How Do You Feel For Others?

[mcpng]

As atheists not believing in an afterlife and such, how do you feel when you see your grandmother or someone old, living alone, husband passed away, living almost meaninglessly, though she might not think her life is meaningless...

 

or are you afraid that your older parents who are christians might find out christianity is just nonsense and suffer from depression, or be ridiculed, or even "god" forbid something like a heart attack...

[par4dcourse]

I must'a missed atheism 101. Was I supposed to become an uncaring asshole?

Lack of belief in god(s) doesn't affect my ability to care about people, and if that's the implication be prepared for blowback.

 

 

[Xerces]

All atheism is is an absence of belief in a god or gods. Everything else is up to the person.

If you could explain how an afterlife amplifies the meaning of the present i'd be more than happy to listen. But, I do not really see what the big deal is of believing in an afterlife, beyond the reason of comfort. Its like telling someone who has a horrendous disease that it isn't going to hurt, just to comfort them.

[oddbird1963]

The problem you describe is not really a theological or philosophical problem.

 

The plight of the old at the end of their life is a sociological and anthropological problem.

 

Some societies and even our society in times past honored the elderly. They did not find themselves without companionship and an honored place in the extended family or in the community.

 

How do I feel? I feel compassion. What else do you expect?

 

By the time people reach old age, they are pretty entrenched in any religious beliefs they have. As they approach highly advanced years, their "hope of heaven" is such that they talk about being ready for the Lord to take them home, not deconversion.

 

Depression in the elderly is a real problem. But not because of deconversion, typically. There are physiological issues that feed it and the relative isolation that our society puts them in what with the advent and progression beyond the industrial age.

 

If your question is "What do the atheist elderly do in their most advanced years?" I think they prob. understand that any pain and suffering will be gone. Their time on this earth will be over and they will be gone. Understanding this, they would no doubt try to make the most of their time in this world.

 

I'm not 100% sure what you are asking, but if it is, "What do atheists do in their old age when they are pretty much alone?" then I would say that is certainly an interesting question.

[Snowflake]

As atheists not believing in an afterlife and such, how do you feel when you see your grandmother or someone old, living alone, husband passed away, living almost meaninglessly, though she might not think her life is meaningless...

 

 

What are you asking? How do I feel about what? As a human being I felt compassion when I saw my grandmother in the nursing home. When I found out that my 90 year old grandmother was not able to visit her disabled daughter, whom she hadn't seen for 3 years because no one, not even her Christian sons would arrange the visit, I (the atheist) arranged to drive her from the nursing home, 90 miles to her daughters home so she could visit her daughter one last time before she died. This happened to be their last visit, too.

 

I have no idea what her Christian sons felt when they saw their mother or their disabled sister and knew that neither of them was physically able to travel on their own to see each other, but they apparently felt no moral obligation to either of them.

 

As to the am I afraid they might have a heart attack, I have no idea what you're saying there. I wish no ill on my family due to their Christian beliefs. If my mother gets comfort from her faith in her old age, then more power to her. The only time that I would take issue with it is if she were to try and impose it on me.

[StevoMuso]

As atheists not believing in an afterlife and such, how do you feel when you see your grandmother or someone old, living alone, husband passed away, living almost meaninglessly, though she might not think her life is meaningless...

When I realized that there was no afterlife, that the promise of Heaven-for-eternity-with-loved-ones had been removed, it multiplied my compassion for other people 10 times. It made me realize that any love, communication, care etc. I had to share with the people close to me HAD TO BE DONE DURING THIS LIFETIME. My empathy with all life forms, not just humans, increased too - and as an atheist now I feel that my awareness for the needs of others, and for the preservation of other life-forms in my environment, has increased substantially.

[Loren]

I must'a missed atheism 101. Was I supposed to become an uncaring asshole?

You did. It's a second term course. It was right there in the syllabus, you should have seen it.

 

It's why you were held back and not allowed to graduate.

[Yrth]

As atheists not believing in an afterlife and such, how do you feel when you see your grandmother or someone old, living alone, husband passed away, living almost meaninglessly, though she might not think her life is meaningless...

 

or are you afraid that your older parents who are christians might find out christianity is just nonsense and suffer from depression, or be ridiculed, or even "god" forbid something like a heart attack...

I actually am afraid of something like that. My grandmother is frail, and her mind is following. Why would I want to cause her needless suffering by arguing with her about her religion?

 

OTOH, adults like parents I hold to an adult standard, and they just have to handle it the best they can.

[ShallowByThyGame]

Noone who interacts with others lives a meaningless life. Our ancestors are part of who we are, and their lives echo in our actions.

[par4dcourse]

I must'a missed atheism 101. Was I supposed to become an uncaring asshole?

You did. It's a second term course. It was right there in the syllabus, you should have seen it.

 

It's why you were held back and not allowed to graduate.

 

Damn Oral Dawkins University

[mcpng]

Yikes, did I phrase it badly? I am an atheist, deconverted a year and half ago.

 

I just feel this wrenching inside of me when I think about people with seemingly old sad lives. Now, I don't mean they are pathetic. What i mean, is I perceive not out of any ill will but maybe just because of stereotypes that some old people, alone, will feel lonely and sad, and have nothing much to live for. Like my only remaining grandparent, who sometimes talks about the future as "when I die already". It's like they are just waiting to die. My other grandmother who passes away about a year ago was different. She was a taoist (she's Chinese too, so she was pretty much always a taoist) and she was still traveling and gambling 'til she died...probably happy.

 

But for the lonely types, I just can't accept this! It's one thing when it happens to you. It seems easier to bear. But when it's someone you feel compassion for...it's hard to come to terms with this crappy world.

 

And my 2 parents, almost 60, are christians. My dad is a pastor!

And sometimes I have these morbid worries that they will hear something about christianity not being true and they will get...in the worst case...a heart attack! I mean, now that I've deconverted, it's easy for me to see how fragile the christian argument is. The only thing that keeps it together is a lack of information, or a impenetrable mind in the face of information. In many respects, I want my parents to not believe in what we consider a delusion anymore...not build their lives about it. But, I'm afraid of what that would mean! I guess when I was at the Trevi fountain recently I should have wished they would just start being Sunday Christian hypocrites. lol. but of course, that would be like praying to Jesus for Greek-God believers to stop praying to whatever Greek God.

[Shyone]

 

And my 2 parents, almost 60, are christians. My dad is a pastor!

And sometimes I have these morbid worries that they will hear something about christianity not being true and they will get...in the worst case...a heart attack!

 

Ironically, when one deconverts, it is frequently a reaction of, "Well, what do you know about that!" Hardly heart attack inducing.

 

Consider that there are much worse traumas than deconverting: Death of a spouse, loss of general health, disease, cancer, and even financial stresses.

[Franko47]

 

 

And my 2 parents, almost 60, are christians. My dad is a pastor!

And sometimes I have these morbid worries that they will hear something about christianity not being true and they will get...in the worst case...a heart attack!

 

 

I wouldn't really worry about it. When you get to a ripe old age, you tend to have already considered all the probabilities, accepted that some of your beliefs might not be as true as you held to them when you were younger, and so forth. I remember my grandmother telling me one day that she, in recent years, although a regular church goer, had kind of started to suspect that it was all a fanciful dream. She was alright with it. Losing faith I think is harder in most cases on a younger person, or someone heavily involved with family and church and so on.

[OpheliaGinger]

We put meaning in our life, so I'd just tell them that as long as they have done well for others in life, that will be their legacy. My best example my family knows would be that no one is going to name their kid Shirley (after my maternal grandmother) because she was an utter bitch, but my sister plans on naming her future daughter Minnie Lou after our maternal great grandmother even though we have never met her all because our mother spoke so fondly of her.

[oddbird1963]

And sometimes I have these morbid worries that they will hear something about christianity not being true and they will get...in the worst case...a heart attack!

 

I understand that deconversion might be stressful, but your parents will have you to help them through it. Many of us had to go it alone and deal with the fears and stresses of deconversion without much of a support system.

 

As far as the heart attack scenario, remember that deconversion is often a gradual process where the realizations and adjustments in our beliefs change piecemeal. There is an "a-ha moment," but nothing so jarring and stressful as to be heart attack inducing, unless they already have a lot of health concerns.

 

In my opinion, if someone has lived a full life, has an established place in their community, has adequate retirement planning and health insurance and is capable of quietly living in non-belief so as not to alienate their more stubborn friends and family, then they will be fine.

[StevoMuso]

In my opinion, if someone has lived a full life, has an established place in their community, has adequate retirement planning and health insurance and is capable of quietly living in non-belief so as not to alienate their more stubborn friends and family, then they will be fine.

I agree. Not all atheists have to be evangelical about it. In fact, atheism does not define us in the way religion used to. Atheism is purely something you don't do - it's the absence of religion. What defines you as a person are other significant things in your life like your career, interests, hobbies, friends, family. In atheism there are no rituals, ceremonies and daily activities, and you are not commanded to "go into all the world" to de-convert the ignorant credulous.

 

The most significant change to your life as an atheist is that you will stop going to church every week and Bible study on Wednesday nights. For the rest - just continue to do the things that define you as a person and enjoy the wonder of being alive.

[Snowflake]

Yikes, did I phrase it badly? I am an atheist, deconverted a year and half ago.

Sorry, I totally misunderstood you. It is sad to see some elderly people, such as those in nursing homes, gut wrenchingly sad. My grandmother was relatively happy in the nursing home. Her mind was sharp, she made friends, participated in group activities and crafts. She found meaning for the end of her life in her own way, and when she became depressed and found her life to be meaningless, she was put on antidepressants and that helped her to keep her spirits up as well. Growing old doesn't have to mean living out your last years lonely and depressed and without purpose!

 

But for the lonely types, I just can't accept this! It's one thing when it happens to you. It seems easier to bear. But when it's someone you feel compassion for...it's hard to come to terms with this crappy world.

 

This is also something that you have some control over, if you are thinking of someone in particular? You can be their advocate, don't be afraid to speak up for your loved one and intervene if you think that they are depressed and it's not being treated. No one has to suffer from depression these days. For nursing homes, call the ombudsman with any concerns and someone will investigate. I think that there is a direct correlation between depression and loneliness. Organizations exist such as Little Brothers, Friends of the Elderly, also.

 

It's hard to imagine people you love suffering. But we aren't powerless, there are things that we can do. When I stopped believing in a god, I then knew that I had to actually do something and not just pray when something went wrong. And I have taken action a few times. Taking action was scary for me at first, but felt so much better than just wishing upon a star.

 

I mean, now that I've deconverted, it's easy for me to see how fragile the christian argument is. The only thing that keeps it together is a lack of information, or a impenetrable mind in the face of information. In many respects, I want my parents to not believe in what we consider a delusion anymore...not build their lives about it. But, I'm afraid of what that would mean!

 

I remember when that christian argument felt like an impenetrable fortress! The mind is a funny thing. I think your parents will be fine, where ever their path takes them. Just remember, they have a right to believe whatever they wish to believe, just as you do.

[ebonileigh]

Yikes, did I phrase it badly? I am an atheist, deconverted a year and half ago.

 

I just feel this wrenching inside of me when I think about people with seemingly old sad lives. Now, I don't mean they are pathetic. What i mean, is I perceive not out of any ill will but maybe just because of stereotypes that some old people, alone, will feel lonely and sad, and have nothing much to live for. Like my only remaining grandparent, who sometimes talks about the future as "when I die already". It's like they are just waiting to die. My other grandmother who passes away about a year ago was different. She was a taoist (she's Chinese too, so she was pretty much always a taoist) and she was still traveling and gambling 'til she died...probably happy.

 

But for the lonely types, I just can't accept this! It's one thing when it happens to you. It seems easier to bear. But when it's someone you feel compassion for...it's hard to come to terms with this crappy world.

 

And my 2 parents, almost 60, are christians. My dad is a pastor!

And sometimes I have these morbid worries that they will hear something about christianity not being true and they will get...in the worst case...a heart attack! I mean, now that I've deconverted, it's easy for me to see how fragile the christian argument is. The only thing that keeps it together is a lack of information, or a impenetrable mind in the face of information. In many respects, I want my parents to not believe in what we consider a delusion anymore...not build their lives about it. But, I'm afraid of what that would mean! I guess when I was at the Trevi fountain recently I should have wished they would just start being Sunday Christian hypocrites. lol. but of course, that would be like praying to Jesus for Greek-God believers to stop praying to whatever Greek God.

Don't worry about your parents having a heart attack. You say they're almost 60, well I deconverted a few years ago, I am now 60, and I didn't have a heart attack. 50,55,60 is definitely not old, neither is 65 or 70, the old or the elderly are now considered to be those in their 80's or 90's. I am sure that there are those out there who have deconverted as an elderly person.

[mwc]

We worry far too much about our "elderly." They're far from the fragile little china dolls a lot of people seem to think they are. They wouldn't have managed to become so elderly if this were the case.

 

mwc

[Vomit Comet]

As far as the heart attack scenario, remember that deconversion is often a gradual process where the realizations and adjustments in our beliefs change piecemeal. There is an "a-ha moment," but nothing so jarring and stressful as to be heart attack inducing, unless they already have a lot of health concerns.

 

Several here have worried that if their sweet 90 year old church lady grandmama found out they had deconverted, she would drop instantly dead of a heart attack.

[oddbird1963]

Several here have worried that if their sweet 90 year old church lady grandmama found out they had deconverted, she would drop instantly dead of a heart attack.

 

Well, coming from that perspective, I can understand the concern. But if they were undergoing such a change, grannie or peepaw would probably be fine from a cardiovascular perspective.