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Goodbye Jesus

Whaddyamean 'Fruit juice'!!???


brick

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A good friend of mine who is unfortunately under the spell of jebuz related to me that his parents are dead against the consumption of alcohol because it is un-christian.

 

"Huh" says me, "Please explain, my deluded chum."

 

"Well that whole 'water into wine' miracle was mistranslated...what they really meant was water into fruit juice."

 

Stutter.....MISTRANSLATED!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!

 

I checked the bible and it clearly states "WINE". That means alcohol, I should know, I worked in the brewing and vinting industry for seven years (btw, I can make hooch out of just about anything!)

 

How can anyone of reason actually believe that the bible might contain a "mistranslation". That is a notion with catastrophic implications! If one thing may be wrongly recorded then the whole body of work is suspect.

 

Following that line of thought, isn't it then possible that jebuz may have just been some guy who knew a few card tricks?

 

Ok now, biblelovin' theists, I call on you to reasonably defend you abstinance for religeously supported reasons.

 

I anxiously await your squirming. This should be good....

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"Well that whole 'water into wine' miracle was mistranslated...what they really meant was water into fruit juice."

AHAHA!! The only thing the bible says against drinking that I can recall, is that if you're a priest you shouldn't get drunk and flounder all over the church knocking over tables and vomitting.

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Ah, this has always been one of my favorite rationalizations! Baptists use grape juice in communion because drinking wine would be wrong, and the when the bible says wine, it doesn't really mean wine. But it is the divinely inspired word of god, literally true and correct as written. Except for the wine thing. Jesus drank wine, and blessed wine, and turned water into wine, but not really.

 

My question has always been this - if it wasn't really wine, then why are there references to people getting drunk on it?

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I remember my mom making juice at home when I grew up.

 

Sugar, boiling the fruits etc, and filtering. But the funny thing was that if you let it stand for a few months, it would get fermented, and actually easily make you drunk. So even fruitjuice becomes alcohol if you just wait.

 

In those times there were no fridges. Fruit juice didn't and could NOT exist. It would go sour and get fermented regardless of the intention was juice.

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Of course this will very on denomination. I don't know of any Catholics who believe the above.  However, a seventh day adventists will give you a load of crap and probably a baptist also.

 

To funny because doesn't Paul tell Timothy to mix in a little wine with his water?

 

Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
(I think that translates roughly to using booze for "Medicinal purposes".)

 

Of course he would have to have made wine (if there was any truth in the story); it was a wedding for gawd's sake, and wine was what the guests expected. He made the wine so I was told, for the sake of his mother's honour. If he had merely turned the water into grape juice, he would've been told by the guests to "Take that horse-piss elsewhere, and yourself besides!" He and his mother would have got the DFC in short. (Don't f'n come back!)

 

That is confirmed when the emcee says this:

They did so, 9and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
(From John 2, emphasis mine)

 

Now then you tee-totalling baptist christians, just what does the phrase "After the guests have had too much to drink" mean in this context? Grape juice doesn't make you drunk, but wine does, I'd have thought.

Casey

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Now then you tee-totalling baptist christians, just what does the phrase "After the guests have had too much to drink" mean in this context? Grape juice doesn't make you drunk, but wine does, I'd have thought.

Casey

 

They just had to had to pee really bad of course! :puke:

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You guys forgot the explanation that "wine was all they had to drink that wasn't contaminated and would make them sick back then."

 

;)

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So, a young monk is assigned to a monastery. When he arrives he is told that he will be busy as a transcriber. The first day at work with his transcription duties he is troubled. He asks the head monk (sorry, not catholic. don't know what they're called) "Father, I notice that we are transcribing documents not from the original scripts, but from copies of the originals." Head monk: "Yes." "But father, what if someone made an error when they transcribed from the original, the error will get carried on and no one will catch it."

 

The head monk went away to think about this problem. A few days later the young monk worried about the head monk went looking for him. After searching the monastery high and low he finally found the father in the catacombs below where they kept the originals weeping and wailing: "No!, no!, no! It can't be. It just can't!." "What is it father?" cried the young monk. The father replied: "It says CELEBRATE, not CELIBATE!"

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Good one vigile!

 

Time ticks along and still no temperate has rallied to defend their position...hummmmm......possibly indefensible then?

 

I'm not at all surprised; it is one of those aspects of devotion that requires blindness and rationalizations, which of course don't sound very compelling when said aloud!

 

I can't hear your squirming but I can feel it, my spineless friends.

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How can anyone of reason actually believe that the bible might contain a "mistranslation". That is a notion with catastrophic implications! If one thing may be wrongly recorded then the whole body of work is suspect.

 

Er...that concept was what started me on the doubting path.

 

You guys forgot the explanation that "wine was all they had to drink that wasn't contaminated and would make them sick back then."

 

So the wine would make them sick? Then why turn it into wine?

 

Or the "well, it was non-alcoholic wine, but they forgot to mention that."

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As a Christian I don't think it is wrong to drink wine or any kind of alcohol. So far from what I know, the bible does not say , "Thou shall not drink." Instead, it says to be cautious because it can lead to drunkeness. So the whole thing about grape juice is a load of crap. Wine is actually good for the heart, so let us drink.

 

Brian Dario

 

"Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

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Beer and wine is one of God's good gifts to mankind. So is Tobacco. I think I would be willing to consider weed one of those good gifts as well.

 

Trivia: Wine is in every book of the Bible except for Jonah.

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As a Christian I don't think it is wrong to drink wine or any kind of alcohol.  So far from what I know, the bible does not say , "Thou shall not drink."  Instead, it says to be cautious because it can lead to drunkeness.  So the whole thing about grape juice is a load of crap.  Wine is actually good for the heart, so let us drink.

 

Brian Dario

 

"Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die."

Amen to that!

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Beer and wine is one of God's good gifts to mankind. So is Tobacco. I think I would be willing to consider weed one of those good gifts as well.

 

Trivia: Wine is in every book of the Bible except for Jonah.

Finally some sensible Christians in our midst.

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  • 3 weeks later...
Er...that concept was what started me on the doubting path.

 

Sorry chum, I meant that to read anyone of reason and faith...(oops! oxymoron alert!!!!!!)

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I've heard this a time or two also from ultra-fundy churches. It takes some really creative interpretations of scripture to get to grape juice.

 

Luke 7:34 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard', a friend of tax collectors and sinners"

 

This verse is copied verbatim from Matthew also.

 

Drunkard. Grape juice. OK. WTF. Why not.

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Ok, this is weird cuz even in the most ultra-fundy church I attended, the reason given for the grape juice was not a mis-translation of scripture, but the scripture that talks about not causing a brother to stumble. It was reasoned that some among our midst might be recovering alcoholics and the taste of wine would send them spinning back into alcoholism. Hence, the grape juice, from which wine is derived. It was always considered a "close second" to the preferred wine.

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