science continues to advance.

Ancient Greeks used to think thunder and lightning were from Zeus. I wonder how long it took before scientific discovery made all Zeusians finally became Azeusts? My view is that the antidote for faith is knowledge. In fact the very nature of faith is that it is "blind" ... the belief in things "not known". So if faith is synonymous with ignorance, then knowledge is the cure.

[wonder]

I'm starting to consider Deism a possibility.

================================

hey confused, i just looked up deism on google. i feel like this, there may be a god out there, but it sure is not the god of the wholly babble. so what does that make me?

 

anyway, you gotta get rid of that depression. i know because i suffer from it too. mines didnt come from religion. but religion sure didnt help, it made it worse. if yours derives only from religion, then the sooner you get rid of it the sooner youll get rid of your depression. one thing i noticed about my depression is it always seems to come back. so its an ongoing struggle. soon as i have it licked somehow it comes back again and i have to fight it again. i currently have it licked, but i know somehow itll come back and i'll lick it again. aside from religion, a good book that helped me is called 'feeling good' by david burns. that book became my bible. i carried it everywhere. i been reading it for over 20 yrs. i go back to it whenever my depression creeps back in. its the only thing that ever helped my depression.

 

one thing about being free of religion is, i can do anything i want to do now without fear of god, jesus, sinning, the 10 commandments or any of that crap. i also realized that im the same person without religion that i was when i had religion, meaning i was a nice easy going christian, calm, cool, collective, type guy. im still the same person now that i dont believe. once i stopped believing i didnt turn into a crazed maniac. im the same person, just without the 500lb gorilla of religion on my back, fucking with my mind.

[Shyone]

 

Good point... If I remember correctly, wasn't there a place in the Bible where God told someone to lie? That may not have been the case, but it seems like there was a place somewhere where it was at least encouraged.

 

Well, the Bible honors Rahab (Hebrews 11) whose claim to fame is lying to protect the spies who were scoping Jericho out before they laid siege to it, invaded and murdered everyone. You can read that in Joshua 2.

 

But that's not quite God telling someone to lie.

 

It's just honoring a lie to preserve yourself during an invasion.

 

I probably don't remember the exact reference because I was so used to explaining away the lie, that I believed it was okay.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

[ShallowByThyGame]

The thing about 'creation' is that we really don't know, but are trying to fit our human traditions into a hole they don't have to fit in.

 

It could be that God blew himself up and that was the big bang. Or maybe it just happened as a property of matter that we don't have the means to measure yet.

 

If you are a Deist, you must mull these questions: Does the Creator how power over us or did his power simply enable the creation and that was it. Does the Creator interact with us in any meaningful way, and how? Is It a sentience, or simply a force without comparable human thoughts and emotions? Does It exist in ways that could somehow be explained if It wanted to be(scientific observation, actual particles we can't yet detect?), or is It beyond logic. Could any human possibly understand it? Do we have souls and how do they interact with It? Does this apply to all living species? If It wasn't there, how would life be different?

 

Of course, for each answer you are simply guessing, and probably projecting what you would like to be true, since we have no verifiable evidence for it. After all, these questions are discussing things outside of known science, but theology has always done that, and as science has grown, theology has retreated to the Big Bang as it's last refuge of mystery. Maybe you want to, or do, feel connected to the Universe, but I don't think the Gods are necessary for that, as we ourselves are made of atoms that were once inside stars. It is only natural that we gaze at existence with awe.

 

If you fear living a life without spirituality, then do not think atheism requires you reject the concept,

[Guest confused idiot]

I'm starting to consider Deism a possibility.

================================

hey confused, i just looked up deism on google. i feel like this, there may be a god out there, but it sure is not the god of the wholly babble. so what does that make me?

 

anyway, you gotta get rid of that depression. i know because i suffer from it too. mines didnt come from religion. but religion sure didnt help, it made it worse. if yours derives only from religion, then the sooner you get rid of it the sooner youll get rid of your depression. one thing i noticed about my depression is it always seems to come back. so its an ongoing struggle. soon as i have it licked somehow it comes back again and i have to fight it again. i currently have it licked, but i know somehow itll come back and i'll lick it again. aside from religion, a good book that helped me is called 'feeling good' by david burns. that book became my bible. i carried it everywhere. i been reading it for over 20 yrs. i go back to it whenever my depression creeps back in. its the only thing that ever helped my depression.

 

one thing about being free of religion is, i can do anything i want to do now without fear of god, jesus, sinning, the 10 commandments or any of that crap. i also realized that im the same person without religion that i was when i had religion, meaning i was a nice easy going christian, calm, cool, collective, type guy. im still the same person now that i dont believe. once i stopped believing i didnt turn into a crazed maniac. im the same person, just without the 500lb gorilla of religion on my back, fucking with my mind.

 

You're right. For a long time now I've been searching for a way to remove the depression without removing the root, which is religion... That clearly isn't working.

 

 

The thing about 'creation' is that we really don't know, but are trying to fit our human traditions into a hole they don't have to fit in.

 

It could be that God blew himself up and that was the big bang. Or maybe it just happened as a property of matter that we don't have the means to measure yet.

 

If you are a Deist, you must mull these questions: Does the Creator how power over us or did his power simply enable the creation and that was it. Does the Creator interact with us in any meaningful way, and how? Is It a sentience, or simply a force without comparable human thoughts and emotions? Does It exist in ways that could somehow be explained if It wanted to be(scientific observation, actual particles we can't yet detect?), or is It beyond logic. Could any human possibly understand it? Do we have souls and how do they interact with It? Does this apply to all living species? If It wasn't there, how would life be different?

 

Of course, for each answer you are simply guessing, and probably projecting what you would like to be true, since we have no verifiable evidence for it. After all, these questions are discussing things outside of known science, but theology has always done that, and as science has grown, theology has retreated to the Big Bang as it's last refuge of mystery. Maybe you want to, or do, feel connected to the Universe, but I don't think the Gods are necessary for that, as we ourselves are made of atoms that were once inside stars. It is only natural that we gaze at existence with awe.

 

If you fear living a life without spirituality, then do not think atheism requires you reject the concept,

 

Just so you know, I definitely wouldn't call myself a Deist, not yet anyway. All I meant was is that I'm looking at it saying "Hmm.... Maybe this idea isn't as crazy as I thought it was." All I'm saying is I'm considering it a possibility.

[StevoMuso]

i also realized that im the same person without religion that i was when i had religion, meaning i was a nice easy going christian, calm, cool, collective, type guy. im still the same person now that i dont believe. once i stopped believing i didnt turn into a crazed maniac. im the same person, just without the 500lb gorilla of religion on my back, fucking with my mind.

Those were the exact same thoughts I had on the day of my de-conversion. It comes from the removal of that little "God-exists" paradigm at the back of our minds.

[Crazy Donna]

Dear Confused Idiot

 

It's funny you called yourself 'confused idiot' because the original meaning of 'idiot' was simply a layperson, in Attic Greek. These were people who didn't involve themselves with the Athenian political system. It was more a descriptor, not really an insult, although not being involved with politics was looked on as a bit zany and strange.

 

Now, I was a christian for a pretty long time. I've read the bible from cover to cover, and frankly, the old testament is truly appalling. What I am trying to say is that I read the bible critically, without trying to rationalise the appalling, sickening bits as 'gods will'. For want of a better word, I used what I refer to as my 'bullshit detector' when I read it. Critical literacy is a skill ANYONE can learn. It is asking the deeper questions, like "Does the writer have a vested interest? Does this really look like a fair presentation of both sides of the argument?" It is the skill that tells you that the advertisement for miracle wrinkle cream probably is exaggerating the qualities of that cream for their own financial gain. You can learn this skill. Once you learn critical literacy, you will find that when you read things, your mind will automatically challenge it and rebut arguments. It is a very useful skill to have, and from your posts, you are not dumb. There is obviously NOTHING wrong with your intellect.

 

Tricks that should set off your bullshit detector include the following.

(1) They paint the opposition as corrupt, for example scientists or the medical profession, in order to explain negative scientific results.

(2) They skirt around, or neglect to mention, opposing arguments or evidence, especially ones that are blatantly obvious.

(3) They don't back up their work with references -- at least a bibliography at the back of the book. If they don't do this, how do you know they aren't just making stuff up?

(4) They rely on testimonials and anecdotal evidence, rather than scientific facts.

(5) They make appeals to emotion, so that you feel, rather than think, about things. If someone does this, be skeptical. If their evidence was sound, they wouldn't have to distract you with feelings. Look for facts, not emotions.

 

Think critically about what you read, especially when you read apologetics. Scientists, on the whole, only present the facts, and some basic interpretations of the data, but you should still read their work with a critical eye. Use your common sense. You know Polio is a horrible disease, and you know Polio cases have gone down since immunisation was introduced, so there is probably a link between those two facts. Polio immunisation protects people against polio, despite what the anti vaccination people tell you. The bible is exactly the same. You know that virgins do not give birth (at least, not in our species) and you know what people would think if a person today said "I'm a virgin and I'm pregnant". Jesus was not a virgin birth. Perseus, Buddha, and Ghengis Khan were also all virgin births. It was a common ploy in ancient times to say that someone was born of a virgin, because it implied they were special. Nobody is born of a virgin in the human species, unless there is artificial insemination involved, and that is only a modern convenience.

 

Secondly, I think what you are experiencing is the fear of hell. You have been raised to fear hell. No doubt it scares the crap out of you. Realise that you are no different to a woman who has been beaten by her husband. She loves her husband and thinks he loves her, but he still beats the living daylights out of her, and she stays because she thinks he loves her. Once she is away from the situation, she can realise that he might love her, but he doesn't respect her enough to keep his fists to himself, and that isn't love. She is better off without him.

 

The threat of hell is like the threat of a wifebeating husband, and the further away you get from both, the clearer you will see things. Eventually you will see it for the fairy story it is.

 

I recommend you read some of the following books. Buy them on ebay. That way, nobody else needs to know what you're reading, and you can reread them at your leisure.

 

Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion". Read that one first. Others that explain evolution are "Climbing Mount Improbable" and "The Selfish Gene".

Christopher Hitchins "God is Not Great." Should also be read with "The God Delusion". It'll help you see things more clearly.

 

I had a great book called "Evolution and the myth of creationism" by Berra, I think it was, and it explained creationism and evolution side by side, debunking the creationist camp. It helped me understand evolution, and was pretty simple to read. It's not a huge tome, either.

 

It would also help to study a few other religions from a secular perspective. This helps you to realise that christianity is not the only worldview, and once you see how similar it is to some other traditions, it will lose a lot of it's power over you.

 

Good luck with your deconversion.

[Shyone]

(4) They rely on testimonials and anecdotal evidence, rather than scientific facts.

This is true, but I understand what they are aiming for.

 

They are looking for the exception that disproves the rule. The Silver Bullet. The case that falsifies the scientific research.

 

I thought it was peculiar that when looking through apologetic literature on creationism (in particular), they grasp some miniscule exception and hold that out as the proof that the whole of science regarding that issue or theory is wrong. Scientists know what it would take to disprove their theories. As one said (and I paraphrase), one rabbit fossil in the Cretaceous layer would disprove evolution.

 

Well, that's a bit severe, but it illustrates the point of view of the creationist as well - even if they have to fabricate the fossils or data in order to produce the scientific evidence that evolution did not occur. Scientists would indeed investigate such a find and treat it as an anomaly until some theory could explain how it got there.

 

But it hasn't happened yet.

 

In particular, I looked at the genetic evidence of evolution. The vestigial genes and pseudogenes, together with the specific mutations that constitute critical errors, lay out an almost pristine map of the evolutionary tree. I wrote "almost" because there are times when errors happen that, given the multitude of potential errors and the vast number of species, seem to jump across the tree. Most of the time, however, the specific mutations stick with the line of heredity and the pattern is clear despite an occasional "coincidence."

 

Anyway, that's why they focus on the "anecdotal evidence" with respect to science. They start with a conclusion and look for any bit of evidence, however anecdotal, to support their position.

 

Fortunately, there is enough evidence to show that while coincidences do happen, the patterns that show evolution are overwhelmingly supportive of descent with modification.

[lunaticheathen]

I started questioning around the same age, about 14, leaving the faith at 15. That's a very fragile age to basically lose your identity. I was committed to a psych ward for a while. I've battled depression for basically all my life. If Christianity isn't the root, it certainly didn't help at all. I still have a lot of anger towards christianity and the bible, so I'm likely a tad biased. But I can say that leaving christianity far FAR behind, while not easy, was the best thing I've ever done for my mental and spiritual state. I can safely say I'd rather rebel against that asshole god and burn rather than gut myself and bow to such a sadistic bastard. That may not describe you at all, but I think you'd be better off not worrying about pleasing some sky-bully.

I'm sorry you were so damaged by this sadistic faith, I know what that's like.

Myself, I've since started practicing my true beliefs, which are pagan in nature. That's probably not how your journey will go, but I'm still here to tell you to not be afraid to look for your own beliefs, no matter what they are, whether they contain one god, no gods, or many gods. It's your life, your soul, take it back!

[Guest confused idiot]

Dear Confused Idiot

 

It's funny you called yourself 'confused idiot' because the original meaning of 'idiot' was simply a layperson, in Attic Greek. These were people who didn't involve themselves with the Athenian political system. It was more a descriptor, not really an insult, although not being involved with politics was looked on as a bit zany and strange.

 

Now, I was a christian for a pretty long time. I've read the bible from cover to cover, and frankly, the old testament is truly appalling. What I am trying to say is that I read the bible critically, without trying to rationalise the appalling, sickening bits as 'gods will'. For want of a better word, I used what I refer to as my 'bullshit detector' when I read it. Critical literacy is a skill ANYONE can learn. It is asking the deeper questions, like "Does the writer have a vested interest? Does this really look like a fair presentation of both sides of the argument?" It is the skill that tells you that the advertisement for miracle wrinkle cream probably is exaggerating the qualities of that cream for their own financial gain. You can learn this skill. Once you learn critical literacy, you will find that when you read things, your mind will automatically challenge it and rebut arguments. It is a very useful skill to have, and from your posts, you are not dumb. There is obviously NOTHING wrong with your intellect.

 

Tricks that should set off your bullshit detector include the following.

(1) They paint the opposition as corrupt, for example scientists or the medical profession, in order to explain negative scientific results.

(2) They skirt around, or neglect to mention, opposing arguments or evidence, especially ones that are blatantly obvious.

(3) They don't back up their work with references -- at least a bibliography at the back of the book. If they don't do this, how do you know they aren't just making stuff up?

(4) They rely on testimonials and anecdotal evidence, rather than scientific facts.

(5) They make appeals to emotion, so that you feel, rather than think, about things. If someone does this, be skeptical. If their evidence was sound, they wouldn't have to distract you with feelings. Look for facts, not emotions.

 

Think critically about what you read, especially when you read apologetics. Scientists, on the whole, only present the facts, and some basic interpretations of the data, but you should still read their work with a critical eye. Use your common sense. You know Polio is a horrible disease, and you know Polio cases have gone down since immunisation was introduced, so there is probably a link between those two facts. Polio immunisation protects people against polio, despite what the anti vaccination people tell you. The bible is exactly the same. You know that virgins do not give birth (at least, not in our species) and you know what people would think if a person today said "I'm a virgin and I'm pregnant". Jesus was not a virgin birth. Perseus, Buddha, and Ghengis Khan were also all virgin births. It was a common ploy in ancient times to say that someone was born of a virgin, because it implied they were special. Nobody is born of a virgin in the human species, unless there is artificial insemination involved, and that is only a modern convenience.

 

Secondly, I think what you are experiencing is the fear of hell. You have been raised to fear hell. No doubt it scares the crap out of you. Realise that you are no different to a woman who has been beaten by her husband. She loves her husband and thinks he loves her, but he still beats the living daylights out of her, and she stays because she thinks he loves her. Once she is away from the situation, she can realise that he might love her, but he doesn't respect her enough to keep his fists to himself, and that isn't love. She is better off without him.

 

The threat of hell is like the threat of a wifebeating husband, and the further away you get from both, the clearer you will see things. Eventually you will see it for the fairy story it is.

 

I recommend you read some of the following books. Buy them on ebay. That way, nobody else needs to know what you're reading, and you can reread them at your leisure.

 

Richard Dawkins "The God Delusion". Read that one first. Others that explain evolution are "Climbing Mount Improbable" and "The Selfish Gene".

Christopher Hitchins "God is Not Great." Should also be read with "The God Delusion". It'll help you see things more clearly.

 

I had a great book called "Evolution and the myth of creationism" by Berra, I think it was, and it explained creationism and evolution side by side, debunking the creationist camp. It helped me understand evolution, and was pretty simple to read. It's not a huge tome, either.

 

It would also help to study a few other religions from a secular perspective. This helps you to realise that christianity is not the only worldview, and once you see how similar it is to some other traditions, it will lose a lot of it's power over you.

 

Good luck with your deconversion.

 

The reason I chose this username is because I know myself too well. Not because any people tell me I'm an idiot, not because my religious beliefs forced me to think that, but only because I know myself too well. For lack of a better term, I picked "confused idiot". Maybe "confused loser" would have been a better pick.

 

Thanks for the book recommendations. I definitely can't get them on eBay for certain reasons, but if I can do it secretly, I may check them out.

[Crazy Donna]

Mate, everyone feels like a loser sometimes. I know I do. Isn't it strange how the more you learn, the less you realise you know? I look back on my xtian life when I thought I had it all figured out, and now I realise I actually knew nothing. The more you realise about reality, the smaller and more insignificant you can feel, but somehow it makes you more deeply connected to the rest of the world, because you see others as other people, not in terms of 'us' and 'them' (christian and non-christian). I think it makes people more empathetic. I know, because I was an outcast for a lot of my life (even from the other church kids, can you believe) that now, if I see someone else getting a raw deal, it makes my blood boil.

 

If you can't get the books on Ebay, you can always try secondhand book stores. They may be able to order some books in for you. Even if you have to do a weekend day trip via public transport to another town and get them there, and then bring them home in the jackets of some other books so that nobody knows what you're reading, try that. You could try getting a post office box and having Ebay purchases mailed to there. They really helped me understand the holes in religion. Just take it slowly. Taking off the jesusgoggles is like eating a huge meal. You have to pace yourself. Take small bites at a time so you really digest what you are learning. I know what it's like to want to learn everything at once. It's like starving, and sometimes it feels like nothing will fill the need for knowledge.

 

The more you learn about biology and science, the easier it is to understand the natural world. I found this really undermined the grip christianity had on me, because I was able to put forward more convincing and realistic answers than 'goddidit' for natural phenomena. Dawkins is magnificent for this. He explains biology in laymans terms. I also found that debunking christianity and the bible helped as well.

 

If you are trying to deal with anxiety about hell, there's another book I can recommend. It's called "The Gift of Fear" by Gavin De Becker. It is one of the best books I have ever read. It's not about christianity or atheism, but it explains how fear works, and how to recognise whether it is real genuine fear, or just your brain manufacturing fear because it's bored. Another book, the Atheist Manifesto, by Michel Onfray, really helped me see the monotheistic religions as man made.

 

Hope things turn out okay

[JayL]

Obviously Christian life is not working for you. Have you considered stop going to church, stop reading the Bible, stop worrying about truth or falsity of Christian faith, and simply focusing on improving your life?

 

People need job skills to support themselves. Perhaps that should be your biggest concern: how to get a job, have stable income, and improve your life.

[★ Citsonga ★]

People need job skills to support themselves. Perhaps that should be your biggest concern: how to get a job, have stable income, and improve your life.

 

This is a great point. From my experience, though I have done ok career-wise, I am fairly confident that I could have done MUCH better if I hadn't been so thoroughly entrenched in christianity. I wasted a LOT of time on prayer, bible study, memorization, church stuff, etc. and my career took a backseat. I went into a field that didn't really interest me all that much, simply because it was only supposed to be a stepping stone until I got to the ministry I just "knew" I was "called" to. Had I known 20 years ago what I know now, I'm sure I could have constructed a better life for myself.

[Guest confused idiot]

Obviously Christian life is not working for you. Have you considered stop going to church, stop reading the Bible, stop worrying about truth or falsity of Christian faith, and simply focusing on improving your life?

 

People need job skills to support themselves. Perhaps that should be your biggest concern: how to get a job, have stable income, and improve your life.

 

Quitting church completely is not an option at this point. My parents will "make" me go. I don't, at the moment, read the Bible on a regular basis. Not at a devotional level anyway. You're right, not focusing as much on religion and trying to improve my life is what I need to do. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt. I've been trying to do that for a while now, but there's a problem with that. A person's religious beliefs will deeply influence every move they make. With my religion on hold, that puts my life on hold. I don't know "how" I should act. I don't know what direction to go in. I"m stuck in the middle. As long as my beliefs are on hold, my life will be on hold also. Which leaves me in a big problem. I'm stuck.

[★ Citsonga ★]

A person's religious beliefs will deeply influence every move they make. With my religion on hold, that puts my life on hold. I don't know "how" I should act. I don't know what direction to go in. I"m stuck in the middle. As long as my beliefs are on hold, my life will be on hold also. Which leaves me in a big problem. I'm stuck.

 

I feel for ya, man. I remember what it was like when I was in a similar situation. I felt like a rug had been yanked out from under me and I had nowhere to get a foothold. I didn't know where to turn or what to do.

 

As a note of encouragement, it should get better in time. It did for me and for many others on this board, so there's hope.

 

Good luck, and enjoy the journey ahead of you....

[wonder]

Quitting church completely is not an option at this point. My parents will "make" me go. I don't, at the moment, read the Bible on a regular basis. Not at a devotional level anyway. You're right, not focusing as much on religion and trying to improve my life is what I need to do. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt. I've been trying to do that for a while now, but there's a problem with that. A person's religious beliefs will deeply influence every move they make. With my religion on hold, that puts my life on hold. I don't know "how" I should act. I don't know what direction to go in. I"m stuck in the middle. As long as my beliefs are on hold, my life will be on hold also. Which leaves me in a big problem. I'm stuck.

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confused i was wondering how old you were or where you were in life. based on your above response, youre probably gonna have to fake it until you get on your own. let me ask you this, what denomination are you, catholic, protestant, jew, mormon etc. if you are catholic, i know that is a hell of a church, and depending on how programmed your family is, it is gonna be a real struggle.

 

and how deep do you believe? are you saved? what specifically is causing you depression.

[Guest confused idiot]

Quitting church completely is not an option at this point. My parents will "make" me go. I don't, at the moment, read the Bible on a regular basis. Not at a devotional level anyway. You're right, not focusing as much on religion and trying to improve my life is what I need to do. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt. I've been trying to do that for a while now, but there's a problem with that. A person's religious beliefs will deeply influence every move they make. With my religion on hold, that puts my life on hold. I don't know "how" I should act. I don't know what direction to go in. I"m stuck in the middle. As long as my beliefs are on hold, my life will be on hold also. Which leaves me in a big problem. I'm stuck.

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confused i was wondering how old you were or where you were in life. based on your above response, youre probably gonna have to fake it until you get on your own. let me ask you this, what denomination are you, catholic, protestant, jew, mormon etc. if you are catholic, i know that is a hell of a church, and depending on how programmed your family is, it is gonna be a real struggle.

 

and how deep do you believe? are you saved? what specifically is causing you depression.

 

 

Do you mean how old am I now, or how old was I when I became a Christian? I probably "got saved" around the age of seven, but I didn't really take it too seriously. I always had trouble doubting my salvation and all that, I "got saved" more than once. Despite all that, the time in my life where I seriously consider myself becoming a serious, dedicated Christian was probably at about 15. When I got serious with it all, that was where things started to fall apart. Right now I'm almost 18. I've always been in the southern Baptist denomination, but that's not what I base my beliefs on. When I got serious with all of it, I didn't really believe something just because the church told me that was how it was. I searched the Bible for myself and all of that, so, despite my denomination, I really don't consider myself a Baptist or anything like that. The thing is, my family never enforced any "legalism" or extremely harsh rules and regulations on me, they didn't program me to think like I do. I did that myself, which is pretty weird. I started doing a lot of reading about stuff online, that was one thing that really did it. As far as how deep I believe, if I'm saved, and things like that... I don't even know anymore. In the past, I believed VERY deep. I still believe, but not in the same way. Now, it's more like a "God, catch me, I'm going to fall" kind of thing. If salvation is a real thing that is actually obtainable, then I'm pretty sure I don't have it, meaning I'm not "saved". And if I'm not saved, that means it's either a complete lie and not real, or I just can't be saved for whatever reason. As far as what is specifically causing my depression.... I don't even know how to explain. It's my beliefs, my religion, my mindset, my worldview... Everything about it depresses me, angers me, confuses me, makes me want to destroy something. I'm not sure what I should believe either, because I find a lot of Christian arguments to be weak, as well as a lot of atheist arguments. No offense to anyone.

[wonder]

let me ask you this, what are the atheist arguments that are weak. name some things.

[Shyone]

I searched the Bible for myself and all of that, so, despite my denomination, I really don't consider myself a Baptist or anything like that.

 

 

This is the best way to understand your religion. Read what is written directly from the source.

 

Of course there are "weak arguments" on both sides. I would say, however, that the default position is atheism. We have nothing to prove; it is the ones making the claims that need to present whatever it is they have that makes them believe and, if not persuasive, consider why it is not.

 

Just a few hints: Consider that you learned your beliefs as a child from parents who believed and live in a place where most people believe as they do. What if you had been born in Pakistan or India? Or China? Why do those people believe something "different"?

 

Why did people "imagine" all of those "false gods" before the Hebrew religion? Why would anyone believe some crap about those invisible dieties who were so clearly imaginary? What is it about humans that allows them to be fooled so easily?

 

Why are some Christians so intent on "proving" that the Bible is scientific? What is it about science that challenges their beliefs, and does it really matter? Is the age of the earth or the "flood" so important that they are willing to lie, cheat and fool themselves in order to keep believing that the biblical myths (or "allegories") are real?

 

Anyway, reading the bible is a starting point.

[Guest confused idiot]

let me ask you this, what are the atheist arguments that are weak. name some things.

 

The whole "we don't know exactly how it got started but it somehow did and I'm not gonna worry about it" thing kind of gets me. I'm not saying anyone here is saying that, but some people do, no doubt. How could any living organism come from complete nothingness? I don't understand that. No matter how much I look at it, I don't understand it. One other thing that some people do is try way too hard to make the Bible contradict itself and come up with things that, in reality, do not contradict. I'm not even saying that there are no contradictions in the Bible, but I've looked at some lists of these contradictions before, and some of them are not contradictions at all.

 

I searched the Bible for myself and all of that, so, despite my denomination, I really don't consider myself a Baptist or anything like that.

 

 

This is the best way to understand your religion. Read what is written directly from the source.

 

Of course there are "weak arguments" on both sides. I would say, however, that the default position is atheism. We have nothing to prove; it is the ones making the claims that need to present whatever it is they have that makes them believe and, if not persuasive, consider why it is not.

 

Just a few hints: Consider that you learned your beliefs as a child from parents who believed and live in a place where most people believe as they do. What if you had been born in Pakistan or India? Or China? Why do those people believe something "different"?

 

Why did people "imagine" all of those "false gods" before the Hebrew religion? Why would anyone believe some crap about those invisible dieties who were so clearly imaginary? What is it about humans that allows them to be fooled so easily?

 

Why are some Christians so intent on "proving" that the Bible is scientific? What is it about science that challenges their beliefs, and does it really matter? Is the age of the earth or the "flood" so important that they are willing to lie, cheat and fool themselves in order to keep believing that the biblical myths (or "allegories") are real?

 

Anyway, reading the bible is a starting point.

 

I agree that the default position is definitely not Christianity. In other words, no one comes out of the womb with John 3:16 automatically embedded into their minds. But can you really say that people, by default, don't believe in some kind of creator?