Is It Really A Delusion?

[Antlerman]

Antlerman,

 

When a person constructs an imaginary invisible buddy (Jesus) to have a "relationship" with, which -- amazingly -- coinsides with their own specific desires and supposedly intervenes on their behalf -- is this not the very essence of deluding ones self?

 

--S.

If someone constructs a government to represent their ideals and creates a flag to symbolically embody this image of themselves... is that the very essence of 'deluding ones self'?

 

If you can say yes to that, then you can to anything else like that, from really pretty much anything in your life that is about ideals, hopes, aspirations, and beliefs beyond just a simple recognition of mundane facts. At this point, and to my point, the term "delusion" becomes meaningless and unproductive in conversation.

 

I don't consider religious beliefs anything on par with 'imaginary friends'. I'll just keep repeating this to the point that at some point it will make sense: it is categorically different. "imaginary friend" is at best a superficial comparison, and as such, meaningless to real understanding. But it is great for rhetoric, if that's ones purpose. It's just not mine.

 

No, they are not "wrong" about the fairies, if it is not a question of empirical evidence, which is your criteria for everything, it seems.

Jeez, if you think fairies are real, you are wrong. There ain't no frickin' fairies in the real, sane, objective world. You may have your reasons for thinking they're real, but you're still wrong since fairies do not actually exist outside of a mental construct.

You're still not following me. You are seemingly stuck in imagine reality as one thing and one thing only. That's just not so with humans. No human as direct access to "reality", and at best we create frameworks of understanding. That "hard" reality that we think we have, or that we can have, is to me what I would consider much closer indeed to "delusional thinking". That is your leap of faith.

 

Again I said clearly "IF... it is not a question of empirical evidence," then it cannot be judged a delusional, using 'objective evidence' as the criteria. IF however, someone wants to argue irrationally, against evidence, that fairies are scientifically real (like Jesus actually walked on real water), then I'd say that they don't understand the nature of faith symbols, and aren't "deluded" per se, but more just ignorant and foolish. At worst, irrational if they insist against all evidence to the contrary - on that level of "believing" in them.

 

To think that anything that one can imagine is in some sense "real" seems a rather nonproductive process to me. Some things actually exist, others exist only in someone's mind.

Things that exist "only" in someone's mind countless times begin to exist in the physical world. How about that skyscraper you looked at downtown? That's pretty real, but at one point, long before the construction crews made it happen, it was just someones "delusion" in their mind.

 

Alright, lets give some other examples. Culture. Let's see you tell me what physical process creates that. It has no physical body you can touch, stick a probe into, check its electrical pulses, etc. It is purely in 'someone's mind'. In fact it's a shared 'purely in someone's mind' with a whole bunch of someone's minds. Now here's where it gets cool. As it is a *real* reality that people interact with, that the participate in, that influences them, that now in fact becomes objective reality. Subjective reality is not delusion, it is a part of the process of the interaction of the subject and objective aspects of our being.

 

You say I deny objective reality? Hardly. I say you deny subjective reality, and as such you deny *real* reality which is the mutual interactions of both creating the whole, and not just for the individual, but the entire universe. Now, using the criteria of not 'accepting reality' as the license to use the term delusional, wouldn't it be fair for me from this understanding of mine to call you delusional? (I won't however, for the same reasons I don't think anyone should use that term in these sorts of discussions).

 

I sense that you are trying to deny that there is an objective reality or that a reality based on misperceptions or incorrect information or wishful thinking is its equal. Reality vs perceived reality. Am I misreading something in the translation?

You sense incorrectly. I addressed this above, but I'll be happy to try to flesh it out more if it seems unclear still. So far, it seems you haven't quite followed it. In many regards its orienting to a different way of thinking about things. Its a way I find that gives a broader and deeper perspective that helps in understanding. It definitely works for both my rational mind and my sense of truth beyond just one system of thought.

[Jedah]

You know Kathlene, as nice of a Christian you are I will be blunt here.

 

Out of all the apologetic arguments, if I had to pick one to be the most idiotic and deprived of anything that could be consider intelligence or reason, it would have to be the whole "How dare you suggest that the billions of people who believe in Christ are delusional." shindig.

 

Why do I consider this the worst of all apologetic arguments?

 

It's quite simple really, because no matter what you believe you de-facto believe someone else is deluded. That is reality. Do you suggest the millions of Muslims, Hindu, Buddhists, etc. etc. are delusional? If you aren't a member of those religions then by default you do.

 

Do you really believe that billions people on this earth are delusional for not believing in Jesus?

 

And the icing on the cake here is that the shame is double on you. Because not only do you believe everyone else outside the christcircle is delusional, but to add injury to insult you also hold the belief that they deserve a form of eternal damnation because of their delusion.

 

Ironically, this comes down to a bible verse.

"And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not perceive the plank in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck that is in your eye,' when you yourself do not see the plank that is in your own eye? Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck that is in your brother's eye."

Luke 6:41-42 NKJV

 

 

Seriously now, Christians complaining about others considering beliefs to be delusional is like a Pirate giving lectures on why thievery is wrong. Pure madness.

[Thurisaz]

Late to this thread but anyway...:

 

Do you guys really believe that a billion people on this earth are delusional for believing in Jesus?

 

Why is it then, or how is it that people get saved and have the christian experience?

How do you explain that christians actually WANT to worship God and enjoy it and love him?

How do you explain the tears that flow when some people worship? How is it that I have had deep healing in my spirit by having emotional things broken in me by God?

 

Delusional? Well depends on how you define that word.

If anything that's not scientifically validated and found (probably) true but is believed anyway is a delusion then yes, christians are all delusional. And most other people are too, so we should better be shocked about those who only believe what's been validated (just kidding).

 

However, human perception and reasoning are far from perfect. Neither is human memory, while we're at it. And humans have damn much talent for self-deception.

 

Just two examples that cross my mind:

 

I have a very clear visual memory from my long-ago kindergarten days, of me looking down a corridor and one of the girls running my way. After all those years I still see her face absolutely clear before my mind's eye. The catch? My memory's picture shows her with a hairdo she never had before she was at least age 16. Trust your own memory, my arse.

 

For many years now, survivors of the murderous bombing of the city of Dresden by allied forces very late in WW2 told the horrific tales of not only their city going down in flames, but of allied fighters strafing the helpless survivors fleeing the inferno with their machine guns. That many people can't lie, right? Well, actually they can - although arguably "lie" is not the correct word here. Wherever those stories started, it has been proven in the meantime that no such strafing runs took place - but the people had heard those stories so often, over and over and over again, that they actually modified their own accounts to include them. Call it self-censorship if you want.

 

There are many more examples. Is there a Divine force (or maybe even several of them)? Maybe. The problem is, how would we ever know for sure? Science adheres to naturalism for a reason... namely that we have no way (yet?) to scientifically test the supernatural. Technically, supernatural forces are always a possibility, but this "always" makes them scientifically worthless.

 

Hope you get what I mean.

[Shyone]

Subjective reality is not delusion, it is a part of the process of the interaction of the subject and objective aspects of our being.

 

When there is no objective reality behind the idea, it can be a delusion.

 

Take your skyscrapter example. When a person "conceives" of a skyscraper, it is a concept, an idea, not a reality. Can you see the difference? No? Let me continue. If a man says there is a particular skyscraper in existence, and no one can see it, that is a delusion, not a concept, and not reality. There are no invisible buildings.

 

Take your government example. Governments are made of people, and they involve people. They don't exist where there are no people. Gods, according to those who believe, are supposed to exist where there are no people (or before there were people). Governments, churches and religions have powers because of the people that support them, and those powers do not exist independent of people. In days past, when being a heretic or atheist meant death, one could not deny the power of religion or the Church, but that doesn't speak to the existence of gods as living beings existing independent of humans.

 

I really think you believe that concepts are "real" in an objective sense. You think that gods are concepts, and that they exist. I agree that gods are ideas from humans, but there is nothing about gods that exists outside of human thought and/or activity. They do not exist independent of humans.

 

Independent of humans - that is the key.

 

Here's an interesting question: Does the World Trade Center exist?

 

To say it exists as a memory, or that it exists in pictures, does not mean that it physically exists, and one who says that it exists as a building outside of his head is deluded. This assumes that he is aware of the destruction of the twin towers. Ignorance, in this example, would suggest he is misinformed and/or unaware. If you take that person to New York city and he says he can see the towers, and he can point them out to you, then he is both delusional and experiencing visual hallucinations.

 

Please don't confuse or conflate concepts and organizations with invisible Beings. It plays into the hands of the people who want us to think that the existence of numbers and logic means that The God of the Old Testament watches us masturbate and messes with evolution. It is a misuse of the word Being if you call gods ideas.

 

Just because you see gods as ideas doesn't mean that Christians see gods as ideas. There is one Hell of a difference.

 

Gods as living entities that exist independently of human minds don't exist. Gods as ideas do. Just as characters in a fiction book exist as ideas. Don't confuse Sherlock Holmes with a real detective.

[skepticalme]

Ok folks, Im here again with a question or few.

 

Do you guys really believe that a billion people on this earth are delusional for believing in Jesus?

 

I wouldn't say dulusional. Maybe 'mislead' or 'wrong' would be a more apt description. Don't forget, there are billions of people who DO NOT except Jesus as the son of god. So no matter what billions of people ARE wrong.

 

Why is it then, or how is it that people get saved and have the christian experience?

How do you explain that christians actually WANT to worship God and enjoy it and love him?

How do you explain the tears that flow when some people worship?

 

Buddhist, Hindu and Islamic people all claim equally moving experiences. It appears to me that the experiences come from within the person rather than divine revelation.

 

How is it that I have had deep healing in my spirit by having emotional things broken in me by God?

 

I can not speak for your personal experiences nor do I wish to diminish them because they are a part of what makes you the unique individual that you are. I don't know the nature or the cause of the problems that you experienced and I would never ask you to share them because I respect your privacy. So all I can offer is this, "Is it possible that you fixed those problems on your own or with the help of friends/loved ones?" I'm sure we have all seen or heard of the technique that parents use to teach their children how to ride a bicycle. When they allow the child to believe that they are holding onto the bike but really are not. This works because the only real barrier that prevents the child from doing it on thier own is mental. Having an unseen trusted figure that always has their back gives them the courage and confidense to attempt something that they wouldn't have otherwise. And it works even if that figure isn't actually there. Just the belief that such a figure is there is enough. Now, is it possible that your belief that god was there watching your back(holding onto your bike), that gave you the courage and confidense to confront whatever problems you were facing and solve them on your own.

 

My feelings from this site is that people think christians are forced to worship god or whatever. How do you explain when that is not the case, that christians find pleasure in this and deep spiritual nourishment and want to show others how to find this peace too?

 

I don't think that christians are forced to worship god at all. I think that culture and peers force them to except a reality that is not true and they choose to worship based on that false premise.

 

If God is this big bad evil thing you guys make him out to be, why are there a hundreds other stories that counter that He is not? Who is right???

 

Neither are right. God is whatever you project onto him because he is not real.

 

Are you seriously saying that all christians are delusional and make these experiences up themselves? Are you saying that not only christians but three quarters of humanity that seek God and spiritual experiences are mentally ill?

 

Its not really god they seek, but peace from the burdens life places upon us and also peace with ones own mortallity. Many people believe that god and spiritual experiences are a path to that end. We all seek it though.

 

Ive been mulling this over in my head a lot in the past few days. There is either a spiritual world out there or there is not. I could never doubt the experiences I have had as mere coincidence, or something I made up. There are just too many of them, that have had positive effects, and some that No-One else has ever known about, but contributed to it in some way.

 

When I was a christian I had similar experiences. As an athiest I can look at them from a new perspective. At the time, I found certain meanings in those experiences because I was looking for those meanings and ignored any other possible meanings that I could have drawn from those same experiences. No experience carries an absolute meaning, only the meaning you take from it. Throughout history people have taken celestial events as omens of doom while others have taken the same event as an omen of good fortune. The event itself carries no meaning at all, only the meaning that people read into it, which is usually the meaning they were looking for at the time. We seek outside confirmation of what we believe to be true.

 

An interesting thought: If our experiences define us but the only meaning that we take from those experiences is meaning that we superimpose on them then, in a sense, are we defining ourselves?

 

Another question or thought I would like to put out there. Now please don't get me wrong, I know christians do wrong and do evil. What I would like to envisage, is what would our world look like if there was no religion in it whatsover. What would the world look like? just curious here. Would evil reign in it? well I guess you could say a lot of evil reigns in it already. Do christians fulfill a purpose on this earth, or are they just as normal and behave like your everyday Joe? I think the plan was that God would have a people that were filled with his spirit growing in holiness in Him, which by the way is a lifetime journey. People that would be salt of this earth and light for the darkness. Do christians fulfill this? Mmm not always. I think if anything we irritate and bug most of humanity with out narrowmindness. Is this the purpose of the light in the dark then that God had in mind...to show humanity a higher way of living?

 

What would the world be like without Christians? Not much different than it is now. People would spend their Sundays differently, science education would probably be better and the economy wouldn't get that Christmas boost. Aside form those and maybe a few others it would still be pretty much the same. People would still find reasons to kill each other and politics would still suck(though politicians would have to find a new set of ideals to campaign on but not live by).

 

Thats all I've got for now,

 

HAPPY EASTER!

[ebonileigh]

Forgive me if someone has already said this, how come Kathlene started the thread but has not made a comment or reply to anyone? I haven't read all of the posts, however, I did go through each page to see if she has made a response. Why do they do that?

[ebonileigh]

oh yes she said she would be away for easter but said she would stop by to see how the thread was going, she could have at least said something when doing so.

[Vigile]

After all this time we've discussed this over the years I still can't wrap my mind around this subjective reality/symbolism argument. If xianity, Islam, et al were just some form of spirituality, and no doubt it is for some, it might make some sense, but reality tells a very different story.

 

These religions widely produce a mentality that shuns science, that embraces a mentality that buys into jingoistic calls to war, that fights human rights, that causes believers to isolate themselves from what they consider the world and even causes them to sit in pious judgment of it, and a whole long ugly list of other things that they just wouldn't do if they weren't suffering from a delusion. And then on top of that it causes the believers themselves to suffer from needless guilt, make poor decisions, etc... that they wouldn't have to deal with were it not for a messed up paradigm. So while some get something positive from it the reality is the world and most believers would be better off without these paradigms. The evidence is this subjective reality of perception is a poor way to escape objective reality.

[Deva]

Do you guys really believe that a billion people on this earth are delusional for believing in Jesus?

 

I would not say that. I would not call it "delusion". It is conditioning of the mind.

 

Why is it then, or how is it that people get saved and have the christian experience?

 

A lot of it comes from being raised with it as a child. If your parents tell you something is true, a young child is inclined to believe it. Then it is a short step to manufacturing the appropriate salvation experience. The mind is an amazing thing. I don't really know about adult converts -- maybe they think God is going to get them out of a bad situation if they believe. Just guessing though.

 

How do you explain that christians actually WANT to worship God and enjoy it and love him?

 

Simple, they believe that God is going to give them something. I question how many really enjoy it and really love God. I suspect the numbers are few.

 

How do you explain the tears that flow when some people worship? How is it that I have had deep healing in my spirit by having emotional things broken in me by God?

 

Self pity trip? Some kind of emotional release sometimes happens when people are overwhelmed by circumstances and look to something outside of themselves to "save" them. It is not a big mystery.

 

My feelings from this site is that people think christians are forced to worship god or whatever. How do you explain when that is not the case, that christians find pleasure in this and deep spiritual nourishment and want to show others how to find this peace too? If God is this big bad evil thing you guys make him out to be, why are there a hundreds other stories that counter that He is not? Who is right???

 

I wouldn't say Christians are forced to worship. They are taught that it is the proper thing to do and then lay that burden upon themselves instead of taking the effort to find out if all of it or any of it is really true. That God is evil and bad comes out of the actions he does in the Bible. Peace is found by ignoring the bad stuff.

 

Ive been mulling this over in my head a lot in the past few days. There is either a spiritual world out there or there is not.

 

By "spiritual world" do you mean the supernatural? The word "spiritual" covers a lot of territory. I would not say there either is or is not.

 

What I would like to envisage, is what would our world look like if there was no religion in it whatsover. What would the world look like?

 

Maybe less divided into different camps all at war with each other to a greater or lesser degree? Maybe able to see each other as what we are - human beings - and not the "saved and lost"?

[Shyone]

Is a delusion determined by the number of people holding a particular belief?

 

If one person says that something exists that everyone else can clearly see doesn't exist, we call that delusion. But if one person can't see the emperor's new clothes and everyone else does, is that a delusion?

 

Is religion a protected delusion set of impossible and untrue beliefs? Does it matter what the religion is? Is there, in fact, any religious belief that we would declare delusional, even if held to be true by only one person?

 

Just how obviously false does a belief have to be in order to call it delusional? The deluded individual would hold his or her beliefs to be absolutely true (by definition), so strength of belief wouldn't matter. They would not necessarily examine their own beliefs to see if they were delusional - and if they did they would conclude that their beliefs are not delusional. That's what deluded people do.

 

It seems to me that there is a very fine line between being ignorant or misinformed and delusional. Let's say one person claims that there are tiny invisible spiders crawling on their skin that no one can see (by definition of invisible). This person tells another person about the tiny invisible spiders, and that other person starts to experience itching and believes it is due to the invisible spiders. Is only the first person deluded, both of them, or neither?

 

I know, I have lots of rhetorical questions. I have also had the experience of knowing lots of people with delusions. Mental illness is very common where I'm working now for a variety of reasons. When some of these people say "Jesus is inside me" they are not speaking metaphorically.

[Lanakila]

I see the idea that we unbelievers would think believers as delusional as argumentum ad populum turned around. Whether I think believers are delusional depends upon the believer and the beliefs.

 

I believe religion is bullshit.

[Antlerman]

Forgive me if someone has already said this, how come Kathlene started the thread but has not made a comment or reply to anyone? I haven't read all of the posts, however, I did go through each page to see if she has made a response. Why do they do that?

She stated early on that she would be away over Easter so she wouldn't reply until she was back.

[Sconnor]

Antlerman,

 

When a person constructs an imaginary invisible buddy (Jesus) to have a "relationship" with, which -- amazingly -- coinsides with their own specific desires and supposedly intervenes on their behalf -- is this not the very essence of deluding ones self?

 

If someone constructs a government to represent their ideals and creates a flag to symbolically embody this image of themselves... is that the very essence of 'deluding ones self'?

 

Antlerman,

 

I respect your insight and intelligence but I think you are off the mark.

 

I don't think that's a fair analogy.

 

We can actually go and watch our government in action. We can see actual people having debates and making laws.

 

We can't witness people interacting with Jesus, because he only "lives" in the confines of their imagination, where this conjured up character can be anything they imagine; anything they want him to be -- the prince of peace or a god warrior, the embodiment of humility or a motivational tool for monetary successes or an erotic lover as opposed to being pure and chaste, the lamb or a fearful god, all-loving or evil and vengeful and so on. These are examples of people deluding themselves by rationalizing that an imaginary character coinsides with their own idiosyncratic desires.

 

Additionally -- considering America's government -- the authority comes from a democratic process and the people, where as the deluded christians claim their authority comes from god.

 

I do abhor christians (or any religion) who uses the -- supposed voice of god -- as their own, giving them a bogus sense of authority to push ALL their polluted agendas -- that's deluded.

 

I don't consider religious beliefs anything on par with 'imaginary friends'. I'll just keep repeating this to the point that at some point it will make sense: it is categorically different. "imaginary friend" is at best a superficial comparison, and as such, meaningless to real understanding. But it is great for rhetoric, if that's ones purpose. It's just not mine.

 

I'm not generalizing that religion -- in the broader sense -- is delusional. I am however offering specific examples of how people delude themselves in certain key areas of their particular religion.

 

--S.

[Shyone]

I'm not generalizing that religion -- in the broader sense -- is delusional. I am however offering specific examples of how people delude themselves in certain key areas of their particular religion.

 

--S.

This, I think, is the wisest approach. Rather than condemn all believers as delusional (when they may be uninformed or misinformed), the term delusional should be reserved for those who meet stricter criteria for being delusional.

 

Like those who speak and/or act for God. Or those who give interpretations of scripture they think are inspired by the Holy Spirit (same thing basically). Or those who receive answers to their prayers. Or...

[Ouroboros]

I'm not generalizing that religion -- in the broader sense -- is delusional. I am however offering specific examples of how people delude themselves in certain key areas of their particular religion.

Very true. I must agree with this.

 

I don't think Deists or Theists are delusions, not really. They do not necessarily make their whole life circle around their little belief.

 

It's the kind of religious that take on rituals, magical traditions, symbols, icons, reality overriding beliefs, and all the kinds of stuff that just make them unwilling to accept real evidence when it contradicts their ingrown belief, that I would call a delusion, and unfortunately many religious people fall into this category. They believe they can pray over someone sick and a miracle should happen, but when the miracle is absent, they have five thousand excuses why it didn't happen. It won't change their view on praying, even if it fails every single day for a thousand years.

[Vixentrox]

I'm not generalizing that religion -- in the broader sense -- is delusional. I am however offering specific examples of how people delude themselves in certain key areas of their particular religion.

 

--S.

This, I think, is the wisest approach. Rather than condemn all believers as delusional (when they may be uninformed or misinformed), the term delusional should be reserved for those who meet stricter criteria for being delusional.

 

Like those who speak and/or act for God. Or those who give interpretations of scripture they think are inspired by the Holy Spirit (same thing basically). Or those who receive answers to their prayers. Or...

Or those that talk to invisible, magic boyfriends and have a "personal relationship" with him.

[Kathlene]

Wow guys, Im back and just waded through 6 pages of replies, lol.

Firstly thank you to everyone who gave input, I appreciated it.

Secondly, my apologies to everyone, I thought I would have a little internet access when I went away, but I had misheard it from the people I was with, so no internet for 4 days! oh wow....it nearly killed me, ack.

 

I would like to address a few points in here. I wrote this post not from any argumentative or apologist viewpoint. I wrote it because I genuinely wanted to hear some answers from you guys on what YOU thought of it all. Did you all believe it was a delusion? well I think the majority would be yes, and some viewed it a bit differently. I think some posters missed or skipped over the comment I made about it not just being christians, but others who had spiritual lives with God.

 

Others criticised the actual numbers I used...geez louise, I just pulled the number out of my head as an example. I have no idea how many christians there are in the world. I would actually assume that there would be more muslims in fact. When I post a thread I am immediately put in the suspicious pile as thought I have some sort of hidden agenda. Can't I just open up a discussion because I am interested in your view points and opinions? Yes I had a vague idea of what they would be, but I wanted to know why you held those opinions. I can't go through the entire thread and address every post. I do like the last few points that were made though, about this...

 

I'm not generalizing that religion -- in the broader sense -- is delusional. I am however offering specific examples of how people delude themselves in certain key areas of their particular religion.

from Sconnor.

 

Its good to think about that.

 

Other posters have queried on whether I am still christian or not. I think being on this site does my head in a lot of the time, but I still hold onto God in faith. I am not afraid to question and ask opinions or advice or look at my faith with honesty.

 

Anyway thankyou everyone.

[Caretaker]

I am a mathematics TA, and time and time again, I see so many undergraduates do rather unbelievable crap in their homework that makes me question why the heck they are in that particular class. So yes, I do question some people's sense of reality. If some people can't handle mathematical logic, how can I trust their reasoning in general?

[Vigile]

I don't think Deists or Theists are delusions, not really. They do not necessarily make their whole life circle around their little belief.

 

Agree. And those xians who just tick off Christian on the census form are much the same. It's the ones that think a cracker is a human body, that the earth is 6K yo, that one lie makes them a liar deserving of punishment, etc... that are deluded IMO.

[Ouroboros]

Agree. And those xians who just tick off Christian on the census form are much the same. It's the ones that think a cracker is a human body, that the earth is 6K yo, that one lie makes them a liar deserving of punishment, etc... that are deluded IMO.

Exactly.

 

I know people who just believe that there is a God, but it doesn't affect them more than just trying to be better people.

 

But then you have people (a majority of Christian believers IMO) who talk to invisible friends in hopes for an answer, who thinks these magical beings talk back through subtle voices in their heads or by having cars drive by with a bumper-sticker with some fitting message. These are the ones who thank God for saving one person from a plan crash, and then give excuses to why God didn't save the other 150 passengers. They are filling themselves with magical thinking and can't reason rationally about reality; hence, they're deluded.

[Mriana]

It's the ones that think a cracker is a human body

 

What? You mean a Cracker isn't that dude who holds the whip and tries to whip those who get out of line or aren't working hard enough?

[Shyone]

It's the ones that think a cracker is a human body

 

What? You mean a Cracker isn't that dude who holds the whip and tries to whip those who get out of line or aren't working hard enough?

I once joked that if transubstantiation were true, we could induce vomiting in a parishioner and clone Jesus from the vomit.

[Mriana]

It's the ones that think a cracker is a human body

 

What? You mean a Cracker isn't that dude who holds the whip and tries to whip those who get out of line or aren't working hard enough?

I once joked that if transubstantiation were true, we could induce vomiting in a parishioner and clone Jesus from the vomit.

 

That is funny. Not sure if you understood my joke or not, but that's OK. It wasn't quite as tasteful as a Communion wafer.

[Shyone]

It's the ones that think a cracker is a human body

 

What? You mean a Cracker isn't that dude who holds the whip and tries to whip those who get out of line or aren't working hard enough?

I once joked that if transubstantiation were true, we could induce vomiting in a parishioner and clone Jesus from the vomit.

 

That is funny. Not sure if you understood my joke or not, but that's OK. It wasn't quite as tasteful as a Communion wafer.

OOooooh, I missed that.

[ContraBardus]

Well, it could be argued that if 'transmutation' is true, then Jesus is cloned all over the world on a daily basis.

 

Which leaves me to wonder why they just don't clone a whole Jesus instead if little chunks of his body and a bit of his blood?

 

I mean, if they're going to make his body and blood just to eat them out of some sort of love, wouldn't it be better to just make a whole body for him and let him hang around and talk to them for a while?

 

Though, I'm not so sure he'd be very pleased with the part where everyone eats him afterwords.

 

Maybe that's why? Maybe someone did it once, and he got upset when the congregation insisted on eating him when they were finished, so he issued a secret command of 'though shalt not clone all of my ass at once again or else'.

 

Also, would it be appropriate to request light or dark meat? If not, why not?

 

What part of Jesus is it anyway? Is it the rump, perhaps ribs? What if it's organs, or an eye or something?

 

What exactly is the nutritional value of the Body of Christ and his Blood anyway? How many calories does it have, is there spiritual cholesterol, or perhaps even real cholesterol involved?

 

I'm to understand human flesh is a lot like pork. So in that sense, perhaps eating the Body of Christ at a service is the same thing as eating bacon, or ribs and maybe even dangerous for people with high cholesterol?

 

I also have to wonder what's the shelf life of the Body and Blood of Christ anyway? I mean, even chilled Blood doesn't keep very long before going bad. If they don't use it, does it require refrigeration or even freezing depending on how long it's going to sit for? Would salting or smoking make it last longer? Can you make 'Christ Jerky' out of it?

 

Transmutation leaves a lot of sanitary and health related issues. I mean seriously, shouldn't it be treated like any other meat product? I've certainly never seen any such facilities in any church I've been to.

 

Maybe we should get the health department involved here? I mean, food contamination and improper storage is a serious health concern after all. They should be reported if they're making the kinds of violations I think they are.