Exchristianity And Sexuality

[Shyone]

Everyone is different, but I'm married. I believe it is important to remain faithful, and I have a very strong sense of committment. I am a physician, so I work with people who are like-minded.

 

Quite frankly, I don't inquire into everyone's sexual behavior, morality of feelings. I mind my own business and let them mind theirs.

 

But why do you believe it is important to remain faithful and how did you get the strong sense of commitment? In my case I learned these two from my non-believing parents who had a experience a lot of pain in their early life and wanted to do things right with their kids. Unfortunately, I think faithfulness and commitment are considered worthless by today's moral standards and most people naturally buy into the lie that we can just be free agents indulging in hedonism.

If your understanding of human behavior is so limited, you need to live a little. I have been married for over 20 years, and I love my wife. We love our children. I do not want to endanger that relationship, and I do not want to see her hurt - by me or anyone else. We depend on one another for every goodness that we enjoy. How does one get a strong sense of committment? Different for different people; I look at my relationship and its value to me, and I decide it is worth more than my life. That's committment.

 

It appears you have an extremely judgemental attitude towards others, and regardless of what you may read, and even regardless of your own experiences, the vast majority of people still fall in love, dedicate their lives to others, and do the best they can to live up to the expectations of their family and friends.

 

Divorce is one measure of a lack of committment, but in reality people divorce for many reasons. In any case, rates of divorce are not dependent upon any religious belief:

 

Religion _________________________________________________% have been divorced

Jews ______________________________________________________30%

Born-again Christians _____________________________________27%

Other Christians __________________________________________24%

Atheists, Agnostics _______________________________________21%

[jradetzky]

If your understanding of human behavior is so limited, you need to live a little. I have been married for over 20 years, and I love my wife. We love our children. I do not want to endanger that relationship, and I do not want to see her hurt - by me or anyone else. We depend on one another for every goodness that we enjoy. How does one get a strong sense of committment? Different for different people; I look at my relationship and its value to me, and I decide it is worth more than my life. That's committment.

 

It appears you have an extremely judgemental attitude towards others, and regardless of what you may read, and even regardless of your own experiences, the vast majority of people still fall in love, dedicate their lives to others, and do the best they can to live up to the expectations of their family and friends.

Your position seems quite sensible. However, it seems to be extremely rare in this forum judging from other posts.

 

I just want to live a normal life like the one you mentioned, without having anything to do with extremists either in the shape of religious freaks or sexual perverts. However, most of the people I know belong to either of these two camps

[The-Captain]

I just want to live a normal life like the one you mentioned, without having anything to do with extremists either in the shape of religious freaks or sexual perverts. However, most of the people I know belong to either of these two camps

 

Where do you get off thinking that sex without some kind of long term commitment makes one a pervert

[jradetzky]

Where do you get off thinking that sex without some kind of long term commitment makes one a pervert

Whatever...

[CelticWhisper]

I, too, would like to know how sex without commitment makes one a pervert.

[jradetzky]

I, too, would like to know how sex without commitment makes one a pervert.

Okay then, let's look at the following three examples: a promiscuous individual, a gay, and a pedophile. Who is the sexual pervert here? Fifty years ago homosexuality was considered a sexual perversion/mental illness but now society has fully accepted it.

 

What about pedophilia? The social agreement is that it is a perversion and a crime. But I'm quite certain society will accept it as normal in a one hundred years or so. Progressive society, assertive and smart kids, you know.

 

My point is that it doesn't even make sense to talk about sexual perversion because there is no absolute standard, right? Moral relativism and a permissive society where anything goes depending on the changing times.

[Phanta]

Please don't tar us all with the same brush. Don't say "ALL" and refer to a large class of people.

Okay, then if you are not sexually immoral and no longer a Christian, what do you base your life philosophy on? And where do you get fellowship with like-minded people?

 

A sangha I sometimes attend, which follows the teachings of Zen monk Thich Nhat Hanh, recites and discusses the five mindfulness trainings. One of the five is a training on love:

 

True Love

Aware of the suffering caused by sexual misconduct, I am committed to cultivating responsibility and learning ways to protect the safety and integrity of individuals, couples, families, and society. Knowing that sexual desire is not love, and that sexual activity motivated by craving always harms myself as well as others, I am determined not to engage in sexual relations without true love and a deep, long-term commitment made known to my family and friends. I will do everything in my power to protect children from sexual abuse and to prevent couples and families from being broken by sexual misconduct. Seeing that body and mind are one, I am committed to learning appropriate ways to take care of my sexual energy and cultivating loving kindness, compassion, joy and inclusiveness – which are the four basic elements of true love – for my greater happiness and the greater happiness of others. Practicing true love, we know that we will continue beautifully into the future.

 

- The Five Mindfulness Trainings

 

Perhaps you would find satisfactory fellowship in a sangha branched from Tai Hanh's Plum Village International Sangha.

 

Phanta

[CelticWhisper]

My point is that it doesn't even make sense to talk about sexual perversion because there is no absolute standard, right?

 

Then why do you seem so concerned about "perverts, perverts, everywhere?"

 

I've had casual sex before. The no-strings-attached kind. I'm still good friends with the people involved and none of us were harmed in any way. Does this make me a pervert?

 

Regarding pedophilia, I doubt it will ever be seen as permissible in Western society due to the fact that irrespective of intellect, there are stages of social, emotional, and psychological maturity that are not reached until a certain point in the aging process (the exact age varies from person to person). Until those stages are reached, we consider a person unable to give truly informed consent and thus classify sexual relations between individuals on opposite sides of that threshold as non-consensual. 18 isn't a magic age, but it's one that we think is an acceptable point at which the vast majority of persons are mature enough to make educated decisions regarding their sexuality. The variance in age-of-consent laws in different regions, nations, and locales is proof positive of the uncertainty of the matter, but even so, I can think of very few that put the age of consent at much earlier than 15.

[Vigile]

Sex is just sex dude. I'm thinking you've never been laid. There's a quick cure for your repressed thinking patterns.

[YellowJacket]

laws against Pedophilia are fairly recent, in historical terms. A few hundred yrs ago, most major seats of civilization worldwide had child brothels.

 

I'm not sure why the OP sees us as moving towards acceptance these practices, when many places are installing more stringent laws to protect children or punish their rapists. Even 150 yrs ago, most children would have had no resource to report any sexual abuse against them unless their parents were very important/rich. Pedophilia isn't new, protective laws are.

 

And why are you linking Pedos in the same moral bracket as same-sex couples? The first relationship is predatory, the latter is between consenting adults, and no one's business.

 

I also find OPs admission of masturbating to porn ironic. The porn industry is brutal, and you are funding it. I know personally several people who's lives were nearly ruined by making a quick buck filming porn. The "salaries" are often paid out in drugs. Many of the "actresses" are kept doped up out of their minds while on set.

 

Is it the "moral" choice to pay to watch other people doing it? And the "immoral" choice to do it yourself privately with a willing partner?

 

I guess I don't even believe in the word "moral" anymore. What I find "immoral" is behavior that harms others.

[Vomit Comet]

Whatever...

 

You got issues, pal.

[Mothman]

As I mentioned, the only reason I still hang out with Christians is because I want to stay away from sexual freaks like you. Unfortunately, the world seems to be black and white: crazy bible banging Christians who don't sleep around vs atheistic sex freaks with no values. Hard choice.

Actually, one of the things about Jesus that really freaks me out is that he liked to hang out with prostitutes and criminals. That is a no no for me. And them somewhere I heard that if Jesus were alive today he would be hanging out with gays as well. That totally sucks.

 

I really think this guy is joking. It's too perfect not to be a parody.

[J.W.]

Has anyone who is an exchristian here experienced problems in their sex life after leaving the religion? I don't necessarily mean physical problems, but psychological; a little voice in the back of your head warning you that "if you have sex before marriage you'll (A. ruin your sexual experience with your future husband (B. commit a devious and evil sin and be damned (C. become a dirty slut or (D. regret this experience for the rest of your life and wish you had remained a virgin until marriage."

 

Since realizing that I needed to get out of the Catholic faith, I've been learning to be more independent and think for myself, live my life the way I want to. But what I've been taught in the church about sex before marriage still creeps into my head at the worst moments. I absolutely hate it. I'm trying not to be afraid of sexuality, of intimate touching, of nakedness, or of sex itself, but the word "DIRTY SIN" is sometimes yelled so loud in my mind it makes me stop. Now, I believe that two people who are in love and have sex is perfectly fine, but apparently old beliefs and teachings don't die easily.

 

I'm slowly getting over it and I'm learning more about love. I wanted to hear from any other people who may have had problems like this after their deconversion and if/how they got over it.

 

 

Nothing in the world wrong with sex, but in your new found freedom do not forget social and natural consequences. Just because its not wrong does not mean you will not pay for it. Try not to sleep with co-works or friends. Have fun, like most things you probably want to ease into it so you don't crash and burn-- that is just my approach anyway, but then again I was a manwhore before I was christian. So Im coming from the opposite spectrum. I couldn't help myself I liked the ladies.

[movingon]

Has anyone who is an exchristian here experienced problems in their sex life after leaving the religion? I don't necessarily mean physical problems, but psychological; a little voice in the back of your head warning you that "if you have sex before marriage you'll (A. ruin your sexual experience with your future husband (B. commit a devious and evil sin and be damned (C. become a dirty slut or (D. regret this experience for the rest of your life and wish you had remained a virgin until marriage."

 

Since realizing that I needed to get out of the Catholic faith, I've been learning to be more independent and think for myself, live my life the way I want to. But what I've been taught in the church about sex before marriage still creeps into my head at the worst moments. I absolutely hate it. I'm trying not to be afraid of sexuality, of intimate touching, of nakedness, or of sex itself, but the word "DIRTY SIN" is sometimes yelled so loud in my mind it makes me stop. Now, I believe that two people who are in love and have sex is perfectly fine, but apparently old beliefs and teachings don't die easily.

 

I'm slowly getting over it and I'm learning more about love. I wanted to hear from any other people who may have had problems like this after their deconversion and if/how they got over it.

 

 

Yeah, i deal with this a lot. I don't know how to get over it, or get past it. Advice is great. I'm going to be starting to see a counselor, maybe they'll have some master plan...

[TelevisionKiller]

I think one of the reasons why even the though of having sex was so scary for me as a teenager (and as a young adult) was because of a word attached to the issue: "pure". I always heard talks about sex from Catholics saying "stay pure" and referred to sex out of wedlock as a "mistake" and "sinful". So for me, I viewed sex as something EXTREMELY life changing, a HUGE decision that had to be made with extreme care, and that I had to abstain from it until I was married.

 

Luckily, I have a very loving and understanding boyfriend and he's helped me realize that having sex with the person you love, unmarried or married, is natural....

 

 

The only thing I have to be careful of now is that my Catholic parents back home don't find out...I'm so scared what they would say or do if they found out.

[TelevisionKiller]

One thing I forgot to add was that because of that word, "pure", I assumed that everyone who made the mistake of having premarital sex was somehow "dirty" or un-pure. So the thought of losing my virginity before marriage was a scary and unattractive thought. I had always thought that people who did that were doing something so wrong and so sinful.

[Kuroikaze]

Okay then, let's look at the following three examples: a promiscuous individual, a gay, and a pedophile. Who is the sexual pervert here? Fifty years ago homosexuality was considered a sexual perversion/mental illness but now society has fully accepted it.

 

What about pedophilia? The social agreement is that it is a perversion and a crime. But I'm quite certain society will accept it as normal in a one hundred years or so. Progressive society, assertive and smart kids, you know.

 

My point is that it doesn't even make sense to talk about sexual perversion because there is no absolute standard, right? Moral relativism and a permissive society where anything goes depending on the changing times.

 

Seriously? You believe this crap? Stop listening to Ann Coulter and get your head out of your ass.

 

Also, study some philosophy, moral relativism in no way advocates that ANYTHING goes.

[Searska]

So...let me get this straight.

 

Having lots of sex makes you impure/dirty/perverted. This leads to the conclusion that the sex itself is dirty.

 

And you're supposed to save this filthy act for the one you love? And ONLY the one you love? Because having sex outside of this format leads you to become...desensitized?

 

[Shyone]

So...let me get this straight.

 

Having lots of sex makes you impure/dirty/perverted. This leads to the conclusion that the sex itself is dirty.

 

And you're supposed to save this filthy act for the one you love? And ONLY the one you love? Because having sex outside of this format leads you to become...desensitized?

 

I think that this is one attitude that leads to sexual dysfunction within marriage. Having a sexually aggressive, horny wife/husband after years of careful celibacy and avoidance of sexual situations could really mess a person's mind up. If sex produces disgust, it won't change after marriage.

[Seeking]

Unfortunately, the world seems to be black and white: crazy bible banging Christians who don't sleep around vs atheistic sex freaks with no values. Hard choice.

 

Wow. Judgmental much? I'm an atheist. The only person I've ever had sex with is my husband, and we didn't have sex until our wedding night.

 

Think about that.

[Realist]

jradetzky wrote:

 

As I mentioned, the only reason I still hang out with Christians is because I want to stay away from sexual freaks like you. Unfortunately, the world seems to be black and white: crazy bible banging Christians who don't sleep around vs atheistic sex freaks with no values. Hard choice.

 

... I think the only thing this statement proves is the world is only black and white through YOUR eyes!

 

Maybe you should get out yourself in this world and find that out?

 

I know numerous atheists who are nothing like you state above and who work daily to further the plight of mankind, animals and the general well being of this planet! To say they have no values is a downright joke! The world is a bigger place than you obviously know. I think you need to get outside your 4 walls and explore it ... but with an open mind!

[Vomit Comet]

So for me, I viewed sex as something EXTREMELY life changing, a HUGE decision that had to be made with extreme care,

 

I was taught the same thing, and it really fucked me up. I blew a lot of great chances because of that. I truly believed that if I blew my virginity that the emotional and spiritual fallout would be absolutely horrific and that it would be the biggest regret I would ever have for the rest of my life.

 

Okay, and it doesn't end there. You were Catholic. I was a bat-shit Pentecostal. I believed that because I had "unresolved demonic repression" that if I fucked a girl, demons would enter her (through her cooter or something?) and drive her to madness and suicide. That's what kept me from taking the chance. I didn't want to become responsible for some poor girl becoming demon possessed.

 

Finally I couldn't take it any more and there was this girl who wanted to fuck me so I finally broke down. After it was all over, I was like "this is it?" It was so normal, there was no A-bomb of Shittiness that went off. I remember walking home with a spring in my step. "I finally feel like a normal man now." I had never felt more tranquil in my entire life. Fucking did more for my mental health than Jesus ever did. It was one of the things that made me realize that my faith was bullshit.

[Vomit Comet]

 

Seriously? You believe this crap? Stop listening to Ann Coulter and get your head out of your ass.

 

Ann Coulter an abstinence pusher? I always pegged her as being a big fan of the cock. Hell, I bet she's a screamer.

 

Five bucks says she fucked Bill Maher at least once.

[John09]

To the OP:

 

I was fortunate to have had premarital sex before becoming a christian. I remembered how good it was and what it was like, so it was not difficult for me embrace it again.

 

I suppose a person's view of sex depends on their ethical views. I believe that ethics involves the pursuit of activities that promote wellbeing to oneself and others, while seeking to avoid activities that promote harm and suffering to others. I believe that sex between two consenting adults is a wonderful, fun experience. Like any other behavior it should be done responsibly with the other person's wellbeing in mind. For me that means incorporating prophylactics and birth control.

 

Also, although I am heterosexual, I think it's great that others can enjoy sex with any gender they choose. Like most other behaviors, sex can be something that is purely fun and enjoyable to do with someone, as well as something that cultivates relational intimacy with others. The same goes with any social activity.

 

Keep evaluating your views and using your own reason and intelligence to examine and weigh out different perspectives on the matter. May you eventually find peace and clarity.

[Kathlene]

I, too, would like to know how sex without commitment makes one a pervert.

Okay then, let's look at the following three examples: a promiscuous individual, a gay, and a pedophile. Who is the sexual pervert here? Fifty years ago homosexuality was considered a sexual perversion/mental illness but now society has fully accepted it.

 

What about pedophilia? The social agreement is that it is a perversion and a crime. But I'm quite certain society will accept it as normal in a one hundred years or so. Progressive society, assertive and smart kids, you know.

 

My point is that it doesn't even make sense to talk about sexual perversion because there is no absolute standard, right? Moral relativism and a permissive society where anything goes depending on the changing times.

 

You are quite certain society will accept pedophilia in a hundred years????

So you think it would be quite acceptable to screw your own child is that what you are insinuating? that is too sick for words.

I think you are a form of troll in here.