In And Out Of Faith

[JayL]

Hello everyone,

 

I am glad to find this blog. Personally I have been 'in and out' of Christian faith a few times. In the first church I started to attend as a teenager, a Fundamentalist Baptist Church, I was told 'Don't burn bridges behind you' when I told them that I could not believe the Bible because I have no way to know its validity. Of course, in my emotion, that is what I was shouting to them. 'I am burning down the bridge!' LOL

 

Well, later in life I got into a major difficulty - being sick away from home and no one to help me. In my desperation, I prayed the sinner's prayer to God, hoping something would happen. Well, something miraculous did happen and I was back in a church, this time a Methodist church.

 

Several years later, I got feel burnt out in religious life and still unhappy, I stopped going to church and like many of you, I also experienced 'exhilaration' of being an atheist.

 

A few years later, I had another supernatural experience and I am now back in a Charismatic church and I am quite happy and stable as a Christian. ( My life is still not all that great but I love Jesus Christ and the Gospel message. )

 

 

The question I want to post here is this: Is it possible that 'Christian phase' and 'atheist phase' are all recurring theme in our attempt to understand human life and the world we live in?? That we should all keep an open mind and try to understand each other?

 

By the way, thanks for all these interesting deconversion testimonies. A few years back, I could have wrote them myself! Ok, not a few years but many years back - as I am in my 50's.

[Deva]

JayL,

 

The Testimonies section of the forum is not for people who are "quite happy and stable as a Christian." This post should be moved to the Lion's Den.

 

That aside, the notion of "keeping an open mind" cannot apply where there is Christian dogma involved. There is no open mind when one is stuck in a system where there is an absolute truth. I am all for trying to understand people, but I am betting most of us here have at least a rudimentary understanding of both Christianity and the definition of atheist.

 

What is the "exhilaration" of the Atheist?

 

You write as if there are only two phases - Christian or Atheist. Isn't that a rather narrow view? Aren't there more possibilities?

[JayL]

I understand. I guess this area is not for ongoing Christians. But I enjoyed reading testimonies. I will check out 'Lion's den'.

[Shyone]

Hello everyone,

Several years later, I got feel burnt out in religious life and still unhappy, I stopped going to church and like many of you, I also experienced 'exhilaration' of being an atheist.

 

As Deva pointed out, and you acknowledged, this Forum is not for Proselytizing or expounding on the benefits of religion. See you in the Lion's Den.

 

As for the above, There is a differernce between rejecting Christianity based on being "unhappy" and rejecting Christianity based on a thorough evaluation of biblical textual criticism, philosophy, science, ancient history and other disciplines. Rejecting for shallow reasons leads to persistent gullibility.

 

There are many reasons that people believe, and there are flaws in each of them. I recommend you watch

to see how multple factors must be considered before you understand that there is as much reason to believe in gods as in the tooth fairy.

[GraphicsGuy]

The question I want to post here is this: Is it possible that 'Christian phase' and 'atheist phase' are all recurring theme in our attempt to understand human life and the world we live in?? That we should all keep an open mind and try to understand each other?

 

The 'Christian phase' and 'atheist phase' as you put it are two sides of the same coin of life — although there are also varying degrees of these two extremes as well.

 

For sake of a wider field-of-view, let's call the "Christian phase" the "Spiritual phase". There is definitely more than one possible "truth" out there. Life is full of varying "truths".

 

Seeking that "middle-ground" between the two extremes and achieving balance is where the challenge is and where (I believe) happiness and satisfaction lies.

[JayL]

I watched the video you recommended. It was interesting but the young man sounded so depressed. In some ways, I felt sorry for him. Perhaps he would be happier back in church!

[Ouroboros]

Moved to the Lion's Den.

[JayL]

Thank you, Mark. That is the way I feel. It is not religion vs. atheism. We may never know the ultimate truth. I guess I am 'desperate' enough to be a pragmaticist in life. To me, Christianity works. And I am overall happy in it. But I do recognize myself in a number of honest and heartfelt testimonies here.

[Ouroboros]

Well, later in life I got into a major difficulty - being sick away from home and no one to help me. In my desperation, I prayed the sinner's prayer to God, hoping something would happen. Well, something miraculous did happen and I was back in a church, this time a Methodist church.

Unfortunately the Methodists are heretics, so having a belief in the Methodist version of Christianity will send you to Hell. Sorry.

 

Several years later, I got feel burnt out in religious life and still unhappy, I stopped going to church and like many of you, I also experienced 'exhilaration' of being an atheist.

??? You truly were an atheist, or did you just throw that out there as an effect?

 

Can you describe some of the 'exhilaration" you felt? What kind? What did you think? What was it that you were so exhilarated about?

 

A few years later, I had another supernatural experience and I am now back in a Charismatic church and I am quite happy and stable as a Christian. ( My life is still not all that great but I love Jesus Christ and the Gospel message. )

Ah. Good. You left the evil Methodists. But wait, you're in a Charismatic Church? They're heretics too! You're still going to Hell.

 

The question I want to post here is this: Is it possible that 'Christian phase' and 'atheist phase' are all recurring theme in our attempt to understand human life and the world we live in?? That we should all keep an open mind and try to understand each other?

Possible. It could be that you're in a phase right now, and later on in life you'll realize how foolish it all was.

 

By the way, thanks for all these interesting deconversion testimonies. A few years back, I could have wrote them myself! Ok, not a few years but many years back - as I am in my 50's.

Sure you could have.

 

I was a Christian for 30 years, and a member of a Charismatic Church. I'm close to my 50's.

 

A few years ago, I decided to de-convert and become an atheist because of all the perks. So I told Jesus, who obviously exists, to take a hike. And he did. So now I hate God, and I love to sin...

 

No wait, that's how Christians describe our de-conversion. It wasn't like that at all.

 

I'm glad that you had your special miracle from God (which he denies most everyone else), just so he could make sure you would go to Heaven. I wonder though, why couldn't you believe without a miracle? Supposedly, that's how it's should be done. Belief without miracles since miracles can't convert anyone. So how come it converted you? I shouldn't have. Miracles, I'm told, won't convince anyone about God's existence. So how come it did that to you?

 

Furthermore, if it could re-convert you, then why doesn't God do this to other people... like me. I have something in my life, if fixed miraculously, would most definitely convince me of a higher power. No doubt. Seriously. This thing is on the level kind.

 

So what about it? Can your God do it?

[florduh]

Hmmm. Never a True Anything, apparently.

[Deva]

Thank you, Mark. That is the way I feel. It is not religion vs. atheism. We may never know the ultimate truth. I guess I am 'desperate' enough to be a pragmaticist in life. To me, Christianity works. And I am overall happy in it. But I do recognize myself in a number of honest and heartfelt testimonies here.

 

I am afraid Christianity provides an ultimate truth if you take it seriously. It claims to provide all the answers.

[centauri]

...A few years later, I had another supernatural experience and I am now back in a Charismatic church and I am quite happy and stable as a Christian. ( My life is still not all that great but I love Jesus Christ and the Gospel message. )

When I read things like this, I see an affliction which I call "the Jesus fetish".

Two of the things that you say you love, I now find repulsive.

I don't know what "Jesus Christ" actually means because it's a man-made title for an object of worship that varies from sect to sect.

I do not find anything particularly enchanting about the character "Jesus of Nazareth" as depicted by the Gospels, nor do I find the message to be enlightened, instead being brutally repressive.

For me, it was the discovery that it's an ultimatum based on fear, and not a fluffy doctrine of love, that soured the initial intoxication that was felt by thinking I was aligning myself with a noble and righteous being.

[florduh]

When I read things like this, I see an affliction which I call "the Jesus fetish".

I think that's a spot-on moniker for the syndrome.

 

When faced with a crisis many seem to turn to (or back to) the most familiar superstition. Around these parts, that's usually the Jesus myth. Sad that some who know better still choose the comfort of the imagination rather than deal with reality.

[oddbird1963]

The question I want to post here is this: Is it possible that 'Christian phase' and 'atheist phase' are all recurring theme in our attempt to understand human life and the world we live in?? That we should all keep an open mind and try to understand each other?

 

I think the answer to both questions is "yes." However, that is a position that you don't arrive at by following closely the doctrines of Fundamentalist and most Charismatic churches . I mean if a member of one of those churches has such an attitude about life, it comes from outside that church's worldview and belief system, often in spite of it.

[oddbird1963]

I watched the video you recommended. It was interesting but the young man sounded so depressed. In some ways, I felt sorry for him. Perhaps he would be happier back in church!

Deconversion can be a depressing experience. But the narrator didn't strike me as particularly depressed as he was reading it.

 

But what makes you so sure he would be happy back in church, especially since the people in his church weren't particularly interested in things like facts, truth, evidence or reason?

 

If you are going to ask the question, "Is it possible that 'Christian phase' and 'atheist phase' are all recurring theme in our attempt to understand human life and the world we live in?" then surely you understand that "church" doesn't hold answers that satisfies everybody.

 

If church is just some place you run and hide whenever you face intellectual or emotional issues, then it is no wonder you have fluctuated back and forth so often.

 

Evid3nc3 went through some tough transitions in his search for truth. But he stuck with the process despite the unpleasant realities he had to face. It sounds like he faced his questions and concerns with integrity and courage. I don't think "church" would bring him close to happiness. It had no answers for him any longer.

[lunaticheathen]

One major thing. Ok, there is a "spiritual phase" instead of a "christian phase", but because this site is EXchristian, I hope I still count as a Pagan. I left christianity, yes? I am an exchristian. I never was an atheist. So I never entered an "atheist" phase. But I reject christianity - and it's not a phase. I never went back. Not for a moment.

I didn't leave because I got "burned out." I left because I WENT INSANE. I tried to kill myself. Then I studied christianity, in order to become a better christian. Instead, I left the whole faith for the trash it is. It was damaging me.

I also reject the dualistic view it places on everything. It's not "either or", so why should I be forced into either the "atheist camp" or the "christian/spiritual" camp? I am spiritual, but I'm NOT christian.

In any case, I hope you do find what makes you happy, as we are all on our own journeys through life. Mine took me far away from christianity, and I don't see myself ever going back. I haven't for about 10 years. Christianity might have been a "phase", but my deconversion wasn't.

[par4dcourse]

So, is it looking like xian again tomorrow, or is every day a crap shoot?

[Hydroman74]

 

Well, something miraculous did happen and I was back in a church, this time a Methodist church.

What exactly was the miracle if you don't mind me asking?

 

 

A few years later, I had another supernatural experience and I am now back in a Charismatic church and I am quite happy and stable as a Christian.

And that supernatural experience would be.....? If you don't mind me asking...

 

Since you have some kind of connection with your god and miracles and such, do you mind praying for the children starving and dying of diseases in Africa?

[JayL]

<< nor do I find the message to be enlightened, instead being brutally repressive.

For me, it was the discovery that it's an ultimatum based on fear, and not a fluffy doctrine of love, that soured the initial intoxication that was felt by thinking I was aligning myself with a noble and righteous being. >>

 

 

Is the message 'brutally repressive'?? Well, Jesus did warn a lot about hell. And that is scary. But what if he is right? What if there is really the hell waiting for a lot of people? My rational stance is, if you are not sure, buy the insurance. And it turns out that the insurance - receiving salvation in Jesus - is essentially free. You don't have to do anything. Just accept the Gospel message about Jesus dying on the cross and resurrecting. And you are insured and you can sleep well at night without fear of death.

 

On the other hand, there is also so much righteous and beautiful about Jesus. He was a very good man no doubt. So learning about him is not at all objectionable. In fact, I love reading the Gospels. They are just so amazing. There is also the 'fluffy' side to Christian faith - and there is nothing wrong with that.

 

Anyhow, that is why I am still in 'Christian phase' and rather unlikely to change for now.

[JayL]

Evid3nc3 went through some tough transitions in his search for truth. But he stuck with the process despite the unpleasant realities he had to face. It sounds like he faced his questions and concerns with integrity and courage. I don't think "church" would bring him close to happiness. It had no answers for him any longer.

 

 

Maybe it is his slow reading that I misunderstood as symptoms of depression. But he did sound like someone who got disillusioned. For exmaple, suppose he was in love with a girl and he was 'in heaven'. He felt the deep connection with the girl and he 'lived' in that mutual bond of love. And then he goes to college and meets a professor who convinces him that it was all delusion. She was just acting on her hormone to reproduce her genes. He was in chemical bath inside his brain, etc. etc. After a while, he became convinced. He is now 'facing the truth with integrity'. Yet he misses that love experience which he now knows was an illusions. So he is depressed and sad.

 

I say, try going back to the girl. Perhaps the love was more real than professor's explanations.

[JayL]

<<But I reject christianity - and it's not a phase. I never went back. Not for a moment.

I didn't leave because I got "burned out." I left because I WENT INSANE. I tried to kill myself. Then I studied christianity, in order to become a better christian. Instead, I left the whole faith for the trash it is. It was damaging me. >>

 

 

During past 'Christian phase', yes I also experienced a lot of pain and frustrations. And that is why I stopped going to the church and went back into 'atheist' or 'denier' phase. But then a few years later, my life was in bad shape and I was contemplating suicide. I was pretty low as it can get. And guess what? I had a miraculous experience and I became a believer again. Except this time, I was afraid to join any church. I was a private Christian believer for 4 years, just thinking and learning. After having my faith grounded I joined a church and stayed. Going to church is not bad as a solid believer. But for many people, it CAN be a very mixed experience.

[JayL]

<< I think the answer to both questions is "yes." However, that is a position that you don't arrive at by following closely the doctrines of Fundamentalist and most Charismatic churches . I mean if a member of one of those churches has such an attitude about life, it comes from outside that church's worldview and belief system, often in spite of it. >>

 

 

Thank you, freethinker. I agree. But I bet many people inside the church harbor such thoughts. And, yes, I agree that some fundamentalist churches can be quite oppressive. Thank God we have the freedom to leave such church! The Founding Fathers made sure of that! Can you imagine having to attend a state sponsored church when you cannot stand their doctrine?

[JayL]

<<Since you have some kind of connection with your god and miracles and such, do you mind praying for the children starving and dying of diseases in Africa? >>

 

 

That is such an overwhelming situation. I can pray but I don't know how to deal with it. I will just go wiht the faith that God can somehow make it all work out. Or just Haiti. I gave money to Haiti relief. But I am afriad to go there myself. But I know other Christians who have and I admire their courage.

[par4dcourse]

Looks like an apologetic. Sounds like an apologetic. Smells like an ...... well, you get the idea. Same ole same ole.

[lunaticheathen]

During past 'Christian phase', yes I also experienced a lot of pain and frustrations. And that is why I stopped going to the church and went back into 'atheist' or 'denier' phase. But then a few years later, my life was in bad shape and I was contemplating suicide. I was pretty low as it can get.

Ok, so your suicide contemplation (not attempt, like mine) came outside of the church. I was in it. I attempted suicide (didn't just think about it, I TRIED TO DIE) because I was convinced I'd never be good enough for Jesus. I did it because of the deep anguish the dogma of christianity caused me. I wasn't just frustrated, I WANTED TO DIE. I felt BETTER when I left that poisonous belief.

And guess what? I had a miraculous experience and I became a believer again. Except this time, I was afraid to join any church. I was a private Christian believer for 4 years, just thinking and learning. After having my faith grounded I joined a church and stayed. Going to church is not bad as a solid believer. But for many people, it CAN be a very mixed experience.

Yes, quite the mixed experience, which is why a dualistic view of "in, and christian" or "out and atheist" fails to illustrate the human experience. It can't even capture the experience of people ON THIS FORUM.

I've had miraculous experiences myself, but none of them could be described at christian. None of them involved Jesus, Judeo-christian angels, bright lights, any of that standard Wal*Mart inspirational book aisle crap. I won't get into my own experiences, unless you insist and want me to message you. I don't want to thread-jack. But my beliefs are grounded in my own personal experiences. My mixed pagan beliefs aren't a phase, like some fucking fashion statement. I am not "either or," and I certainly am not just "frustrated" with christianity." I'm done. I am angry, with good reason, since it nearly killed me.