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Goodbye Jesus

How To Tell Them


theva

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Hi everyone!

I've just joined this forum. Just a quick introduction: I'm a 26 year old living in Europe (my parents are American 'missionaries' and I've subsequently grown up outside of the USA most of my life, though subject to the very American style religious upbringing and small subculture here). My parents are obviously VERY religious, they both went to Bible college and have spent their entire lives dedicated to their religion.

 

I've had a hard time dealing with losing my faith. I'm finally at the stage where I 'know' with certainty I will never go back (a lot of the time I was trying to find my way back, searching for reasons to still believe, or to believe something, and not lose everything). Ah you all seem to understand. I'm amazed to find a community like this I'd never even considered there might be one. It's been great reading through a lot of the posts and seeing how many people can relate! Seriously great.

 

To get to the point of this post anyway...

 

I thought for a long time until very recently that I would never tell my parents that I'm not a Christian anymore.

 

So the problem goes, as usual... I don't want to hurt my parents.

 

I have one sister. She came out about being an atheist about 6 years ago maybe. This was before I had lost my faith.

 

It was so hard to see how much it hurt my mother. She cried constantly, properly crying her eyes out. It only stopped when a man in the church had a 'prophecy' when they were praying for her (my sister) and basically it was that she would return to God eventually and be a stronger Christian than before'. This was months after she told her. She was able to cope much better after that. I don't know how she'd have coped in the long run or what it would be like now if that hadn't happened. My mother still gets really down sometimes about it, she recently had a conversation about 'regrets' and how she wished this and that, and if if if... then I would be a 'stronger' Christian (it's obvious I'm not as 'strong' a Christian as my parents are, I don't go to Church) and my sister would not have 'rejected' God. (I wanted to reply saying 'She didn't reject anything she just doesn't believe, there's a difference' but that would be a bit suspect).

 

I don't know how to do this.

 

But I don't think not telling them is a long term option. I am constantly lying to them to keep up the facade. I don't feel like they know me. As well as that I have to hide large parts of my life from them. Such as being in a relationship (because the first thing they'd ask would be about his faith). If I ever plan to live my life, have a family, which I would like to do - they will find out. There are other reasons I think I need to tell them as well which I won't get into.

 

I feel really stuck. I know what they will think and how their attitude will change about me and how much it will hurt them because I've seen it with my sister. I could manage all of it except hurting my mother. I also know it will create a 'new' long term problem I will have to live with. I would rather live with the truth, and those problems than live and lie and sacrifice what I have been.

 

So I'm not sure what to do, how to approach it, or when to do it.

 

I've thought about 'easing' them in to the idea, starting by telling them I have 'doubts'. And gradually working up to it. I've also thought of writing them a letter but I know if I sent them a letter I would literally be panicing until I got a reply. I've also thought about saying it very casually like it was nothing, I'm not sure why but sometimes it seems this would be an easier way for them to hear it, like if I made a big deal out of it with a letter and what not it would just add to the affect of it being a big deal.

 

Sometimes I think they won't be suprised. Sometimes I think they'll be shocked. My sister has always been the rebellious outspoken one and I've been the complete opposite, never rebelling, always quiet and timid and well behaved. If my parents really suspected I wasn't a Christian they probably wouldn't share a lot of the things they do with me.

 

Anyway I think I'll leave it at that. I don't want to end up writing a book here.

 

Thanks in advance for replies. It's great just to put into words this issue I have. None of my friends can relate even remotely, they don't see how it can be such a huge deal. But none of them have been religious, or if so in a much more casual way (as is more common in this country... It's so different from America here.)

 

Anyway I said I was going to leave it at that.

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gee.. um. i really want to say dont tell them straight up. show them this letter first.

 

well maybe don't show them this one but i mean appraoch them like.... "mom , dad i got stuff on my mind that is SO hard to tell you. but i want to be sure that when i do it is clear and that we will listen to each other."

 

Then tell them how you feel they would react to "this information". They will think that behaviour is "not true" and will be set up to listen more responcibly,if they can see how much turmoil it causes you just to tell them something. They will want to be seen as supportive.

 

(also you will have scared them with the mysterious "this information" and changed their percpective when it turns out that you also struggled and could not belive anymore. They might be able to begin to see a familly pattern and be willing to investigate. Since your not dieing or gay.)

 

I imagine that getting past some of the shock emotion, and putting you in control of the conversation, and showing them your struggle and your love, might help them deal.

 

But as with all my confrontational advise, i advice you to get an few opnions on that. Most humans dont take to getting it all out there as well as i do.

 

izm

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I would also like to know if anyone has regreted telling their family/friends?

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I would also like to know if anyone has regreted telling their family/friends?

Tough question. My mother died before I deconverted, and my father died without my telling him (he wasn't that religious anyway, and I didn't want to even broach the subject).

 

I never told the people at any of the churches I had attended. I just moved.

 

I guess I'm a chicken.

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Hello and welcome!

 

People who are "hurt" because someone has come to different conclusions and beliefs than they are simply being manipulative. You have just as much right to be "hurt" that your parents are wallowing in the irrationality that you escaped from. I have a hard time with parental manipulation of their adult children. Went through it myself and I was gentle at first, but I got to where I just refused to take it anymore. I told my missionary father that we would just have to agree to disagree and if he ever started badgering me about my beliefs I would leave. I only had to do that once.

 

Good luck, and don't be ashamed of your beliefs or feel you have to justify them to anyone.

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I don't regret telling my folks. One christmas I refused to take communion, and they were upset...though they should have known I was not attending churches. My father was more upset, being a preacher's son. He gave me some apologetic books and made me promise to read them...a promise I broke but he never brought them up after that. He also said that when he was young he had doubted but when he had children he had returned to the church, so in some ways he understood and yet in others he will always probably expect me to return because that's what he did, though he didn't have the internet back then to support him.

 

They still didn't know 'what' I believed, only that I'd left the church or was struggling. Then a few years later I got engaged to a Wiccan. My wife wanted to come out of the broom closet to them(they adored her because they thought I'd never find someone lol), but we decided that I should explain my beliefs first (sometimes I'd still get sent a sermon on tape), so I wrote an email (xmas was approaching, and the previous year our father had given all his kids 'the science of god' and I had been upset but had kept quiet then, but mom was asking what we wanted so I had an opening to complain about the books). So I explained how I had studied many religions and perspectives and did not need their help in my spiritual life as I was a 'philosopher'...and while I was sure I would never join a church or organized faith of any kind, I was still the good kid they raised. Then my wife told her story about how being wiccan is not about animal sacrifice, which apparently they had been told. Since that email chain they have been pretty respectful to us, and we don't talk about religion. On the day before my wedding we had to tell my father we weren't going to have any public prayers in the ceremony, which I think upset him, but he is a good man and I think fears losing touch with his kids more than anything, so he did not make a scene and had a good time I think.

 

One thing to note...I am the youngest of 4. My eldest brother upset them once by living with a girlfriend before marriage. Their relationship has never really recovered...and they were sad and confused...over time they have actually learned to accept that they can't control their children, so I have had it easier than those who came before me, since once they lost a battle they didn't want to fight it again. So maybe your sister actually has made things easier for you by breaking the illusion that children will all be perfect copies of their parents.

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I suggest calm truth,explain that in your own heart and mind the "book" just is not real to you.It took along time for my family to resign themselves to the fact I was'nt a xian anymore. Things WILL change but that is living the truth not a "lie".Best wishes and stay strong in your choices.

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I just went through this myself last month! Since I live about 1000 miles from my parents, I sent them a letter via e-mail explaining my lack of belief. They were shocked and hurt, but they're learning to deal with it. I saw them about a week after I'd sent the e-mail, and we had a very long discussion in which they decided that I was just being stubborn and trying to "put God in a box". I gave up on trying to clarify, so they'll continue in their misperception for the time being.

 

I have no regrets about telling them.

 

Best of luck to you!

 

(My letter is posted on this thread.)

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People who are "hurt" because someone has come to different conclusions and beliefs than they are simply being manipulative. You have just as much right to be "hurt" that your parents are wallowing in the irrationality that you escaped from. I have a hard time with parental manipulation of their adult children. Went through it myself and I was gentle at first, but I got to where I just refused to take it anymore. I told my missionary father that we would just have to agree to disagree and if he ever started badgering me about my beliefs I would leave. I only had to do that once.

 

Good luck, and don't be ashamed of your beliefs or feel you have to justify them to anyone.

 

 

Thanks for all the replies.

 

florduh: I've always thought my mother was emotionally manipulative, apart from the whole religious side of things. The issue I have with saying that is the fact that she doesn't realise it. I know it doesn't change the facts, but it's very hard for me to stand up for myself when I know I'm hurting someone - regardless of if it's not my fault. I don't consider it her 'fault' either, we do the best we can with what we have and I've been in her shoes.

 

I have too much empathy and not enough self respect. I know it's her 'problem', but that doesn't make it any easier. I know what I should do I just find it so hard.

 

Seeking: I read the post about that and all the replies, it was one of the first posts I read on the forum actually. It's encouraging seeing that people can manage! I'm glad you didn't regret telling them. I keep having fears about 'what if...' and thinking I might regret it.

 

Shallow: You're right my sister probably has made it easier for me in some ways, even if I find it hard to face what I know will happen having seen it, I can't imagine being the first person to break the news.

 

She's also very different to me and shows no empathy with their point of view (whether she has some or not) which, on one hand makes it easier for her (she didn't seem to struggle with telling them like me), but also can come across as rude and/or uncaring to my parents. So it might go smoother in my case, if I can manage it. ie. might not offend my parents as much.

 

She's very much the 'fuck them it's their problem' type and I'm just the opposite.

 

Anyhow I still haven't decided the best approach. I could express myself much better with a letter but I would probably find it easier to tell them in person first. So I may do that. *cringe*

 

Again thanks for all the replies! This forum is great.

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but it's very hard for me to stand up for myself when I know I'm hurting someone

She is allowing, or even encouraging herself to be hurt. Perhaps you could explain to her how she is being manipulative. If she understands, perhaps she won't want to hurt you either. Maybe it's all about her and she doesn't care how you feel as long as you follow her orders. You won't know until you discuss how it bothers you.

 

If you don't get a few things straight with her, she will rule your life forever. If you do this thing, she'll be hurt. If you do that other, she'll be disappointed. And so on. It doesn't end with religion. What if you want to get a dog (for example) and she's afraid it's too much work, expense and responsibility and you'd be better off without a pet? She might be worried about you and be unhappy because you want something she considers "bad" for you? How far are you willing to go in bending to her demands and martyr complex?

 

I tried for decades to conform to the wishes of others who were always "hurt" or "disappointed" if I went against their wishes. It's no way to live.

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Seeking:

 

Wow! Your letter was awesome. I can't imagine how it could have been done any better. My advice to Theva would be to take your letter, change a couple dozen words to "make it her own," and send it.

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I chose to go the letter route with my mother (the strongest fundy in the family) and it worked well since it allowed me a chance to explain myself and set up boundries all at once without being interrupted.

 

I have ZERO regrets about telling my family - it has made my life so much easier, I hate lying, and being honest is much better for all of us. I'm sure they still pray, weep, whatever, but they haven't been too "in my face" about it.

 

I'm actually upset that my husband refuses to tell his family about his lack of belief (he's still a deist, but not christian in any way). I hate having to put on the facade, and just pretend that I agree with all their christian garbage because he doesn't want to confront them. It has made me realize that there are one of two things going on: a) he's not as tough as he likes to think he is and his family intimidates him more than he'd ever admit or B) he is still harboring feelings for the religion.

 

I'm inclined to think it's a), but it really annoys me when he then goes on to me about needing to stand up to my mother (which I have improved on greatly since my deconversion), but he can't talk to his family about his own beliefs...okay, sorry, off topic, rant off!

 

To your question, it's not going to be easy, but IMO unless your parents are on their death beds, tell them and at least live an honest life rather than a lie.

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Thanks for the replies again.

 

florduh:

I don't think it's accurate to say she rules my life exactly. I wouldn't not get a dog in that situation I just wouldn't tell her about it. That's how it is, if it would upset her she doesn't know about it. It's sort of 'avoiding' dealing with the problem I suppose, and now I'm in this situation where I don't really have that option anymore. I'm just epicly shit at doing what I need to do.

 

I'm working on it though. It's something I've been talking about with a psychotherapist. And yeah your advise about talking to my mother about it is good, I'll probably do that. Though figuring out what to say and how to say it is going to take some time.

 

Maybe I should deal with all of that as much as possible before 'coming out'.

 

 

wizened sage:

Yeah Seeking's letter was fantastic but it's nothing like how I would write. I'll need to start from scratch. Although using it as a reference guide might be helpful if Seeking doesn't mind :scratch:

 

 

 

HRDWarrior:

I do think I'll write them a letter for all of those reasons you mentioned, but I may still tell them initially in person.

 

Interesting what you said about your husband. When I was with my ex (ex bf that is), he knew I didn't want my parents to know I wasn't religious (they never knew we were together either) and he mentioned a few times that he thought I really *was* religious and that I was just too embarassed to admit it to him. That was when I was half way through my deconversion so he was half right heh. But yeah the whole thing sucks, it's not how I want to live. And asking other people to lie for you isn't great either and I've had to do that to a few people.

 

"tell them and at least live an honest life rather than a lie." ... yeah that's really it. :/

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I'm hurt and disappointed that you don't take my advice. Do you really want to hurt me?

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I'm hurt and disappointed that you don't take my advice. Do you really want to hurt me?

 

Yeah she's not like that. It's much more subtle and unintentional.

 

Oh and shush! That's not funny. :]

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I get "shushed" a lot.

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wizened sage:

Yeah Seeking's letter was fantastic but it's nothing like how I would write. I'll need to start from scratch. Although using it as a reference guide might be helpful if Seeking doesn't mind :scratch:

 

Use it all you want! One suggestion: Could you write your own letter and then present it to them in person? That way you'd be able to get your thoughts out in an organized, uninterrupted way, and yet you'd be there to answer their questions and address their concerns when they read it. :shrug:

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Use it all you want! One suggestion: Could you write your own letter and then present it to them in person? That way you'd be able to get your thoughts out in an organized, uninterrupted way, and yet you'd be there to answer their questions and address their concerns when they read it. :shrug:

 

 

That's a good idea. I'm not sure why I didn't think of that. I'll probably tell them, then hand them the letter and say 'here, I wrote you a letter to explain a few things better'. That is after the initial breaking loose of hell. *sigh*.

 

Thanks!

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I'm hurt and disappointed that you don't take my advice. Do you really want to hurt me?

 

Yeah she's not like that. It's much more subtle and unintentional.

 

Oh and shush! That's not funny. :]

He's just pretending to be Boy George.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Update:

 

Ok. After spending some time with my mother and thinking about what it would actually be like to tell her in person, when she's right there in the flesh, I've decided a letter is best.

 

I've worked on a sketchy start and would like some input. It's hard to see how I am coming across having revised it a million times (and it's still an incomplete first draft!). My approach was to get to the point straight away (I don't like the idea of them 'suspecting' and having a build up to bad news), to be considerate and to leave the 'explaining' and 'reasons' for my deconversion out (at least for the most part). And thanks Seeking - I've used a few ideas from your own letter!

 

 

Draft 1:

 

Dear Mom & Dad,

 

I have thought for a long time about how to tell you this and I've not come up with a satisfactory approach so I'm just going to say it. I am not a Christian. In fact, I consider myself an atheist-leaning agnostic.

 

This is very difficult for me to tell you. I don't want to hurt either of you, and for a long time I considered never telling you at all. However for various reasons I decided it was for the best, for everyone. I've had to lie to keep up the facade for quite some time and I have had to hide aspects of my life from you. I didn't want to do that anymore. I ultimately concluded that you can't truly know me, without knowing this fact about me. I don't want our relationship to be based on lies.

 

There are a few things I want to make clear. I am not 'rejecting' God, I simply don't believe there is a personal God anymore. If you are interested in learning how I came to believe this or have any questions for me I am more than happy to speak to you about everything. However I would ask that you respect my beliefs, I did not come to them lightly. I also ask that you avoid as much as possible, speaking emotionally. I simply can't handle it.

 

 

 

I don't want to leave it at that, I did like the ending of your letter Seeking, but I just don't have the same relationship with my parents so I'm not sure what I should say. Saying something like 'I love you' is not something I'm used to. It would feel uncomfortable to me, although perhaps I should say it anyway. It is of course true. To be honest even what I've writen feels uncomfortable, I'm having a difficult time finding a balance between being blunt and being 'caring'. While I care about my parents a lot it's just not something most of my family express. Open to suggestions.

 

I'm also not sure about that last paragraph. I want to tell them basically that I don't want them ringing me up on the phone crying and saying things like 'I blame myself, I'm sorry I've failed you' - which is something my mother would do (I suspect). I couldn't really handle that at all. I thought about telling them to take some time to adjust to the news before contacting me but then that seemed a bit presumptuous and bossy of me. I'm just worried about being put through a bit of emotional torture.

 

Anyway it's a first draft. Feel free to tear it apart.

 

Also, my mothers dad recently had a stroke and has been given a few months to live. I've no idea when I will be able to give them this letter now but it won't be for a long time. Very frustrating. I suppose it's lucky I didn't tell her just before that happened though.

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First of all, be proud. Your religious beliefs are deeply personal, and are actually nobody's business. So by telling your parents you are actually being very gracious.

 

Now, undoubtedly, your mother is going to be very upset. On one level this will be because she may actually believe that you are going to burn for eternity in hell. On another level, she is used to controlling you, and you're not letting her have her way, dammit! She is going to crack a tantrum. My mother is the same, which is why I have not told her I'm an atheist. I assume she will simply find out that I'm not religious when I have a secular wedding ceremony.

 

I think when you tell them, you need to make one thing extremely clear. Discussion of your religious beliefs, or lack thereof, are to be entirely off limits. This will give you some control over the situation. If they bring it up, leave immediately. The topic is off limits. They will soon learn that if they want you in their lives, they need to talk about something else. It will also protect you from your mother's manipulation. Any attempt to manipulate you (bawling her eyes out in your presence, praying for your salvation in your presence, etc) needs to be met with your immediate departure. This will reduce her capacity to control you. This is very important. You are NOT her captive audience. If she turns on the waterworks, you leave. If she tries to talk to you about religion, you leave. If she starts trying to coerce you back into christianity, and you just sit there and listen to her, you are giving her complete power over the relationship. You are an adult, not a child. She must treat you as an equal, or not speak to you at all. Disarm her by leaving whenever she starts trying to evangelise you. Just pick up your bag and keys, and go. Don't even say goodbye. She has been told the drill, so she should understand. You will probably only have to do this a few times before she gets the message. Any phone calls from your mother that start delving into the topic of your religious beliefs, or how she's 'failed you' and feels guilty, need to be ended immediately. Recognise the tools of manipulation. That is the terms of your relationship.

 

You're a nice person, an empathetic, kind person. That is exactly why you get screwed over, and I think you know it. It is VERY hard to break this pattern, and it took me a few years. Now I sometimes have to be firm with people, but my life is a lot better.

 

Learn some key phrases.

"I did not 'reject god', I stopped believing in god, just like I stopped believing in Santa Clause."

"You can not bully me/manipulate me/coerce me back into belief."

"My beliefs are personal. They are not your business."

 

Unleash the bitch within. I'm serious. This is one thing you absolutely must make a stand on. The truth can hurt you parents, but it's still the truth, and you should not have to live a lie around them, or deliberately withhold information from them for their comfort. If you have to walk on eggshells around someone (for example, not mentioning your partner, because they'd be critical) then that isn't a real relationship. That is just someone trying to control your life, and you having to go to unrealistic lengths to avoid their interference. If I told my parents I had a partner, (I am getting married this year) and they were critical of him without even meeting him, I would crack it. I wasn't always this assertive, I had to learn. It is an important skill and once you learn how to do it, you will find it gets easier.

 

I would not tell my parents a lie on their deathbed and say that I'd returned to christianity. I would not want the last thing I ever said to someone to be a lie. That would make me feel terrible.

 

I wouldn't write a letter, but that's just me. I'm terribly organised once I write down a few notes, and I would probably just go through each point in my head and tell them. You do what works for you. Be strong. You have the right to live your own life and be truthful to your own identity, and you shouldn't have to live a lie just to make your parents happy. I wouldn't sit them down and tell them either. I would just wait for it to naturally come up in conversation, but that's also just me.

 

Be assertive. You are entitled to your own opinions and values, and your parents, regardless of their status or beliefs, are not entitled to tell you what to believe, or try to make you feel guilty about your beliefs. If they try the "How did I fail you?" line, tell them outright that the question is a selfish attempt to make the situation all about them, and that if they think that you have stopped believing because of something they did/didn't do, they must have a pretty exaggerated idea of their own importance and power. The question really is pretty arrogant, and dismisses YOUR capacity to decide for YOURSELF what YOU believe. If they start telling you how you're wrong, or misguided, or any other bullshit, that devalues your opinion. It implies that they are wise and smart enough to decide what is best for you, and frankly, as an adult, that is wrong. You are the captain of your own life, not them. If they can't handle it, that is their problem. Cut off contact for a month and see if they treat you with respect.

 

Hope things run smoothly. Keep us informed about your progress.

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What the hell is it like being an American-style fundie in Europe?

 

My girlfriend, who's from Italy, knew exactly one girl who was one. She said this girl felt like an utter freak and wished that she could have been raised Catholic (which in Italy often doesn't mean very much) like everybody else. She said that most Italians were absolutely baffled by the idea of American fundyism, in the very rare occasions they were ever made aware of it.

 

Then I was in Prague. The Czech Republic might possibly be the most athiestic nation in the entire world. I walked by the headguarters of an evangelical outreach organization, just a little storefront place. I was like "holy shit... what must that be like?" I thought being a fundie here in Las Vegas was brutal.

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Crazy Donna:

Thank you so much for that reply! It was very encouraging and full of great advise. I've thought about your post for a while and I think it is the best approach, realistically. I will keep ye updated. :]

 

Vomit Comet:

"She said that most Italians were absolutely baffled by the idea of American fundyism, in the very rare occasions they were ever made aware of it."

 

Yeah that's about it. I was never very 'open' about being a fundy as I knew how it 'looked'. I thought all the fundy-talk and what not should have been changed in order to better 'fit in' here. The people who are actually from here and become that religious certainly don't normally adopt the same style of fundy-talk as the Americans who help to 'convert' them. Though to a degree sometimes. I died a little every time I was around that in public. But I still believed it 100%. Felt all special for being on the 'missions field'. lol. It's amazing I didn't de-convert sooner. Being in an atheist-friendly society where most people aren't very religious if at all is definitely an advantage. But I did spend 4 years in the states as an adolescent which I think set me back a lot so to speak :)

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